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percussion effects or just dry??

hi guys. i have a questions that we are or at least have been curious about.

this one is all about percussions. what i am interested in is how people use there perc samples (ex. wav, like vengeance).
i have found that a lot of the "loops" samples can sound strong and even reinveting for some songs (by taking an placing a lead percussion in the rhythms, which most of the time always sound good at first, until getting into more complex programming.)

so i have tried different approaches; the classic method of using a 1 measure loop as the main perc rhythm, which i find to be too unoriginal to let pass as proper work production although some of the vengeance loops can be very driving .... regardless, at that point you need to be the judge. using sampled loops is quite exceptable from what i have noticed. what i think it comes down to for me is if a loop is gonna in a justifiable amount or even (and which in most cases can cut down the time of making percs, which leaves time to get right to the melodies and arranging
never the less. the part i am most curious on is; what kind of effects do you put on your perc when trying to add flavour and originality. i have been trying lite delay on shakers and even hihats, as well as reverb on dominating back ground perc sounds. even still i hear effects in other song which i can't quite place or even begin to recreate for my own productions.

So in this thread i would like to see some percussion, effect tips shared in this one.

i think we could all benefit on this one since ... (while i think that the drums are the most important part of a song [ultimatly it is what moves a listener and causes you to dance], and make an average low level track, it into one that has potential to move a floor. It REALLY IS all about the drums and bassline... melodies are hooks, like with pop songs, it gives the listener something to remember and hum along to (songs like this can be your best and most rememberable songs.)

next and very important step is; background sound and effects (yes i know i'm kind of chamging the topic) although i feel the 2 effects serve to fit each other in aharmony. It gives vast arrays of sound which can be heard more in depth everytime listened to which is always VERY important but often over looked. background sound & effects are ment to keep the listener from ever being bored and ultimatly add energy to a song with out clutering it with melodies (which can sound very ametuer). Enough background sounds that takes a few listens to hear the full array of what is really being presented to the listener. i think a maybe not so simple part of the production that way offen get over looked. is back ground effects/soundscapes, and percussions.

but just perc samples or do you do more to them to get a totally original sound. like i said i feel that the drums and sub bass are the most important part of a song beacuase that is what gets played and pushed across the loudest. agree, disagree?. Your thoughts are more the welcome, i learn much from others inputs and experiences.

as always, thank you again, much appreciated

first of all, and i know i'm gonna get some static from all the loopers out there... but try to write your own percussion parts... it's far better than using some wack ass canned loop (even though it takes longer).

i've found a GREAT tool for making percussion pop... it's avox punch (supposed to be a tool for vocals heh). it's great, if used in moderation. also i use waves doubler 4 sometimes on percussion. keep in mind that with reverb on percussion that you don't want a huge hall type of verb, cuz it'll take most of the punch out of the sounds. a short release reverb, imo, sounds best on percussion. and don't be afraid to do radical eq stuff with the sounds or pitch them, cuz you can do this stuff.

just be creative, and try everything... you'll be glad you did.

david

quote:

Originally posted by davidbuhau first of all, and i know i'm gonna get some static from all the loopers out there... but try to write your own percussion parts... it's far better than using some wack ass canned loop (even though it takes longer). i've found a GREAT tool for making percussion pop... it's avox punch (supposed to be a tool for vocals heh). it's great, if used in moderation. also i use waves doubler 4 sometimes on percussion. keep in mind that with reverb on percussion that you don't want a huge hall type of verb, cuz it'll take most of the punch out of the sounds. a short release reverb, imo, sounds best on percussion. and don't be afraid to do radical eq stuff with the sounds or pitch them, cuz you can do this stuff. just be creative, and try everything... you'll be glad you did. david

i don't see how you could get static from loopers. making your own loops i feel is (in most cases anyway) way better, although it way take longer.
the problem i seem to run into with making my own loops is that i want certain percs to play when i want others on mute (so it always seems best to have each sample on its on channel.) and since arrenging seems to be in the in a constante or last phase of production it is alway tough to make a loop and stick to it. so if i ever get to the piont where a perc is sitting out of place EQ wise i always have the flexability of going back and changing it. unlike if i where to make the early desicion of joining loops to make one perc loop
this method though can result is so serius dpu rates (mostly well into the red zone for me. which meens that pretty much the cap on how far i can go on working on a song.

regardless though of this post we have still not shared any perc effects, which this thread is ultimatly about

DEFO MAKE YOUR OWN LOOPS ! ! ! !

Leave some hits dry if you want them prominent, add fx to certain hits and automate over a few bars, export, effect, export again, it doesnt matter, if it sounds good it is good.

Add some swing, try things that are a bit different, the world is your oyster . . . . . .

quote:

Originally posted by Ry Thomas DEFO MAKE YOUR OWN LOOPS ! ! ! ! Leave some hits dry if you want them prominent, add fx to certain hits and automate over a few bars, export, effect, export again, it doesnt matter, if it sounds good it is good. Add some swing, try things that are a bit different, the world is your oyster . . . . . .

i appreciate the response. but i kinda of think that the topic is not being upheld.

and that is, tech for percussion. do you just programm samples or do you try and make or own sounds with the given samples. and if so how?.

i already stated that i will use delay on some percs (ex. bongos..) i dont think you can go wrong with that combo.

regardless i have heard a lot of interesting sounds and effects that i beleive where built with just perc samples and some effects with automation.

a classic and rather simple ex. is the clap with long decay reverb and side chain on it. having the clap hit on the first note of the measure is kinda like an alternet to having a crash cycmbal. this was (and still can be ) a popular effect in '05. ["evole-safe to dream(thrillseekers remix)] i'm trying to think of other effects at the moment, which i will post when they come to me later.
i guess another obvious one is delay on the crash cycmbal. really that one can work with a verity of rythms. and these might be wrong... i'm going from memory... 1/4 or 1/3 give a nice effect. anything else with the cymbals can get cluttery.

(maybe a little off topic but still on the same page) lately i have been opening combi patches but reloading a differnt synth into it. that way i'm using the same set up but im also getting the chance to audtion new sounds which may work better.
typically i am not at the point where i can build the exact sound that i won't. so through a lot of experimenting i can offten find quality, original sounds to put in my production to add my own flavour and unique sound.
in the end i think that it is still a major very underestimated part of production. so sometimes spending time experimenting with percs and effects can lead to some nice results. or at least some new knowledge for your next track.

had you read my entire post, you would have seen that i did tell you a few things that do work for me when applying an effects chain to percussion...

david

Haven't read the whole thread but a few things you can try on hats and rides:

Phaser
Flanger
Chorus
Modulating the velocity, with velocity linked to either a filter or flanger or even just volume.
Obviously filtering and stuff

Just experiment, I have to admit I have trouble with drums too, maybe look at some of your favourite artists, stick the intro into your DAW and try to copy a MIDI off the shape of the wave.

i almost always put a light verb on all of my percussion (outside of my kick.. i like those dry) also i love distortion plugins for percs... makes them grittier and often gives hollow one shots some body. delay is great on hats and shakers.. some light chorus as well.

if you have ableton the grain delay is a great tool to mess around with. sometimes some very random settings with that can make your percussion sound awesome!

Often times during a build up i like to soak a particular part of the percussion in verb and draw out the decay/wet/and room size and then have it snap back to almost no wet.

filtering is a HUGE one of course.

Im spacing on some other techniques i use. A lot of times i like to experiment instead of going with my safe working procedures. And by the way to the original poster i agree with you... percussion is the most important part of the track. almost always Solid percussions = Solid production.

Fx are important to bring tension to dance music. It is the only thing we have to break the monotony . I am a whitenoise whore.

Hope these help!

Don't listen to these people who tell you not to use loops. Look, making your own loops, creative? YES. , but, Can using loop discs be creative also? YES. You just gotta know how to use them. For me its like sampling, I do not just take the loop and throw it in my track. Right now I am using a vst called SugarBytes Effectrix. It is a sequencer for effects and it is crazy. You can kill loops with that shit and turn them into your own monster and if you don't feel like spending the money on that, then there are many many other options, like, Glitch from Dblue, or fxpansion got some crazy loop manglers. I won't use much delay and reverb unless I know I am gonna try and sidechain and get some pumping effect. For me, usually I use Effectrix, Auto-pan, and sidechaining on my perc and thats it for effects, then I just mixdown. All I can say is, I love being creative and I also love loops and I think anybody that wants to use them, use them, just be creative with it, and don't always listen to what other people tell you, Listen to Your Pants! ---- I mean heart

You can use loops creatively. However when you are first starting out i recommend that you learn how to make your own loops. And then you can also add vengeance loops, sliced up.

As for effects, bit crushers are great, another program to check out is camelphat.

i don't care how many of you loopers out there wanna run your mouths about how great it is when SOMEBODY ELSE writes your rhythms, i'm just not gonna buy into it...

especially the beginner needs to write everything themselves... this teaches about rhythm, tone, and a host of other concepts.

loops = creatively dishonest (of course in the case of a remix, you have no choice, but then again, the original artist DOES GET CREDIT)

david

I write everything myslef for years now and i absolutely love doing my own thing.
Producing everything oneself is more difficult, but making it all yourself is just nice and satisfying.

I definitely say, add some nice FX to your percs, it spices them up.

I (almost) alway use a combination of single shots and loops. Nowadays, you hear almost every tune using a loopsample from the vengeance pack, that's really annoying, you'd go like, damn... I just used that loop to.

I find it difficult to get a percussion loop 'moving/flowing' with singleshots. That's where my loops jump in. I use them to get a certain percussion flow, and I make sure, there not to obvious in the track.

I also use the following trick alot (got it from the Ian Carey videos). Take a loop and throw it thru the Sonnox Dynamics, doing so, you can really tighten your loop.
Another thing (for Cubase users), is to take your loops and select 'event to part'. In that way you can easily cut up your loop (with hitpoints) en manipulate it the way you want.

quote:

Originally posted by Theran Another thing (for Cubase users), is to take your loops and select 'event to part'. In that way you can easily cut up your loop (with hitpoints) en manipulate it the way you want.

In FL, that job is nicely done by the Fruity Slicer. Pretty nice tool to chop up your loops into single shots and rearrange them. Its the way I work most often... take a Vengeance Essential Clubsounds drumloop and throw it into the slicer.

Heres a small tip if you didnt know it already.

If you want to maintain a certain groove of a loop but use a different arrangement, then go into the piano roll of the fruity slicer where it has arranged the several hits of your loop... Then choose piano roll options (the triangle in the upper left corner) -> file -> save score as. It saved your groove to a .fsc file.
after that load a new loop into your slicer or rearrange the sounds, again go into the piano roll options -> tools -> quantize. Then load the quantization you saved from your first loop (a .fsc file). FL will now automatically snap your sliced loop to the groove you saved before.
This works pretty well most of the time... and it is also an excellent technique if you have 2 drum loops that have nice sounds and sound great on their own, but when you play them together they just dont fit groove wise.

Sometimes I like to write percussion loops BEFORE the bass, just to make them fit and roll with the kick. This method usually gives me strong-rythm percussion loops.

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