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-- mac or pc?
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Posted by phoooo on Aug-05-2008 22:14:

mac or pc?

which one do you use for producing...?

Posted by Zombie0729 on Aug-05-2008 23:16:

awesome thread!

Posted by Ray_Chappell on Aug-05-2008 23:35:

quote:
Originally posted by Zombie0729
awesome thread!


Since the "i" button on my PC is hypersensitive and my "h" button my MacBook Pro is under-sensitive, my typing is kinda like...

"i. I'm a Mac."

"And Iiiiiiii'm a PC."

Anyway, what is better... vinyl or cd for spinning?

Posted by [Ocean]State on Aug-06-2008 00:10:

Pepsi or Coke?

Posted by phoooo on Aug-06-2008 01:57:

Posted by jupiterone on Aug-06-2008 02:37:

mac for music.

pc for gaming.

Posted by Eric J on Aug-06-2008 03:40:

Re: mac or pc?

quote:
Originally posted by phoooo
which one do you use for producing...?


OK, I'll bite....

I used to use Cubase on a PC, I recently switched to Logic on a Mac. I use Ableton Live for mixed CD's, laptop DJing and more recently as an outboard sampler on a second computer MIDI slaved to Logic. I'm a huge fan of Apple computers and have used them for making music for quite a few years now. However, I also used a PC for a couple of years with Cubase with great results. I've produced tracks on both platforms using a variety of DAW software and they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

Hardware differences are negligible in the modern era, as Macs are built with the exact same hardware components as higher end PC's. The only difference is that Macs in general use more expensive hardware by default in their standard offerings, but you also pay a premium for that. Trust me, I have done the research and if you build a PC out of the EXACT same components as you would find in a Mac, you would find that the cost is about the same.

Windows XP on a PC is fast and reliable operating system when properly tuned and taken care of. Mac OS X is stable, easy to use and offers tight integration with the hardware. Tey are about equivalent for the purposes of a DAW host OS.

Logic is an outstanding sequencer with INCLUDED instruments and effects that are second to none. The tight integration with the Mac OS X operating system and things like Core Audio and Audio Units are quite stable and extremely efficient. A weakness of Logic is the audio editing facilities are a generation behind some of the competing platforms. Audio editing and manipulation have always been a bit behind the curve in Logic. The workflow in Logic is extremely quick and the software itself is very intuitive once you get past the initial learning curve. One of Logics great strengths is its customization. Using the Environment in Logic you can create a near perfect model of your physical hardware and tailor it any way you want. No other DAW software offers this level of complexity in this respect.

Cubase on the PC platform is also an outstanding DAW package. Version 4 has really upped the quality of both the included instruments and effects plugins and they have added a ton of new features that addresses many of the common complaints from long-time Cubase users. The new included instruments in Version 4 are almost as good as the ones included with Logic and certainly much better than they were in Version 3. VST 3 is an outstanding plugin format with the addition of native sidechaining and it only uses up resources when their is audio passing through one if its plugins. The new Control Room feature of Cubase 4 is a really cool and useful feature that is not present in any other DAW package.

Ableton Live has got absolutely outstanding audio editing. IMO, the best audio editing facilities of all equivalent DAW packages. Live's versatility as both a tool for production and DJing make it an excellent choice for EDM producers in particular. In addition, Live functions identically on both the Mac and PC platforms. Those coming from either the Cubase or Logic world may find the workflow a little fiddly as first use, but once you get used it, most appreciate how well thought out it is an how it offers a fresh approach. Ableton allows you to get ideas down very quickly with a minimum of fuss, and that can be extremely important when inspiration strikes.

The point being, they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

If you want to use Logic, then obviously you'll have to spring for a Mac, since it is only offered on that platform, but do not think for one second that having one platform vs another or one DAW package vs another will make one bit of difference in how you make your music. Work with what you like and try everything out if you are not sure. There are Demo or Limited Edition versions of most software out there. The results will be worth it and you'll save yourself a lot of headache.

P.S. Not to dismiss you Sonar or Pro Tools users out there, but I have never really used either package, so I couldn't really comment on it. I have a couple of friends who use Sonar and they love it, so I'm certain its an outstanding package as well.

Posted by DJ Robby Rox on Aug-06-2008 04:10:

I don't know a lot about MACs but I do like Macdonalds. =]

Posted by Cetra� on Aug-06-2008 04:22:

Re: Re: mac or pc?

quote:
Originally posted by Eric J
Trust me, I have done the research and if you build a PC out of the EXACT same components as you would find in a Mac, you would find that the cost is about the same.


Your post was good except for this part

I use ableton for producing. I have a PC. I have OS X installed (hackintosh all the way!) but haven't tried logic. I enjoyed cubase but it was shite for beatmatching loops etc.. so I made the switch to ableton since I was pretty comfortable with that.

My only beef over Cubase is the 128 parameter limit which has sparked enough publicity to get changed pretty soon.

As far as I'm concerned though. I don't think one is capable of making music better than the other.

This is another one of those personal preference arguments.

Posted by Eric J on Aug-06-2008 05:18:

Re: Re: Re: mac or pc?

quote:
Originally posted by Cetra�
Your post was good except for this part


OK, here is the breakdown:

Mac Pro Dual Quad-Core 3.0 with 2 GB RAM.

Here are the tech specs on this machine:


Total Cost: $3,599.99

Here is an equivalent Home built PC:


Total Cost: $3,576.61

So the PC is a whopping $20 cheaper, and that doesn't even take into account the fact that some of the components are not directly comparable. The motherboard I speced out isn't exactly comparable to the Apple board because Apples boards are custom designed (from Intel). The motherboard I speced also does not include the same peripherals. It does not include the 2 FW800 2 FW400, 5 USB or the TOSLINK audio ports, where the Mac Pro does. By the time you buy PCI cards to add these features, not only have you taken up a few extra PCI slots, but the cost is going to certainly go above the standard configuration price of the Mac Pro. A 2 FW800 + 1 FW400 PCI card is $37, so with that addition of that you are now at $3,613.61 which actually makes it a bit MORE expensive than the Mac Pro and you still do not have the same number of peripheral ports.

Now, you can finagle with some of these specs. You can buy a bit cheaper case, maybe a lower power supply, maybe eliminate the wireless card and save a few bucks, but the point of this post is not to say one is better than the other. The core components (CPU, Motherboard, etc.) are not going to have a huge price variation, and that's where most of your money is going. I'm simply showing that from a hardware standpoint, the cost of a Mac vs. an EQUIVALENT PC is approxamately the same. Mac Pro's are essentially server-class machines, so you have to build a server-class PC to compare the two, and that's going to cost a bit more.

Posted by Cetra� on Aug-06-2008 05:41:

Re: Re: Re: Re: mac or pc?

quote:
Originally posted by Eric J
Mac Pro's are essentially server-class machines, so you have to build a server-class PC to compare the two, and that's going to cost a bit more.


Maybe...


Where do you get your prices? They're a bit expensive..

Posted by kevin shawn on Aug-06-2008 08:12:

I'm running Logic on my Hackintosh, spent a whopping $800 building it.

How many hacks do we have out there? I thought I was the only one on here!!

Posted by csfp on Aug-06-2008 10:22:

The hardware question doesn't make much sense cause for the first time you can run windows on mac and hacked osx on pc.

So its rather a question of which OS suits you better. I know for sure that Vista is not my cup of tea.

Another thing to consider is reliability of your h/w setup, you can be sure that a Mac system is well built. If you can do a similar one yourself you can save some funds, but on the other hand you can never be sure until you try components together. I know quite a lot about IT and PC architecture, but my most recent PC is only semi-reliable and as always in those cases, the problem may be everywhere and nowhere ... so its always a risk.

So if you want OSX, you may want it for 2 main reasons : 1) you hate windows (or have/had some issues with it, like most users) 2) you want to work with Logic. If any of those is true, than give osx a try, if not i'd stick with windows/cubse 4.1 combo.

I just recently switched from PC+cbs sx3 to Mac+Logic 8 and there are some pros, but there are some cons as well. First of all, Cubase 4.1 is more feature-packed and some of those features are a dream of Logic users (like sample accurate audio editing, envelope stuff and so on), on the other hand, Logic has tremendous effects and synths on board (way way better than cbs) and with Logic Studio you get an outstanding value for money.

I hope at least some of it makes sense

Posted by Eric J on Aug-06-2008 12:41:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: mac or pc?

quote:
Originally posted by Cetra�
Maybe...


Where do you get your prices? They're a bit expensive..


Just googled them.

Posted by Cetra� on Aug-06-2008 13:20:

Fair enough.

OS X runs like a gem on my PC. I haven't had any issues with it. Well that was until i updated it and it destroyed my custom image. Was a bit hard finding drivers for my video and sound card but everything else worked off hand.

But having said that, most OS's are the same hey. I think though if you get an OS X then you will use that for a specific purpose and be more focused on producing rather than doing everything else also. Whereas if you have a PC you can easily load up a game or anything else that isn't mac-runnable.

It would be more like buying a piece of hardware dedicated for production.

I have never thought of getting a mac though. My PC does the job fine at the moment and I haven't run into any limitations that would be solved by switching over. Well, that is apart from getting maybe a mac book pro since those laptops are pretty beasty devices.

Posted by jupiterone on Aug-06-2008 15:56:

well you can run some pc apps on mac with crossover. i recently did it with Steam, now i can run Counter Strike and Team Fortress on iMac.

Posted by Zak McKracken on Aug-06-2008 16:53:

is it possible or does it exists a demo of logic to PC? i think logic is the way to go for me as i hate cubase, and ableton seems CPU-hard. also plan to run some hardware. but im very unsure about the whole mac thing... just bought an ipod and im already pretty angry on apple how they force u to go all the way. ive also tryed hackintosh without luck to try logic before buying, would anyone help me with that over msn? abit stuck in reason lately and im starting to get tired of it.

Posted by Eric J on Aug-06-2008 17:20:

quote:
Originally posted by palm
is it possible or does it exists a demo of logic to PC?


There is no currently available version of Logic for PC. The last version of Logic for PC was Logic Platinum 5.5. That version is not really suitable for testing your user experience with Logic in it's current form as many thing have changed.

quote:
Originally posted by palm
just bought an ipod and im already pretty angry on apple how they force u to go all the way.


While this can be a pain for some, there are actually a few distinct advantages to this for producing. Core Audio and MIDI are an integrated part of the operating system, so that makes it very fast, efficient and stable.

Posted by Zak McKracken on Aug-06-2008 19:01:

maybe ill start saving then. also i found some "smaller" version of logic 8 extremely cheap, but it doesnt clearly states whats missing, it seems to have everything i need realy. thoughts about that?

Posted by Eric J on Aug-06-2008 19:10:

quote:
Originally posted by palm
maybe ill start saving then. also i found some "smaller" version of logic 8 extremely cheap, but it doesnt clearly states whats missing, it seems to have everything i need realy. thoughts about that?


You may be referring to Logic Express. Here is what Logic Express lacks:

what express 8 lacks

-no surround capabillities
-no node (distributed audio processing)
-no support for some (pretty expensive) control surfaces
-no tdm support

instruments:
-no evb3, evd6,evp88... ( trivia: i know that Dr. Gerhard Lengeling - logic's developer -loves these instruments,when he is not playing the real thing with his band he loads these instruments from logic)
-no sculpture

plug ins:
-no surround plug ins
-no delay designer
-no multipressor, adaptive limiter
-no match eq
-no binaural post processing plug in, no multimeter
-no convolution reverb (space designer)
-no down mixer plug in

-no waveburner

I'd spring for Logic Pro personally. The exclusions are pretty compelling and worth the extra cost.

Posted by Zak McKracken on Aug-06-2008 19:36:

yeah eq, delay, reverb and compressors are the most important tools so if their missing it cant realy be used to anything. surround is crap tho.

Posted by Eric J on Aug-06-2008 19:43:

quote:
Originally posted by palm
yeah eq, delay, reverb and compressors are the most important tools so if their missing it cant realy be used to anything. surround is crap tho.


Well they are not ALL missing, but some of the most advanced ones are. Space Designer alone is worth the extra cost.

Posted by csfp on Aug-06-2008 22:53:

To be honest I don't really know why people get so excited about Space Designer, I prefer all the rest of reverbs and can't really get a proper hold of this plug. Am I missing something ?

And while going for Logic, make sure you buy Logic Studio, its well worth the extra cost I can assure you

Posted by Zak McKracken on Aug-07-2008 15:28:

what about HD-type? I have all my old projects and samples on a external ntfs-disk. how can I make that HD work on both mac and PC?

Posted by Eric J on Aug-07-2008 15:43:

You can mount a Windows share from a Mac.


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