TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Chill Out Room
-- The messages that cities send

The messages that cities send

Found a neat little essay today called "Cities and Ambition," written by Paul Graham, a Silicon Valley entrepreneur who has lived in lots of different big cities. While living in them he tried to discern the primary "messages" that different cities send to ambitious young people.

After talking about some specific cities, he goes on to more general stuff about how large cities can attract ambitious people and encourage them to do great work by surrounding them with like-minded peers and possibly a receptive audience (for example, Paris in the Impressionist period). Some interesting bits from it:

quote:

You can see how powerful cities are from something I wrote about earlier: the case of the Milanese Leonardo. Practically every fifteenth century Italian painter you've heard of was from Florence, even though Milan was just as big. People in Florence weren't genetically different, so you have to assume there was someone born in Milan with as much natural ability as Leonardo. What happened to him? If even someone with the same natural ability as Leonardo couldn't beat the force of environment, do you suppose you can? I don't. I'm fairly stubborn, but I wouldn't try to fight this force. I'd rather use it. So I've thought a lot about where to live. I'd always imagined Berkeley would be the ideal place�that it would basically be Cambridge with good weather. But when I finally tried living there a couple years ago, it turned out not to be. The message Berkeley sends is: you should live better. Life in Berkeley is very civilized. It's probably the place in America where someone from Northern Europe would feel most at home. But it's not humming with ambition. In retrospect it shouldn't have been surprising that a place so pleasant would attract people interested above all in quality of life. Cambridge with good weather, it turns out, is not Cambridge. The people you find in Cambridge are not there by accident. You have to make sacrifices to live there. It's expensive and somewhat grubby, and the weather's often bad. So the kind of people you find in Cambridge are the kind of people who want to live where the smartest people are, even if that means living in an expensive, grubby place with bad weather. ... Does anyone who wants to do great work have to live in a great city? No; all great cities inspire some sort of ambition, but they aren't the only places that do. For some kinds of work, all you need is a handful of talented colleagues. What cities provide is an audience, and a funnel for peers. These aren't so critical in something like math or physics, where no audience matters except your peers, and judging ability is sufficiently straightforward that hiring and admissions committees can do it reliably. In a field like math or physics all you need is a department with the right colleagues in it. It could be anywhere�in Los Alamos, New Mexico, for example. It's in fields like the arts or writing or technology that the larger environment matters. In these the best practitioners aren't conveniently collected in a few top university departments and research labs�partly because talent is harder to judge, and partly because people pay for these things, so one doesn't need to rely on teaching or research funding to support oneself. It's in these more chaotic fields that it helps most to be in a great city: you need the encouragement of feeling that people around you care about the kind of work you do, and since you have to find peers for yourself, you need the much larger intake mechanism of a great city. You don't have to live in a great city your whole life to benefit from it. The critical years seem to be the early and middle ones of your career. Clearly you don't have to grow up in a great city. Nor does it seem to matter if you go to college in one. To most college students a world of a few thousand people seems big enough. Plus in college you don't yet have to face the hardest kind of work�discovering new problems to solve. It's when you move on to the next and much harder step that it helps most to be in a place where you can find peers and encouragement. You seem to be able to leave, if you want, once you've found both. The Impressionists show the typical pattern: they were born all over France (Pissarro was born in the Carribbean) and died all over France, but what defined them were the years they spent together in Paris.

http://www.paulgraham.com/cities.html

Some of the specific cities he deals with:

New York: Make more money.
Cambridge (Boston): Be smarter.
Los Angeles: Get more famous.
Washington D.C.: Know more powerful people.
Paris: Be more stylish.

He has some really good essays there.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail He has some really good essays there.

Yeah, I recommend having a look around the essays index:

http://www.paulgraham.com/articles.html

Always written very clearly, and interesting enough to be worth the read most of the time.

essential reading IMO

Sounds interesting from the Wiki description.

Re: The messages that cities send

Outstanding topic, Brian

I've been wondering about that for quite a while myself. Vienna, for example, spawned some of the greatest minds of the last 150 years - Freud in Psychology, Hayek in Economics, Wittgenstein and Popper in Philosophy - not to mention some other figures that were relatively important in their fields as well. But, why?

The essay you posted is quite inspiring in the search for an answer. However, I think there's something far more important than the environment (or even the city itself), and I'll call that "the first celebrity".

Why did Florence attract more attention than Milan, regarding painting? Probably, Florence did foster the artistic enterprise of its painters more effectively than Milan (more people willing to buy artwork, et cetera). But, also, once the first celebrity steals the spotlight, it's much easier to followers to get some more attention as well. Before that, Florence would be more or less like Berkeley when compared to Cambridge: it had potential, but there was no great revolution to propel its inhabitants to international stardom.

Think of a lonely mathematician living in Kenya, bringing together Western mathematics and African thought. Devoid of any context (i.e. unless he's working in something scholars all around the world find useful), no matter how original his thought is, it's very unlikely that anyone will ever find his work, no matter how bright it is. Unless someone from a more prestigious university finds his work and tells everyone else about it, no one will ever say that Nairobi inspires this kind of intercultural communication (or whatever). A practical example is Ludwig Fleck, that anticipated many of Thomas Kuhn's insights... but because he was in Poland (and wrote in Polish), his ideas remained unknown for quite some time, until Kuhn himself cited his work.

Re: Re: The messages that cities send

quote:

Originally posted by Lira The essay you posted is quite inspiring in the search for an answer. However, I think there's something far more than the environment (or even the city itsel), and I'll call that "the first celebrity". Why did Florence attract more attention than Milan, regarding painting?

Banking. It was almost completely due to the presence of the de Medici family.



I think in most cases it's a question what the interests of the people who hold the most financial power are.

Re: Re: The messages that cities send

quote:

Originally posted by Lira The essay you posted is quite inspiring in the search for an answer. However, I think there's something far more than the environment (or even the city itsel), and I'll call that "the first celebrity".

Good point.

London: Get knocked up at 14 and we'll give you a free apartment

Interesting read.

Do people really care what others think of their work though? For most types of work, you will probably find enough peers in a big city. Then why would you care about the prevailing, though subtle messages that try to guide your ambition in some direction? My guess is that it's the feeling that the city has its priorities in the wrong oder, that "these people are not like me." There's the feeling of resentment you have when people don't respect what you do (ex - science/innovation/ideas), but rather some other arbitrary things that in you opinion, don't deserve much respect at all (wealth/fame/etc). And I'd guess that stubbornly denying that you should care about such things would at the very least, hinder your potential for doing great work, or at the worst, leave you discouraged, isolated and bitter.

The interesting question is how such communities collectively come to assign value to various channels of ambition.

I don't know... the city nearest me is Sheffield, in the North of England, and it's a very no-bullshit, down to Earth "a spade is a spade" kind of place. It doesn't seem like a very arty place. And yet it spawned Warp, the legendary record label, and helped unleash IDM on the music world.

If Sheffield had a message, it'd be "Stop talking shit, son".

Atlanta - Carry more change.

Sydney: What public transport?
Melbourne: If we keep saying how trendy we are it'll distract people from the weather
Brisbane: We're like Vegas... but not as bright
Adelaide: Serial killer capital of Australia We have churches
Darwin: Man, you must be lost!
Perth: Is great if you is Souwf Effrican
Hobart: Go canoeing with 3 mates, don't annoy the locals
Canberra: Cardigans, Government fleet cars and roundabouts

Cambridge: "there's this city across the charles river but you'll probably be too busy with problem sets to see any of it *pointandlaugh*"

In my opinion, some people prefer to live in bigger cities due to the fact that there is a larger more competitive environment or workforce, while others prefer living in smaller/suburban* environments for other intrinsic reasons that we may not know of.

Bras�_lia - Where Modernism Went Wrong

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec Banking. It was almost completely due to the presence of the de Medici family. I think in most cases it's a question what the interests of the people who hold the most financial power are.

Makes sense. Creative work requires funding of some sort, and the fact that the workers must deserve this funding to some extent probably has something to do with the fact that most "geniuses" live in these places. That, and the Matthew Effect.

quote:

Originally posted by tachobg Interesting read. Do people really care what others think of their work though? For most types of work, you will probably find enough peers in a big city. Then why would you care about the prevailing, though subtle messages that try to guide your ambition in some direction? My guess is that it's the feeling that the city has its priorities in the wrong order, that "these people are not like me." There's the feeling of resentment you have when people don't respect what you do (ex - science/innovation/ideas), but rather some other arbitrary things that in you opinion, don't deserve much respect at all (wealth/fame/etc). And I'd guess that stubbornly denying that you should care about such things would at the very least, hinder your potential for doing great work, or at the worst, leave you discouraged, isolated and bitter. The interesting question is how such communities collectively come to assign value to various channels of ambition.

No creative enterprise, be it scientific or artistic, is detached from society. If you wish to make a living with your work, you need support from your peers, who in turn need the support from their peers and so on. "You can have all this in a big city", you might say, but big cities appeared quite recently in the history of mankind. I, for instance, live in a relatively big city (2 million inhabitants): 100 years ago only 4 cities were that big, and 200 hundred years ago, no city was that big. So the problem begins with the first question - can people really isolate themselves in the city they live in, and not care about the feedback that may come from other regions? They might be able to do that now (I find it hard to believe that, though, because for every specific activity, there's just a handful of people in your city that are deeply into that), but that has just recently become possible.

quote:

Originally posted by tachobg Cambridge: "there's this city across the charles river but you'll probably be too busy with problem sets to see any of it *pointandlaugh*"

+1. been working in cambridge this summer and haven't gotten to go clubbing much at all, let alone see the city

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith Adelaide: Serial killer capital of Australia We have churches

People here get sooo pissed off when people say about it being the serial killer capital. Dunno why, its much more interesting than "we got some churches", "we haven't changed in 50 years", "progress is bad", "Australia's retirement village" etc

I once tried to start a push to recruit a high-profile supervillan to live in Adelaide as a joke. Unfortunatley it didn't catch on but I remain hopeful. It did however briefly appear in a news article which was publish on the Advertiser's website, but a later version of the article had the reference removed
ah the fun you can have with the 'leave your opinion' boxes on news websites

I think nefardec's book is next on my wish-list.

To Lira:

I really think that, as an explorer, every single place that you go to will leave a mark in your conscience, and you will take those experiences (good & bad) with you and put those experiences into practice when facing similiar situations.

I agree, every city has it's own attitude, environment, culture and the such. From personal experience, most of the western-mediterranean nations (Spain, France, Italy) are inclined to a more "conservative-western ideology", by this I am referring to their preference for christian beliefs and values. Interestingly enough, most of the values and traditions of the mediterranean region can be traced back to 'the craddle of civilization' (see: neolithic revolution). In my opinion, Spain has a more Visigothic and Latin way-of-life than Switzerland and France, eventhough they are in close proximity to one another. If we talk about Spain, there are so many different cultures, it's divided yet united in a very odd way. For example, in Catalonia not only are people proud of their heritage but they have claimed independence for years now and the same goes with Navarra (which is located on the northen side of spain, very close to France). Both regions have their own dialect and 'Barcelona' is very different from 'Pamplona', 'Pamplona' is very different from 'Madrid' (Castilla-Leon) and so on.

In the United States you can feel the different attitudes that each city carries. NYC has a more edgy, up-front and, to a certain extent, a more hard-hitting character because of it's history. Chicago has it's own personality and values, and so does Miami.

The only way to discover which city you belong to is by travelling...

Detroit: It's so cold in the D

HOW THE FUCK DO WE 'POSED TO KEEP PEACE?

Toronto : O_o

In my opinion, the 'Midwest' (the heartland) still holds those 'american values' that have been fordone over the years partly because of globalization. I think the 'Midwest' should be a great experience if you want to sink in the real 'american' experience. Everyone I've met from the Midwest has left a big impression in my heart. If you think about it, there are very few places in the US were you will find that kind warmth and human quality. To be fair, California has 'a completely different mindset' than the MW, but California in some ways has always been considered as the forward thinking state (specially with a city historically important as San Francisco - for the gold rush...)

My last trip to Canada was about a year ago and it was limited to Victoria, B.C. Now, in my opinion. If I retire rich enough to afford living there, it would be my #1 option mainly because it has a very european feel to it and the people are so nice. i like the fact that it's small, cold and very eco-friendly.

The blend of 'native indigenous' and british customs left a really warm impression on me. I really enjoyed walking around the port and sight-seeing for the most part, but there's alot of culture, and the people were so nice. but most canadians are very nice people, from experience...

quote:

Originally posted by diggerz I really think that, as an explorer, every single place that you go to will leave a mark in your conscience, and you will take those experiences (good & bad) with you and put those experiences into practice when facing similiar situations. I agree, every city has it's own attitude, environment, culture and the such. From personal experience, most of the western-mediterranean nations (Spain, France, Italy) are inclined to a more "conservative-western ideology", by this I am referring to their preference for christian beliefs and values. Interestingly enough, most of the values and traditions of the mediterranean region can be traced back to 'the craddle of civilization' (see: neolithic revolution). In my opinion, Spain has a more Visigothic and Latin way-of-life than Switzerland and France, eventhough they are in close proximity to one another. If we talk about Spain, there are so many different cultures, it's divided yet united in a very odd way. For example, in Catalonia not only are people proud of their heritage but they have claimed independence for years now and the same goes with Navarra (which is located on the northen side of spain, very close to France). Both regions have their own dialect and 'Barcelona' is very different from 'Pamplona', 'Pamplona' is very different from 'Madrid' (Castilla-Leon) and so on. In the United States you can feel the different attitudes that each city carries. NYC has a more edgy, up-front and, to a certain extent, a more hard-hitting character because of it's history. Chicago has it's own personality and values, and so does Miami. The only way to discover which city you belong to is by travelling...

Completely missed this post. Sorry

Interesting contribution (along with the others posts). I did travel through Europe when I was young, but I don't remember almost anything, and I was even younger when I went to the US (never been to Canada, though). Maybe I need to go there and experience it myself, in order to fully understand that

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.