Mixing your track - TranceAddict Forums

TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Production Studio
-- Mixing your track
Pages (2): [1] 2 »

Posted by Sonic_c on Jul-30-2008 12:14:

Mixing your track

I want to know about levels in a song.

I know how to write songs im learning piano/keyboard etc I know what a compressor does but.... I need to know how to apply this effect together with leveling etc to pull things through my mix

When i make a song when i mix it down the bass lowers and the melodies get lost and it sounds like its coming out of a pillow

One thing that works for me is run it through ozone izotope and turn the freq exiters up that sound ok but its not best practice

Does anyone have a general guidline how to get a punchy kick and off beat bass but allow for the melodies to also be at an audible level

help??

Posted by Lucidity on Jul-30-2008 12:17:

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...7&forumid=48&s=

Posted by sterilis on Jul-30-2008 12:17:

dont let your master level peak above -3 or -2 db that leaves room for the mastering. i tend to have the kick and bass the loudest parts of track then add everything around them. compression changes for every track i make on kicks, bass etc so i cant really give you any exact settings on them. but i do layer my kicks so they have a nice punch and smack but also a good sub.

Posted by Vortex_SA on Jul-30-2008 13:28:

quote:
Originally posted by sterilis
dont let your master level peak above -3 or -2 db that leaves room for the mastering. i tend to have the kick and bass the loudest parts of track then add everything around them. compression changes for every track i make on kicks, bass etc so i cant really give you any exact settings on them. but i do layer my kicks so they have a nice punch and smack but also a good sub.

i dont get this method... by not going all the way your using less of your bit rate... unless you master in the same software as you mix down, and using the same project file in order to not lose any sound... and why do you need room for mastering anyway? you can always use a trim device of some sort to trim down the volume later on...

compression is used to make a tighter volume of a track... some sounds i compress some not as sometimes you want a change in volume... it really comes down to what you want to get...

Posted by sterilis on Jul-30-2008 16:07:

quote:
Originally posted by Vortex_SA
i dont get this method... by not going all the way your using less of your bit rate... unless you master in the same software as you mix down, and using the same project file in order to not lose any sound... and why do you need room for mastering anyway? you can always use a trim device of some sort to trim down the volume later on...

compression is used to make a tighter volume of a track... some sounds i compress some not as sometimes you want a change in volume... it really comes down to what you want to get...

you cant send a track to a label in wav file at 0.0db its stupidity the label always asks for an unmastered wav version so it makes perfect sense to leave room for mastering.

Posted by Lucidity on Jul-30-2008 23:21:

quote:
Originally posted by sterilis
you cant send a track to a label in wav file at 0.0db its stupidity the label always asks for an unmastered wav version so it makes perfect sense to leave room for mastering.

Can't whomever is mastering it, just bring the level down themselves? Its only like one fader, shouldn't be that hard, unless you don't have fingers.

Posted by Subtle on Jul-30-2008 23:55:

If you have a track which kick is peaking at 0.0db there isnt gonna be room for the mastering engineer as much

Usually, when u mixdown your track it will have alot of dynamics
like in this picture:
http://www.subtleinc.net/masterscreen.JPG

If you mixdown at 0.0 db with limited etc. your track may look like this, dynamics lost.

http://www.subtleinc.net/masterscreen3.JPG

Even if the mastering engineer is lowering the volume, the dynamics will still be lost, like in this picture:

http://www.subtleinc.net/masterscreen2.JPG

Posted by Zak McKracken on Jul-31-2008 00:01:

but if its unmastered and peaks at 0dB they can lower it as far as i see it. nothing lost (as long as they do it analog, as i hope they do).

Posted by Stef on Jul-31-2008 04:51:

Posted by Vortex_SA on Jul-31-2008 07:12:

quote:
Originally posted by Subtle
If you have a track which kick is peaking at 0.0db there isnt gonna be room for the mastering engineer as much

Usually, when u mixdown your track it will have alot of dynamics
like in this picture:
http://www.subtleinc.net/masterscreen.JPG

If you mixdown at 0.0 db with limited etc. your track may look like this, dynamics lost.

http://www.subtleinc.net/masterscreen3.JPG

Even if the mastering engineer is lowering the volume, the dynamics will still be lost, like in this picture:

http://www.subtleinc.net/masterscreen2.JPG

...

your making no point here in my opinion... mastering for me is an artistic and crucial step for making a song, compressing and limiting if done right adds great effect on the tune, more thumpness and "Breathing" beat...

also, about that argument with dynamics... it really is pointless (the argument), you lose dynamics when you didn't have so many to begin with... if your track has loads of dynamics range you won't lose that much of it when done right... also another point i felt like mentioning, dynamics in music sense means loudness change of a single instrument, not the whole track, a thing that doesnt happen that often in EDM... i do get the point of leaving dynamics, but lets face it, its dance music and its loud, its supposed to be loud, and if the break down seems ruined by dynamics, just lower the volume on that (the instruments) till you get to a level which wont be affected by the mastering (there is a threshold for limiters and compressors).

anyway, i dont care for the mastering engineer, i do what sounds best for me, and if my track sounds great compressed, eq'ed and limited, than so be it, trust me that if a mastering engineer is a decent one he will know what to do, and if not, than just find a decent one.

Posted by Sonic_c on Jul-31-2008 07:14:

Posted by Vortex_SA on Jul-31-2008 07:28:

quote:
Originally posted by Sonic_c
Thanks man I have been mixing it so that it peaks perfectly at 0.0db without clipping and then running through ozone izotope and turning all the dynamics up then limiting it LOL at me eh? shows how much i know.

One more question assuming I want to make a modern electro(y) trance song about 138 bpm with big drums and glitches etc. I would start with the groove beat and bass. Then compress how i like it I think ok thats nice im happy so i go to add say a complex hi hat pattern or a instrument.

Why at this point does my bass drop and the drums lower?

cos sounds affect each other, every sound you'll add will affect all the others (and its specially felt with kicks), also keep your highs high-passed so that no frequency clashes will occur...

Posted by Sonic_c on Jul-31-2008 07:40:

So use say Q filter in cubase and roll of the Low and LOw mid frequencies keeping the high end is this correct sorry if this is dumb but i want to get this right in my head.

Posted by Vortex_SA on Jul-31-2008 08:02:

quote:
Originally posted by Sonic_c
So use say Q filter in cubase and roll of the Low and LOw mid frequencies keeping the high end is this correct sorry if this is dumb but i want to get this right in my head.

you can try that i guess, if you like your high hats high (in some tracks its on the more mid-highs), but in general high hats does not need to have low frequencies at all... and you can practice this through eqs too.

Posted by djandymac on Jul-31-2008 09:19:

quote:
Originally posted by sterilis
you cant send a track to a label in wav file at 0.0db its stupidity the label always asks for an unmastered wav version so it makes perfect sense to leave room for mastering.
not always true, the label im with have always asked for mastered versions from me.

Posted by Theran on Jul-31-2008 11:59:

quote:
Originally posted by Sonic_c
Why at this point does my bass drop and the drums lower?

This has to do with the frequencies your sound is on. Say for example that you have a kick that is at full on 80hz, and you have a bassline that plays full on 80hz, the sound with the highest amplitude will puss the other away.

There are several things you can do to prevent this:
- Make sure your bass isn't to loud (this will push away the kick) (or vice versa).
- Use panning on your percussion and drum elements (except for the kickdrum ofcourse)
- Use EQ on the different tracks (using the sample above, you can use an EQ to lower the 80Hz on the kick or the bass).

Most important is to adjust the volume levels of the elements in your track, this will prevent most of the problems.

Posted by sterilis on Jul-31-2008 16:35:

quote:
Originally posted by djandymac
not always true, the label im with have always asked for mastered versions from me.

well imo the more professional labels will do the in-house mastering. mastering your own tracks as everyone knows is touch and go. always better for an outsider to do so.

Posted by Vortex_SA on Jul-31-2008 18:32:

quote:
Originally posted by sterilis
well imo the more professional labels will do the in-house mastering. mastering your own tracks as everyone knows is touch and go. always better for an outsider to do so.

who is everyone? and what does a mastering engineer do if he makes tracks as well? let other one do his master? i don't think so...

Posted by Subtle on Jul-31-2008 18:44:

quote:
Originally posted by Vortex_SA
who is everyone? and what does a mastering engineer do if he makes tracks as well? let other one do his master? i don't think so...
Mastering is essentially just making the track sound good on all soundsystems, can you be sure you have the right monitoring and experience for that ?

And not too mention expensive hardware compressors that does not come near software.

Posted by sterilis on Jul-31-2008 18:48:

quote:
Originally posted by Vortex_SA
who is everyone? and what does a mastering engineer do if he makes tracks as well? let other one do his master? i don't think so...

ok if you make awesome tracks and master them to perfection great, give yourself a big pat on the back and a gold star. you are truly a legend!

Posted by Frequency Frank on Jul-31-2008 18:50:

Quick question about this, I usually keep my levels at -6db. Maybe 2-3 points in a track though, I'll get a random spike to like -4.5db. Is this a big deal from a mastering standpoint? I would imagine it's ok to do it this way as long as the typical level is low, so that there's headroom, but I'm open to suggestions

Posted by Beyer on Jul-31-2008 20:45:

quote:
Originally posted by Vortex_SA
who is everyone? and what does a mastering engineer do if he makes tracks as well? let other one do his master? i don't think so...

Most likely, at least giving the master to another ME to audition.

Posted by zodiac9 on Jul-31-2008 23:44:

Hey, Party Time, great track :P

Posted by Vortex_SA on Jul-31-2008 23:45:

@ Subtle - i can't be sure... no one actually can be sure on that... lets be even more philosophical hear, can you precieve a drawing like another person did? its difficult to say, at the end of the day the painter does what he feel is good...

and there are software compressors and vsts that gives a pretty good sound today, just cos a thing is analog and is expensive doesnt automatically make it better (makes it more exciting probably )

@ Frequency Frank - i think not, if it sounds good and leveled and the spike is something predictable and musical it should be ok IMO.

@ Beyer - giving someone else a listen to your track is essential for reference IMO, but thats not what i meant... if thats your job, and you are used to it and know what you want from the track, would you still give another person to master it?

@ sterilis - .

Posted by Subtle on Jul-31-2008 23:59:

quote:
Originally posted by Vortex_SA
@ Subtle - i can't be sure... no one actually can be sure on that... lets be even more philosophical hear, can you precieve a drawing like another person did? its difficult to say, at the end of the day the painter does what he feel is good...

and there are software compressors and vsts that gives a pretty good sound today, just cos a thing is analog and is expensive doesnt automatically make it better (makes it more exciting probably )

So you`re saying that letting someone else master is pointless, and that software compressors are just as good.

Well, that`s nice to know.

What if your track gets played at a big event, and some frequencies you didnt notice is tearing down the soundsystem ?

But sure, if you are a mastering engineer and a producer, you`d prolly master your own tracks, its not that hard.
But if a mastering engineer could do make the mastering better than you, wouldnt you want to have your track sounding the best as possible ?

Pages (2): [1] 2 »