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-- Upper-class and well educated people are less patriotic.

Upper-class and well educated people are less patriotic.

And poor and halfway/less educated people tend be more patriotic..

Hmmm? What do you guys think?

Re: Upper-class and well educated people are less patriotic.

quote:

Originally posted by Kinezi And poor and halfway/less educated people tend be more patriotic.. Hmmm? What do you guys think?

Could you at least provide some sort of link that you believe supports causality or correlation before making such a provocative (and potentially quite idiotic) statement?

Personally, I think there is no particular reason to believe either case would be true. People is people and their beliefs are their own. We all make our own reality. I know plenty of people from both spheres that would render that argument both relevant and completely irrelevant.

Therefore, I'll say false (though the opposite is not necessarily the case either.)

I guess it depends what you mean by patriotism.

Re: Upper-class and well educated people are less patriotic.

quote:

Originally posted by Kinezi And poor and halfway/less educated people tend be more patriotic.. Hmmm? What do you guys think?

Why?
Where's the argument?

I think poor/uneducated people are more likely to be "blindly" patriotic... That is, they don't take into account the bigger picture...the repercussions of their government's policies towards the rest of the world...so they have more of a "We're always right...God bless America" attitude. The more educated you become, the less black and white the world seems.

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt they have more of a "We're always right...God bless America" attitude. The more educated you become, the less black and white the world seems.

very true.

personally, i think i'm very patriotic, however, i'm neither poor nor uneducated.

Re: Upper-class and well educated people are less patriotic.

quote:

Originally posted by Kinezi And poor and halfway/less educated people tend be more patriotic.. Hmmm? What do you guys think?

My neighbors once asked me, "why don't you fly an American flag, like everyone else in the neighborhood in support of the troops?" and I say, "Fine, YOU can fly a flag in support of the troops, it's literally the LEAST you can do." I tend to take a more active and direct role in my patriotism, where I can see the results of my actions, not just fly a flag. (...and take a look at where those American flags are manufactured)

I also don't tend to throw it in anyone's face, I do my part silently.

People, like in that last picture, hold signs that say "BUY AMERICAN" and then they go and shop at Wal-mart or Harbor Freight tools and support the Chinese.

Re: Re: Upper-class and well educated people are less patriotic.

quote:

Originally posted by zookeeper People, like in that last picture, hold signs that say "BUY AMERICAN" and then they go and shop at Wal-mart or Harbor Freight tools and support the Chinese.

+1

the great hypocrisy of middle america.

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt The more educated you become, the less black and white the world seems.

Hmmm, I don't know if I agree with that one...

I would say that the more "experienced" you become, not just "educated", you view the world MORE in black and white/right and wrong.

Re: Re: Re: Upper-class and well educated people are less patriotic.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 +1 the great hypocrisy of middle america.

We don't seem willing to accept that fact that we are cutting our own throats by continuing to "hoard" all of this cheap overseas crap, not saving our paychecks, just verbally complaining about gas prices instead of actually changing our travel habits, and having Mexicans do all of our landscaping because we don't want house work to interfere with our Saturday golf match at the club.

Flying an American flag everyday does not relieve you of your responsibilities to this country.

I think I would actually have to say that being an "inactive patriot", ie: just flying the flag or having a yellow ribbon bumper sticker, is worse that a person who is a non-patriot and hates his country.

Re: Upper-class and well educated people are less patriotic.

quote:

Originally posted by Kinezi And poor and halfway/less educated people tend be more patriotic.. Hmmm? What do you guys think?

I think you need data and/or arguments. But, let's see:

quote:

More patriotic countries have greater equity home bias. In a panel of World Values Surveys covering 53 countries, measures of patriotism are positively related to home bias measures after controlling for transaction barriers, diversification benefits, information and familiarity. Changes in patriotism vary with changes in the home bias. The results are robust to using ISSP measures of patriotism covering 24 countries and within-U.S. data from the Survey of Consumer Finances. Instrumenting patriotism with social variables uncorrelated with economic and political factors confirms that patriotism affects investment. The average country invests $18 to $30 billion more abroad with a one standard deviation drop in patriotism.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....tract_id=406200

Applying this to a more personal level, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the more cosmopolitan a person is, the less patriotic they tend to be. Therefore, the less one person knows about foreigners, the more they seem to think their kind is somewhat more special.

not sure why you all want the OP to provide links or arguments, he's put a statement up there for debate, and so far the point is being debated pretty well.

it is a very broad brush to paint people with. A lot of poor people came from other parts of the world, so can be more experienced in international issues than rich folks. Plenty of rich folks live in a cocooned world.

I disagree.

More educated people are more aware of when patriotism is used to coerce the populace into support for things such as military adventures. One of the things a country's leadership needs if they want to wage war is the support of the populace. Most uneducated folks are blindly patriotic. Especially if they are indoctrinated.

I am patriotic to the extent of wanting my country to propagate peaceful policies and not watching as old men think of new ways to send young boys to their deaths in a foreign country thousands of miles away which poses no threat to the sovereign integrity of the USA.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton I disagree. More educated people are more aware of when patriotism is used to coerce the populace into support for things such as military adventures. One of the things a country's leadership needs if they want to wage war is the support of the populace. Most uneducated folks are blindly patriotic. Especially if they are indoctrinated. I am patriotic to the extent of wanting my country to propagate peaceful policies and not watching as old men think of new ways to send young boys to their deaths in a foreign country thousands of miles away which poses no threat to the sovereign integrity of the USA.

I somewhat agree however just wondering how you feel about the ones that do pose a threat?

And what's the best way to determine that anyways? (That's an open question btw, not necessarily directed to you Krypton)

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt I think poor/uneducated people are more likely to be "blindly" patriotic... That is, they don't take into account the bigger picture...the repercussions of their government's policies towards the rest of the world...so they have more of a "We're always right...God bless America" attitude. The more educated you become, the less black and white the world seems.

I agree with what you said but well-educated and upper-class seem to be going hand-in-hand here when in reality they don't. What defines "well-educated" anyways? Going to university? There's a lot of people out there who are "well-educated" on paper but when it comes to critical, abstract thinking they're on the lower end of the scale. I think "wiser" would be a better word.

Same goes for the rich. How does money affect a persons way of thinking? If anything the rich are just as blind as the poor because they're the ones who have been spoiled by life in the west. I doubt all the white affluent Canadians/Americans with their iPods and Abercrombie and Fitch clothes are any smarter, or less patriotic, than the poor. If anything, they don't express it as much because they're concerned with more important things (eg. new products to waste their money on)

I think the premise of this thread is complete shit and you'll find people of equal patriotism (and the inverse) accross most large social classes.

I would like us to remember the great men we call 'Patriots' were well educated and fairly liberal radicals who engaged in a revolution to overthrow their government.

Re: Re: Upper-class and well educated people are less patriotic.

I think I need to change the wording a little bit:

In terms of 'number' of people who are patriotic, poor and uneducated people are greater than rich and educated..

Re: Re: Re: Upper-class and well educated people are less patriotic.

quote:

Originally posted by Kinezi I think I need to change the wording a little bit: In terms of 'number' of people who are patriotic, poor and uneducated people are greater than rich and educated..

I don't call them patriots though I call them blind idiots because that is what they are.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Upper-class and well educated people are less patriotic.

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Originally posted by Zild I don't call them patriots though I call them blind idiots because that is what they are.

Yeah, I see them having national anthem as their cellphone ringtones and stuff.. and I am like wtf... whenever there is a war, they are first to line up and join army.. no matter what.. than they think that their nation is great and their country is a victim of exploitation from other countries instead of seeing what they have done to get their country on feet.. look at japan they were anhilated after ww2 but they are back.. but countries in africa and asia do nothing but sit on their asses and blame west for all their misery all the time..

I think it is a lot more patriotic to stand up for something you see that your country is doing wrong and try to change it for the better.

Whenever I hear people talking about emigrating due to political reasons I get upset because to me this is my country and I love it. So I'm not going to hand it over that easily.

To Me this is a patriot.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r I somewhat agree however just wondering how you feel about the ones that do pose a threat? And what's the best way to determine that anyways? (That's an open question btw, not necessarily directed to you Krypton)

The ones? I'm assuming you mean a dangerous country.

I don't consider Iran to be a dangerous country. They pose no threat to the sovereignty of the USA. I believe America today is more dangerous than any other country in the world. Talk about religious fundamentalists, the Bush Administration is full of them. The Republican Party has been overtaken by the Religious Right-wingers and social conservatives. What's scary about a party which brings religious doctrine into the political discourse is their uncomprimising authoritarianism. You can't comprimise with an absolutist. That is very dangerous. Is it no wonder why the Bush administration is one of the most divisive in the history of our country? Fundamentalist Christians are in charge of the most powerful country on earth. Rationalism plays a minimal role in their philosophy.

How do I determine what country is a threat? If any country unilaterally engages in wars of aggression, they are a threat. A country which threatens the sovereignty of another is a threat.

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