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Amsterdam- can it survive the smoking ban?

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/e...g.ap/index.html

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) -- This city's famed marijuana bars have weathered many challenges over the years and are still smoking.

But now they face an unwelcome blast of fresh air: On July 1, the Netherlands will be one of the last European countries to ban smoking in bars and restaurants in compliance with EU law.

The Health Ministry says the ban will apply to cafes that sell marijuana, known as coffee shops. But this being Holland, which for centuries has experimented with social liberalism, there's a loophole: The ban covers tobacco but not marijuana, which is technically illegal anyway.

But that still leaves coffee shops and their customers in a bind. Dutch and other European marijuana users traditionally smoke pot in fat, cone-shaped joints mixed with tobacco.

"It's the world upside down: In other countries they look for the marijuana in the cigarette. Here they look for the cigarette in the marijuana," said Jason den Enting, manager of coffee shop Dampkring.

Shops are scrambling to adapt. One alternative is "vaporizer" machines, which incinerate weed smokelessly. Another is to replace tobacco with herbs like coltsfoot, a common plant that looks like a dandelion and that smokers describe as tasting a bit like oregano.

But most shops are just planning to increase their sales of hash brownies and pure weed -- and are hoping the law isn't enforced.

Michael Veling, owner of the 4-20 Cafe and a board member of the Cannabis Retailers' Union, said he expected a small decline in sales as smokers are forced to separate their nicotine addiction from their marijuana habit.

But he expects the long-term effects to be minimal. "It's absurd to say that coffee shops will go bankrupt in the second week of July. Nonsense," he said.

Veling is instructing his staff to send tobacco smokers outside, but he doesn't expect all coffee shops to do the same. He said some owners will ignore the ban -- and will probably get away with it, at least for a while.

But "if obeying the smoking ban becomes a condition of renewing your business license, just watch how fast it will happen," he said. "That's the way things work."

Chris Krikken, spokesman for the Food and Wares Authority, charged with enforcing the ban, said his agency won't be targeting coffee shops in particular.

"For the first month we'll just be gathering information about compliance in a wide range of hospitality businesses. Depending on what we find, we may focus more squarely on a sector that's lagging," he said.

But he said individual businesses caught allowing customers to smoke will be warned and definitely checked again. "Repeat offenders will face escalating fines," he said.

Marijuana possession is illegal in the Netherlands, but smokers are not prosecuted for holding up to 5 grams. Around 750 cafes -- half of them in Amsterdam -- are licensed to have up to 500 grams in stock at any one time.

The Dutch "tolerance" policy recognizes that some people will smoke pot regardless of laws, so it might as well happen in an orderly way. Critics complain this encourages substance abuse.

But cannabis abuse in Holland ranks somewhere in the middle compared to other nations and is lower than in the U.S., France and England, according to statistics compiled by the United Nations' Office on Drugs and Crime.

At the same time, the levels of THC -- the main active chemical in marijuana -- have soared in the past decade and are now at 16 percent in Dutch weed.

The U.S. government sounded the alarm earlier this month because THC in American marijuana has doubled to 9.6 percent since 1983, and it warned of recent scientific findings linking the drug to mental problems.

The Dutch government, currently led by a conservative coalition with a religious bent, is slowly squeezing back the number of coffee shops by not renewing licenses when shops close.

Growers are arrested, leaving coffee shop owners struggling to obtain their main product.

"The rules are being set to pester us out of business one by one, slowly but surely," said Richard van Velthoven, manager at The Greenhouse, who said he feared being shut down for tobacco violations.

"I've taken the cigarette machines out, I'm putting Coltsfoot on the tables, I've bought extra vaporizers, the staff is watching out -- what more can I do?" he said.

German tourist Lars Schmit said lamented the possible end of an era.

Without coffee shops, he said, "a little bit of Amsterdam will die."

Re: Amsterdam- can it survive the smoking ban?

quote:

Originally posted by tatgirl "It's the world upside down: In other countries they look for the marijuana in the cigarette. Here they look for the cigarette in the marijuana,"

haha funny

I predict they don't enforce it in coffee shops, done.

Re: Re: Amsterdam- can it survive the smoking ban?

quote:

Originally posted by jon jon I predict they don't enforce it in coffee shops, done.

Our waiter at the Tiesto-raunt last year was telling us about this. He said the same thing. He said it may be a shock at first, but didn't really think it would hurt the economy too badly, as most police etc. would just turn a blind eye.

leaving the afterparty this morning and stinking of smoke for the first time in ages...which they had banned it June 1...

Don't think they will enforce it for the coffee shops

nannystatism is hitting holland. I guess thanks to the UN, nowhere is safe from big brother

If Paris and the french can do it, so can the Amsterdamites.

their banning ciggerettes, not marjuana....who cares...


ppl are stupid who decide not to go to a bar/club/restuarant/cafe etc...just b/c they cant posion themselves inside the establishment. if u wanna smoke, go outside, dont be so goddam lazy. i dont wanna go to a club or restaurant, whatever, and be breathing in 2nd hand smoke. i agree that maybe their should be certain bars where smoking is legal, with warning signs outside that ppl smoke inside. if u dont like it, dont go to this bar.

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess If Paris and the french can do it, so can the Amsterdamites.

I just dont understand why any business should have this imposed on them. Let them decide for themselves and let the non smokers decide whether they wish to enter or not.

The new world order is run by nanny i guess

quote:

Originally posted by AustralianGQ their banning ciggerettes, not marjuana....who cares... ppl are stupid who decide not to go to a bar/club/restuarant/cafe etc...just b/c they cant posion themselves inside the establishment. if u wanna smoke, go outside, dont be so goddam lazy. i dont wanna go to a club or restaurant, whatever, and be breathing in 2nd hand smoke. i agree that maybe their should be certain bars where smoking is legal, with warning signs outside that ppl smoke inside. if u dont like it, dont go to this bar.

You are ont he right track in the second part of your statement. Let business decide who they wish to cater to. Sadly the state has decided for them. This is not freedom in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 I just dont understand why any business should have this imposed on them. Let them decide for themselves and let the non smokers decide whether they wish to enter or not. The new world order is run by nanny i guess

or maybe the rest of the world is slowly concluding that smoking shouldn't be pemitted "anywhere" and that public health should trump an individual's perceived "right" to light up wherever they want?

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT or maybe the rest of the world is slowly concluding that smoking shouldn't be pemitted "anywhere" and that public health should trump an individual's perceived "right" to light up wherever they want?

it should still be the owner of any business to make that decision. If cities or countries want to ban smoking from properties they own then fine but when they decide to tell business owners what customers they need to cater to there is something seriously wrong with that.

Roll WITHOUT tobacco.
Seems pretty simple.
Mixed joints are whack anyways

quote:

Originally posted by sweds00 Roll WITHOUT tobacco. Seems pretty simple. Mixed joints are whack anyways

true


but i think most europeans do it so they dont get too high... haha

If they actually enforced this in most of the coffee shops, they would run out of cops so quickly for other crimes hahaha... I don't think this will hurt Amsterdam at all.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT or maybe the rest of the world is slowly concluding that smoking shouldn't be pemitted "anywhere" and that public health should trump an individual's perceived "right" to light up wherever they want?

they arent being permitted to smoke "whereever they want". Im not advocating smoking in hospitals, malls, or most public places. Just those places that are over the age of majority in voluntary entertainment facilities.

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