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The main loop trap

So I've been in this trap lately, where you set up the kick, the bass, maybe some kind of pad, and then...you just loop it...for long periods of time...and waste all your time auditioning every sound your synth can make...and then you get sick of it...and then quit...and never get around to actually producing anything...

at first I thought this approach would be great to come up with some melodies or grooves or just to experiment with effects, but you know i'm really finding out that it does not at all help come up with any FLOW. I believe one of the most essential elements of any good EDM track is the flow - the movement of the sound (modulation) throughout the track. Focusing on one single loop that you hope to bring in at the pinnacle buildup of the track just doesn't take into account all the other elements that make many EDM tracks interesting and engaging. Even though I realize this, i keep finding myself falling back to the same vicious cycle.

I need a new workflow.

Try setting yourself a number of bars, like 256 or 172, and then just start at bar 1 and keep writing until you reach the end.

Once you get toward the end you can modify the number of bars to fit what you feel is best for the song, of course...

Also, I find it useful to play through my song a lot while I'm working on it, from the very start to the end, since that's how other people are going to actually hear your song.

What you can do is extend the loop to the whole track and change it when it gets boring, I do that sometimes.

Some producers sometimes use the same loop for the whole track but the fact that it's long (the loop) reduces the repetitiveness.

By a long loop I mean something like 8 or 16 bars.

Re: The main loop trap

quote:

Originally posted by cl0ckw3rk I need a new workflow.

I think that the problem may be that you're locking yourself into a bass line and drum feel, which can severely limit your creativity. Try freeing yourself of the computer and focus on the music. If you have a piano or hardware synth with piano sounds, just start playing - no drums, no bass line, just you and a blank canvas. If all you have are soft synths and a MIDI controller, then find a piano sound and turn off your monitor so that you focus your attention on the notes that you are playing. Start with a chord progression and/or melody and go from there. IMO, it's always easier to add drums and bass to a good melody and chord progression than vice-versa.

HTH.

oh im there 90% of my tracks is just loops. i love it tho. i produce in reason btw, i think the only way i can stop this looping thing im into is to change sequencer.

I get around this very easily, by simply start arranging the track immedietly as i begin, lay down kickdrums for 5 minutes and then just start from the beginning and introduce new elements as i see fit.

I have separate sessions for composition, sound selection and actually taking something through to a finished song.

I'd recommend you spend some time coming up with great progressions and melodies - composition is incredibly important, and it pays off to spend time focusing exclusively on it - don't worry about the sound at this point, just get something functional - you're focusing on the music, not the sounds - you can choose the right sounds later on.

Once you have enough solid musical ideas, start putting sounds together. Don't get into any heavy eq'ing, or production decisions at this point - you just want to find a set of sounds which sit well together, before you start doing any further sound shaping or producing. Loop it a few times (i.e. copy and paste), then export it as a WAV file and put it to one side, then start with the next chord progression/ melody and put a pleasing mix of sounds together. The chord progression could be a pad, or you could put it through an arpeggiator, whatever feels right at that point in time.

Then you'll have a bunch of WAV files containing kick, bass, pads, lead, percs...the bare bones of a song. Then you can listen through these the next day and write down thoughts - "the bass is buried in the mix, try a different sound", "the song feels empty, it needs another element to fill in the midrange", "the kick doesn't have enough oomph, but that lead sounds fantastic".

See which ideas appeal to you, which ones you'd like to develop further. Some just won't work at all, in which case you could tear it all down and start fresh with a new set of sounds, with the added benefit of knowing what doesn't work - you'll have a clearer idea of what you want. Better to spend a brief amount of time putting a set of sounds together which don't work, than spending hours putting a set of sounds together which don't work.

i think people get in the habit of spreading their track out before they have enough elements. sit in a 8 bar loops until you really have the meat of your track in there. then once you have ideas and can subtract stuff for less busy parts. from there you will you start to get an arrangement in place.

Try this (not because I've tried it, but because I just thought of it and now I want to try it but can't):

Make your typical 8-bar loop.

Delete bars # and # of your kick

Delete bars # and # of your percussion

Delete bars # and # of your pad

Delete bars # and # of your lead

Redo those bars that you've deleted.

If you don't feel like differentiating them THAT much..then replace the word 'delete' for 'edit'.

Roll a dice, pick a pattern, whatever... just throw some numbers in there and see if something coherent pops up.

changing your sequencer WILL NOT change how you work...

i don't even understand the problem with working in a "looped" format when you're building the basics for your track... it makes sense to do it this way if you ask me. when you go to do the actual arrangement though, you are gonna need to do some variation on your leads and stuff or it's gonna get mondo boring

david

quote:

Originally posted by davidbuhau changing your sequencer WILL NOT change how you work... david

So... going from Reason to Live isn't going to change how I work? It changed how I worked entirely.

How about going from FL to Renoise? I'm pretty sure that's going to change things.

Yes... changing your sequencer has THE POTENTIAL to change how you work. Don't say it 'WILL NOT'.

Re: The main loop trap

quote:

Originally posted by cl0ckw3rk i keep finding myself falling back to the same vicious cycle. I need a new workflow.

That's really annoying, and I'm pretty sure we've all been into this situation. And there are no specific rules to get out of this cycle.

There are multiple situations that may lead to the "blank screen":

- Some just sit behind the computer screen with no inspiration at all, this happens a lot, and forcing yourself will make it worse. Better do something else.

-Some just make music the opposite way. They want to make music but have no basic idea to start with. Everything else, drums, basses, etc... are parts of an arrangement, so there's no way some can get over the lack of a "firestarter"

- Some just want to produce while they don't put their technical knowledge into the balance every now and then. This is dangerous as it reduces to possibilities of accidents to happen. Accidental things play a key role in electronic music.

I've tried some of these solutions. They did well for me, but don't blame me if it doesn't work for you.

- Change the place of some of your studio elements and furniture if you have a lot of outboard. Do manual work that keeps your attention away from producing in general, and try to do it without any music on, or listen to something different. Always change something every now and then, as people are as much in movement as they get older.

- Chances are that you will want to buy new furniture for that. Go to our swedish friends IKEA, and spend time over there. No need for furniture, no problem, just go for some shopping to the local grocery store, most preferably alone, and take your time. Many ideas come while buying fruits and vegetables. I know this is stupid, but it works every single time for me.

- If you're sitting behind your screen, just take a piano sound, your keyboard, a sustain pedal and play music. Whatever it is. Who cares what you'll play there after all? Musicians are made, not born.

- Edit your VSTi or instrument presets until you don't need them anymore, and start making your own patches from scratch. This is where accidents happen quite often. Don't forget to save your work, though. Do the same with drums, loops.

- READ your manuals, watch or read tutorials here or on youtube or anywhere else, as if you were a perpetual music student. And try everything out. Discover how things you don't know work, how plugins mod your sound.

There you go, try those things out, and tell us in a few days if it helped. Patience is the key.

man I'm in the same boat. I haven't finishing anything in like two years.

Lolo, you got any tip on how to not get bored of your own music ?

I find myself needing to listen to my track many times in order to find what needs improvement, and i often get bored and loose perspective of the track.

subtle: i see u posted this at 9 did u realy sleep at all lol? i had 4 hours now

Re: Re: The main loop trap

quote:

Originally posted by Lolo - Edit your VSTi or instrument presets until you don't need them anymore, and start making your own patches from scratch. This is where accidents happen quite often. Don't forget to save your work, though. Do the same with drums, loops. - READ your manuals, watch or read tutorials here or on youtube or anywhere else, as if you were a perpetual music student. And try everything out. Discover how things you don't know work, how plugins mod your sound. There you go, try those things out, and tell us in a few days if it helped. Patience is the key.

There the ones that work for me, in my opinion there is always something extra to learn, that keeps me motivated as i enjoy learning things.

I have found this too lol.

Usually I bring a melodic pad in which acts as an intro and the direction that the track will take.

Learning new techniques in producing new sounds also helps move a track forward, its the only way to get better I found.

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Lolo, you got any tip on how to not get bored of your own music ? I find myself needing to listen to my track many times in order to find what needs improvement, and i often get bored and loose perspective of the track.

this is not easy if you can just spend a few hours a day on your music, of course. I found out that usually, the faster you produce the less you get bored. Another good thing also in order not to get bored, I start several new tracks at the same time, totally different styles. And try to finish them as fast as possible.

Of course you put this way a lot less attention into detail. But I think that adding fx and candy/icing stuff on the cake can be easily made once the arrangement is entirely done, and it goes faster, too, as I know what to go for.

L.

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