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-- What am I not understanding here? =/

What am I not understanding here? =/

I must have had the wrong assumption about hardware.

If it has its own DSP, and theres NO LATENCY at all from pressing a key to the sound, why you do have to adjust the latency in the DAW of the hardware?

I'm using an ASIO driver, and it has a section for the synth to adjust latency too now. If I put the latency low on FL (for ASIO or Xiosynth *through FL) it destroys the sound with clicks.

HOWEVER, if I use the synth standalone w/out Fruity, theres no clicking at all.

If the hardware isn't using CPU from the computer, why does adjusting the latency in Fruity affect the sound of the hardware?

And last, no matter what I do, when I play midi from FL with my synth, theres ALWAYS a 1/16th note latency delay from the time it hits the note and sound comes out of the speakers.

But when I press a key the sound comes out instant.

This is making me think the time it takes to send the midi to the synth, through FL and out the speakers is taking 1/16th of a notes worth of time?

Could I be wrong or am I missing something. Cant get rid of that little bit of latency when playing midi with it..

I'm by no means an expert on these technical issues, my understanding of latency is that it is the delay between one item and another, right? So, if you have the synth stand alone, you are really just going from the synth to the interface to the speakers. When you include your sequencer, FL, you are now introducing another factor in the formula which can cause latency. So, you're dealing with CPU usage as it transmits data from the hardware to the DAW (your DAW has to receive it and send it back to the synth via midi), so you aren't technically using JUST the synth.

I have no experience in FL, so I'm probably not much help on the solution. Have you adjusted the buffer?

Yeh I tried the buffer, and thats what I'm thinking.

It has to just be a delay collecting the midi and sending it back. Would be curious to see if anyone does this and has no latency at all.

I'm not a rocked scientist either but if these signals are traveling at the speed of electricity, thats some pretty lazy fuckn voltage lol.

Re: What am I not understanding here? =/

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox I must have had the wrong assumption about hardware. If it has its own DSP, and theres NO LATENCY at all from pressing a key to the sound, why you do have to adjust the latency in the DAW of the hardware? I'm using an ASIO driver, and it has a section for the synth to adjust latency too now. If I put the latency low on FL (for ASIO or Xiosynth *through FL) it destroys the sound with clicks. HOWEVER, if I use the synth standalone w/out Fruity, theres no clicking at all. If the hardware isn't using CPU from the computer, why does adjusting the latency in Fruity affect the sound of the hardware? And last, no matter what I do, when I play midi from FL with my synth, theres ALWAYS a 1/16th note latency delay from the time it hits the note and sound comes out of the speakers. But when I press a key the sound comes out instant. This is making me think the time it takes to send the midi to the synth, through FL and out the speakers is taking 1/16th of a notes worth of time? Could I be wrong or am I missing something. Cant get rid of that little bit of latency when playing midi with it..

are u useing a usb or a firewire audio interface? i think u would get less of a delay if any if u use a firewire audio interface!

Never heard of a firewire interface, you mean "interface" or "cable"?

Because I'm using just a regular USB cable lol. Feel like such a friggn newbie now!

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox Never heard of a firewire interface, you mean "interface" or "cable"? Because I'm using just a regular USB cable lol. Feel like such a friggn newbie now!

try to have the audio in to a firewire audio interface like a m-audio fire 410!

Ok I'll give that a shot, if it doesn't work I guess I'll just email Novation. Thanks!

i may not know what i am talking about its just a guess! i just got a micro korg today im going to hook up the audio and midi of my micro korg to the my m-audio firewire 410 but right now i cant get the midi to work with my korg microKONTROL with ABLETON LIVE or REAPER! The guy at the music store could not the the midi to work also and he was using Apple's Logic! hate to take back my baby!

Another FL Studio recording problem, what a shame.

Using hardware in FL is always going to be a pain in the arse

That wasn't a slur against FL btw, it is from someone who tried using hardware in FL

quote:

Originally posted by Ry Thomas That wasn't a slur against FL btw, it is from someone who tried using hardware in FL

Does this apply for all hardware?

quote:

Originally posted by Alan2008 Does this apply for all hardware?

Well synths aren't too bad but are still a pain, fx are a total nightmare though

Robby, what is your audio interface/soundcard or are you just using the onboard sound in your computer?

Your problem is just latency, which is usually solved by having the correct soundcard driver installed. If you are using onboard sound, chances are it sucks and you will never be able to get latency down to an acceptable level.

1/16th note is excessive but you will always have a minute delay (far less than 1/16th note) as midi is converted to audio and your speakers tranduce it.

Let me know what soundcard and midi controller you are using.

I have a Novation Xio, an ASIO/Real Tech & Novation Sound driver for the latency of which I use the ASIO for.

Sound card is the one that came with the computer. But if theres barely any latency using a softsynth, the soundcard shouldn't be the reason why theres now latency on the hardsynth.

I've adjusted latency on ASIO, and ASIO's newly subdivided 'xio in & xio out" subsections in the audio menu under ASIO. Which doesn't make sense because I never installed any kind of Xio driver.

I'll get a picture of it so you can see everything, latency settings and all, it will prob only be more confusing then. Thanks though!

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox I have a Novation Xio, an ASIO/Real Tech & Novation Sound driver for the latency of which I use the ASIO for. Sound card is the one that came with the computer. But if theres barely any latency using a softsynth, the soundcard shouldn't be the reason why theres now latency on the hardsynth. I've adjusted latency on ASIO, and ASIO's newly subdivided 'xio in & xio out" subsections in the audio menu under ASIO. Which doesn't make sense because I never installed any kind of Xio driver. I'll get a picture of it so you can see everything, latency settings and all, it will prob only be more confusing then. Thanks though!

Your soundcard is probably the reason you have 'latency', with a good soundcard you can lower the latency to a minimum. You almost always have some latency, but it can not be percieved by the ear.

Another question, why not ditch your standard soundcard and use the one the Novation has onboard? That one should be a lot better and might help with you latency problem!

And just to clearify, are you using your Novation audio drivers on you standard computer soundcard, if so, that won't work!

In my opinion, you should disable you standard soundcard in the computer's BIOS, and install the Novation Xio Soundcard, that should get things going!

Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by atxbigballer1 i may not know what i am talking about its just a guess! i just got a micro korg today im going to hook up the audio and midi of my micro korg to the my m-audio firewire 410 but right now i cant get the midi to work with my korg microKONTROL with ABLETON LIVE or REAPER! The guy at the music store could not the the midi to work also and he was using Apple's Logic! hate to take back my baby!

Are you using the midi interface that is on you M-audio? I personally have a bad experience with M-audio Midi-interfaces. You should see if you driver is installed correctly. Do you have more analog gear that requires midi, if so, how did you hook everything up, with midi-thru or do you have everything on a seperate channel.

And maybe a stupid little solution, but if you midi doesn't work correctly, make sure that you have hooked them up right. I had this problem once, and it was just a simple cable plugged in wrong. Your synths midi-out should be in your computers midi-in.

Good luck to you to !

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN ..... as midi is converted to audio and your speakers tranduce it.

Not true. Midi is a universal code that 'tells' you synth (hard- or softare) which note to play and doesn't covert into audio, as you probably know, when playing an external synth with midi, you have to record the audio signal.

Thanks! I'm not using the Novation driver because when I tried no sound came out & I figured it was some kind of compatability issues like you said.
Never did the M-Audio yet and prob won't after you said it was troublesome for you.

What I'm still not understanding is you said to use the Xio's soundcard. Is that even possible?
The soundcard is IN the Xio and my pc's soundcard is IN the pc. You're saying I can run my pc with the Xio soundcard w/out physically switching the actual soundcards?

I never heard of anything like that before. Is that done in bios? And if I did that I assume I would have to have my Xio on anytime I mixed just to use its soundcard?

Sorry if a lot of questions, would have never thought that was even possible.

quote:

Originally posted by Theran Not true. Midi is a universal code that 'tells' you synth (hard- or softare) which note to play and doesn't covert into audio, as you probably know, when playing an external synth with midi, you have to record the audio signal.

Gee, I didn't think you had to record the audio to play it back. Silly me. Maybe I should quit my studio engineering job or better still go back to audio engineering school.

By the way, midi is actually not a "universal code" - it is simply data in the form of event messages. My description of latency delay was simplified for robby so as to explain the reason why even when you have everything setup correctly there will be a tiny delay from the physical action of pushing the key to you hearing it. This relates to softsynths, as per his original comparison of delay between internal and external synths.

I was explaining (albeit over simplified) that it takes a small amount of time for a midi message to be processed by the target (softsynth etc.) and that digital signal to be converted in to an analogue signal which is the transduced by your speakers (from an electrical signal in to magnetic energy, kinetic then sound (and heat)).

Robby, you can use the Xio as you only soundcard. It uses the Usb to send both the audio in/out and the midi to and from your pc.

1, The reason you are getting latency when playing back midi from FL, is you are using the crap onboard/internal soundcard. Make sure the on board soundcard is disabled (it is better to do this in the BIOS but you can get away with disabling it in the device manager in windows).

2, Use the Xio as your soundcard in FL and select it as the appropriate driver in FL. Now make sure the physical outputs from the Xio to go to your speakers.

3, also make sure you have downloaded the latest driver from the novation website as the ones that often come on the CD are not the latest.

I am not specifically familiar with the Xio but there has to be a setting on it which allows you to just listen to the return from the PC (rather than the direct output of the synth). You need to find this so that if you are using it to control a softsynth in the PC you won't only hear the patch selected on the xio itself.


Hope this helps......

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Gee, I didn't think you had to record the audio to play it back. Silly me. Maybe I should quit my studio engineering job or better still go back to audio engineering school.

Dude, don't bitch around! You where the one to explain it wrong. And MIDI is a universal code which lets instruments with MIDI interfaces interact with eachother.

So next time you explain something, do it right!!!

... and dude, your repeating everything I said

Ontopic: Yeah, the Xio has an onboard soundcard. There are all types of soundcards which are only a breakout box (Check MOTU)..

No problem with the questions, that's why we are here for!

quote:

Originally posted by Theran Dude, don't bitch around! You where the one to explain it wrong. And MIDI is a universal code which lets instruments with MIDI interfaces interact with eachother. So next time you explain something, do it right!!! ... and dude, your repeating everything I said Ontopic: Yeah, the Xio has an onboard soundcard. There are all types of soundcards which are only a breakout box (Check MOTU).. No problem with the questions, that's why we are here for!

"Dude", Midi is not a "universal code" - this is a erroneous description - it stands for musical instrument digital interface and is simply data with a value between 0 and 127 which forms specific control messages. It is not "universal" by definition as it has pre-defined functions with a couple of exceptions (such as NRPNs which have to be user defined but are limited by and to the users function of them). It is also not a "code" (whatever that means?) it is just data used to control musical instruments and in some cases used for for other applications (pyrotechnics, lighting, etc.)

If you read my post, you see that I didn't copy what you said : I expanded on what you wrote as you just said disable the soundcard and install the Xio - my instructions give detail on how robby should go about it, step by step.

I already said that I had simplified my original explanation of latency but then again you don't seem to read the posts....just comment.

Actually who is repeating?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Robby, you can use the Xio as you only soundcard. It uses the Usb to send both the audio in/out and the midi to and from your pc.

quote:

Originally posted by Theran Ontopic: Yeah, the Xio has an onboard soundcard.

Finally, next time your on a forum that you've been a member of for less than 6 months, it might be an idea to try not to be condescending . You'll end up getting told by people who have been members for lot longer.....

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Finally, next time your on a forum that you've been a member of for less than 6 months, it might be an idea to try not to be condescending . You'll end up getting told by people who have been members for lot longer.....

Pretty sad that, as a last resort, you are attacking my member time at TA.

Anyway, you were the first to mess up with explaining in the wrong way what MIDI was. And about that repeatetive thing, I was repeating myself, not you!

But can we get ontopic again, I'm getting a bit tierd of these kind of conversations

quote:

Originally posted by Ry Thomas That wasn't a slur against FL btw, it is from someone who tried using hardware in FL

i've never had these problems.

david

quote:

Originally posted by Theran Pretty sad that, as a last resort, you are attacking my member time at TA. Anyway, you were the first to mess up with explaining in the wrong way what MIDI was. And about that repeatetive thing, I was repeating myself, not you! But can we get ontopic again, I'm getting a bit tierd of these kind of conversations

I'm not attacking anyone, it's all good. I just think it was a bit obvious that I was simplifying my explanation of latency and thought that your initial response was really condescending (in both language and tone) for someone who hasn't been posting very long, that's all.

Robby, how did you get on?

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