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Forget Tearing Down The Gardiner...

Thank you David Miller.

Thank you for your leadership.
Thank you for your wisdom.
Thank you for hanging that broom over your desk, even if it never actually did anything.
Thank you for working to get guns out of the hands of those dangerous duck-hunters and target shooters.
Thank you for costing our cash-strapped city millions of dollars in penalties by cancelling the bridge to the Island airport.
Thank you for forcing a streetcar right-of-way on St. Clair Ave.

About that last part - I would like to ask that in the future, you ask your people to do thier fucking homework before locking us into another money-sucking infastructure boondoggle. Please.


SOURCE

quote:

St. Clair Streetcar Right Of Way In Jeopardy Wednesday June 18, 2008 CityNews.ca Staff The debates raged before it was even installed. Businesses complained it would cut foot traffic and construction would tie up their storefronts; while commuters wanted a faster way downtown. Now that it's up and running, the St Clair Streetcar is facing another problem: is it safe? Toronto Fire Services raised the alarm on the dedicated right of way that stretches from Yonge to Bathurst, and will eventually extend to Gunns Road. In a letter to Councillor Cesar Palacio, they said the route hampered their work. "Concerns of public safety, where thousands and thousands of people along St. Clair, inside their community, could be at risk," Palacio described. Fire officials claim the road is unsafe and could cause critical delays in response times and even problems fighting fires. "You think the city would have considered that before they did all this. And they didn't," joked one area resident. The fire chief claims he did share his concerns with the TTC before construction began. In a detailed letter, officials say part of the problem is that this road would be too narrow. They also say that there's a chance pedestrians waiting for streetcars here could be hit by an emergency vehicle. Toronto Fire Chief William Stewart claims that the raised streetcar lines add crucial minutes to his department's response time. "The issue for us is, if we have to use the right-of-way...for emergency response...if we have to get up on that raised right-of-way, we have to maneuver. We have very little minimal space to operate that truck on. And protect you coming off the truck," explains Stewart. Another concern is at the curb, which is nine inches high in spots. Instead of quickly zipping in and out of traffic, as it would on a regular road, the fire truck has to climb over it. "There were all sorts of issues around sidewalk width, road width," agrees TTC spokesperson Brad Ross. "The safety concerns of Toronto Fire were absolutely considered, and my understanding with Toronto Fire is that they understand that they can use the right-of-way for short periods. It's not designed to be driven on permanently. It's not a fire route as I say. It's designed to be used in emergency situations," Ross argues. "Well that would be a fair statement - if you had a street that wasn't totally blocked," countered Stewart. It's the poles that distinguish this route from similar right of way lines on Queen's Quay and Spadina. Emergency vehicles don't have the same problems on those streets. According to Palacio, the right of way will not be complete until 2011. Plenty of time, he says, to redraw the plans. "It's our responsibility to create a safe environment for residents, especially when their safety is going to be compromised because of this project," he vowed. On CityOnline, Palacio pointed to the existence of dedicated lanes on Spadina and Queen's Quay, but said the TTC has not been forthcoming with its reports from the area. "We've asked for that information for over four years from...the TTC. We've said, okay, you have this experience on Queen's Quay and Spadina with the right-of-way. So what's happened? Has response time been affected? And you know they can't find that data to give it to us."

it sounds like your beef is with the TTC, not David Miller?

if emergency access is a major issue...then absolutely the plans should be amended to accomodate it.

I'm just unclear why this article is part of a 'I hate David Miller' thread

oh shit, jayx1 is hackin accounts!

btw, from what i remember, it was mostly the engineering dept that pushed for the poles to be in the center for some reason.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT it sounds like your beef is with the TTC, not David Miller?

Eh? The decision to tear up the roads was not up to the TTC.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Eh? The decision to tear up the roads was not up to the TTC.

The issue in this article is not the right-of-way...it's how it differs from existing ones that don't pose the same problem for emergency vehicles.

did David Miller design and approve the specs...or did TTC staff or 3rd party engineers who perhaps should have known better?

Miller may be "responsible" for the right-of-way, but come on...

Say what you will, but I'd rather that this town get rid of the whole streetcar system altogether. What is this, Mr. Roger's Neighborhood?!

I'm positive it slows up traffic, there's hideous cable hanging all over the place, and it's SLOW AS FUCK. I could swear it's slower than the bus.

I blame David Miller for pushing the right-of-way down our throats.

I blame the engineers and city planners for poor design.

At the end of the day, Miller 'is' the municipal government, so he gets to be the object of my derision and scorn.
Like people blame Bush for Iraq, even though he really just okayed the plan and had nothing to do with it's details.

Plus, the guy's a fucking douche.

You forgot david miller's cancelling of "Celebrate Toronto" which was a nice festival for families that had real attractions and instead replaced it with his wine and cheese crowd offerings like Nuit Blanche which will never have anywhere near the same numbers of attendance. Not saying that Nuit Blanche shouldnt happen, but why not both? Answer: One was working class Lastman's idea and the other was limousine socialist miller's.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 You forgot david miller's cancelling of "Celebrate Toronto" which was a nice festival for families that had real attractions and instead replaced it with his wine and cheese crowd offerings like Nuit Blanche which will never have anywhere near the same numbers of attendance. Not saying that Nuit Blanche shouldnt happen, but why not both? Answer: One was working class Lastman's idea and the other was limousine socialist miller's.

LOL... Limousine Socialist? Give me a break.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 You forgot david miller's cancelling of "Celebrate Toronto" which was a nice festival for families that had real attractions and instead replaced it with his wine and cheese crowd offerings like Nuit Blanche which will never have anywhere near the same numbers of attendance. Not saying that Nuit Blanche shouldnt happen, but why not both? Answer: One was working class Lastman's idea and the other was limousine socialist miller's.

Lastman is hardly without his own self-serving infastructure cock-ups.

For example, Lower Eglinton Station, which was completely excavated only to be filled with sand so he could build the all but useless subway extension in his precious North York.

But yeah, I think Miller lives under the delusion that he is percieved as a regular guy by the public. All I see when I look at him is a smug, Harvard educated panty-waist who's just skipping through his terms without contributing anything really effective to the city.

Dave Spencer for Mayor!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Akermanis LOL... Limousine Socialist? Give me a break.

The correct term is champagne socialist and yes, that is an accurate description of Miller and his ilk. For all his bloviating about public transit, do you think he's ever actually taken it?

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut The correct term is champagne socialist and yes, that is an accurate description of Miller and his ilk. For all his bloviating about public transit, do you think he's ever actually taken it?

Im sorry but what exactly does Miller's goal of improving public transit have to do with him potentially masquerading as an advocate of the poor? Miller has said so himself on several occasions that Toronto's public transit has to be revitalized to establish Toronto as a world class city.

Furthermore, how exactly is douchebag Mel Lastman an advocate of the working class? What a load of shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Akermanis Miller has said so himself on several occasions that Toronto's public transit has to be revitalized to establish Toronto as a world class city.

And how, precisely, has he revitalized it?

Instead of lapping up every smug word he says, how about you look at his track record. All he's actually succeeded in doing is to make life more difficult for automobile drivers. Hardly on the way to "world class" here.

But Miller said so himself, so it must be true!!

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. DAS For example, Lower Eglinton Station, which was completely excavated only to be filled with sand so he could build the all but useless subway extension in his precious North York.

you can add mike harris and his provincial conservatives to that as well. heck, anything to do with cutting transit you can thank mike harris for.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut And how, precisely, has he revitalized it? All he's actually succeeded in doing is to make life more difficult for automobile drivers. Hardly on the way to "world class" here. But Miller said so himself, so it must be true!!

How do you figure?

- The St. Clair Right of Way will make the transit service along the street more efficient.

- Miller has contributed toward the TTC's ridership growth strategy

- Miller recently announced plans to build a light rail network linking most of the city...

These are just some of the contributions he has made to improving public transit in the city. The problem doesn't lie with Miller, thats complete nonsense.

The problem is two-fold and self-exacerbating:

More people need to leave their cars at home and rely on public transit... The only problem is that the service as it exists today could be better. This is exactly why Metrolinx exists and is working toward improving transit in Toronto.

dangerous

ive seen the size of the streetcar lanes and i can tell you theres noway a firetruck is gonna be able to stay on them their way to narow

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 You forgot david miller's cancelling of "Celebrate Toronto" which was a nice festival for families that had real attractions and instead replaced it with his wine and cheese crowd offerings like Nuit Blanche which will never have anywhere near the same numbers of attendance. Not saying that Nuit Blanche shouldnt happen, but why not both? Answer: One was working class Lastman's idea and the other was limousine socialist miller's.

did you even attend any Nuit Blanche events last year? Because I was out for *hours* from the Ryerson area to OCAD to College West to Yorkville.

there were students ALL OVER THE PLACE, easily outnumbering the "wine and cheese" crowd in most locations to which you claim it caters. As for attendance, I can't remember seeing the community out en mass on city streets for anything other than major events like Caribana, Pride, etc.

if you want to complain about Celebrate Toronto being canned, fine...but don't bash a widely attended, successful event like Nuit Blanche at the same time.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Akermanis How do you figure? - The St. Clair Right of Way will make the transit service along the street more efficient. - Miller has contributed toward the TTC's ridership growth strategy - Miller recently announced plans to build a light rail network linking most of the city... These are just some of the contributions he has made to improving public transit in the city. The problem doesn't lie with Miller, thats complete nonsense. The problem is two-fold and self-exacerbating: More people need to leave their cars at home and rely on public transit... The only problem is that the service as it exists today could be better. This is exactly why Metrolinx exists and is working toward improving transit in Toronto.

Jesus tap-dancing Christ, are you his PR agent or something? I swear, you sound like a press release straight from the Mayor's office.

I ask you again, what have Miller or any of his cronies actually done to improve transportation in Toronto? Throwing money at advertising, forming committees, and whining and bitching at people for driving cars when the TTC doesn't go anywhere useful is not improving this city. Neither is tearing up roads and expressways in a vain attempt to force people to use the TTC.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut TTC doesn't go anywhere useful

just curious, where does it go then? or does it go nowhere at all?

quote:

Originally posted by smuncky just curious, where does it go then? or does it go nowhere at all?

Must we dredge up this debate again?


London:




Tokyo:




New York:




Barcelona:




Chicago:





....Toronto:




Can we close the book on this, please?

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Jesus tap-dancing Christ, are you his PR agent or something? I swear, you sound like a press release straight from the Mayor's office. I ask you again, what have Miller or any of his cronies actually done to improve transportation in Toronto? Throwing money at advertising, forming committees, and whining and bitching at people for driving cars when the TTC doesn't go anywhere useful is not improving this city. Neither is tearing up roads and expressways in a vain attempt to force people to use the TTC.

Strange then that so many of us get along just fine using Toronto's transit system. Perhaps we are just more resourceful than you are?

I guess I can see your point when you ask what Miller has actually DONE in terms of new components/develpments to the transit system - but I think you are totally disregarding the huge amt. of lobbying and work Miller has contributed to the TTC securing new sources of funding.

You say the transit system doesn't go anywhere? Then why are you complaining about the efforts that are underway to improve it?

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut ...

aw, come on now...

the TTC is more than just the subway and RT system.

agreed it's pathetic compared to other world cities, but...

Tokyo looks like a giant circuit board, god damn thats crazy.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut

right right i forgot. theres only the subway system that we must compare to all the other subway systems.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT the TTC is more than just the subway and RT system.

Of course it is, but only rapid transit is relevant when discussing alternatives to driving. Very few people with the means to own a car would take buses instead - and making it more difficult to own a car is only going to piss off motorists, not get them out of their cars.

People who live downtown or on campus don't understand. There's this tiny little bubble that's really easy to move around in, with a few short appendanges snaking out into the actual GTA. Unless you happen to be in the bubble or on one of the limbs, most parts of the city are either inaccessible or terribly inconvenient without a car.

So yes, smuncky, there is "only" the subway system. People don't take buses from Markham unless they absolutely have to. And for anyone who's itching to scream "LRVs!", light rail is not true rapid transit - especially not the light rail that Toronto wants to do which is practically just a streetcar.

I've seen no viable plan to expand rapid transit into the parts of the GTA where most cars actually come from. For a city seriously bent on becoming "world class", that should be priority #1 for transit.

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