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-- what's the point of panning

what's the point of panning

hey guys i was wondering why and when i would want to pan something. the only time i have hear of it being used is to correct a conflict of frequency from two sounds, which doesn't seem like the best idea.
is there any other times i would want to do this?
thanks

oh yeah and i meen for dance music, i know in rock the guitars get panned pretty hard.

Re: what's the point of panning

quote:

Originally posted by lowski hey guys i was wondering why and when i would want to pan something. the only time i have hear of it being used is to correct a conflict of frequency from two sounds, which doesn't seem like the best idea. is there any other times i would want to do this? thanks oh yeah and i meen for dance music, i know in rock the guitars get panned pretty hard.

i sometimes pan one hihat to the left and on to the right and it fills out the sound , and with effects to get the appearance that it shoots from one side to the other. other sounds pan also to give a sense of width

Panning and reverb give depth and breadth to a song. If you read any music engineering document they will mention the use of it.

If you listen to any song, you will hear stuff being panned.

Re: what's the point of panning

quote:

Originally posted by lowski hey guys i was wondering why and when i would want to pan something. the only time i have hear of it being used is to correct a conflict of frequency from two sounds, which doesn't seem like the best idea. is there any other times i would want to do this? thanks oh yeah and i meen for dance music, i know in rock the guitars get panned pretty hard.

It just creates more space in the mix. High frequencies are more suscpetible to panning, meaning they'll sound hard panned without much actual panning. Its not usually used on kicks and bass but its often used to give more space to stuff like cymbals, hats, pads, leads etc.

I recently learned a lot about this so ill share with you

The human ear is a very acute sense. We gage everything that is around us with our ears. For example right now I am in my office I can hear without looking where people are in the room on the phone etc. Imagine what it would be like for me if all those people were speaking from exactly the same direction and distance how could I tell who was who? or where they were?

We subconsciously reference everything we hear against what have learned from our experiences. As a result our emotions change and we react differently to where we here a sound coming from.

Imagine that you are camping in the wood alone and its dark. Extreme granted but you here a twig snap somewhere in front of you your reaction would be to get ready in case something is coming. Now imagine instead of hearing it in front of you, it comes from immediately behind you I�m sure your reaction would be very different you might run or jump at least.

Its the same with music we imagine music to be coming from a stage or at least some location in front of us. We call this imaginary stage the soundscape If we use a band for example. We are expecting things like the drums to be coming from the drummer usually in the middle this goes for the bass too we are also expecting the vocals to be centre stage so these things sound natural in the middle. The reason the music has some depth is that the guitarist or trumpet player or whatever might be to the left a little and the keyboard player to the right this gives us a three dimentional soundscape from which to appreciate the music with.

Its the same with trance you try panning the kickdrum to the extreme right and the vocals or main lead to the extreme left it will undoubtedly sound silly and unnatural. Put these both in the centre and it will sound natural but a little flat so we do subtle things like pan different hi-hats to the left and right as they appear on a drum set for example. We position our leads and melodies a little to the left and right to give a bit more depth.

It can also be used to help things pull through the mix panning allows us to have more room for individual instruments on each channel as the speaker is not moving so much in the freq on that channel.

Some trance artist get creative and automate the pan to swirl around you whilst parts of your mix remain constant. This is great with pads or fx it gives space and adds to the euphoric effect of moody sections of a song. It also serves to keep the listener entertained and makes the song seem less static.

To summarise this is vital to creating a realistic and professional �live� sounding production. So get creative with fx etc and consider the example of a band on a stage when panning, also consider how your emotion changes when you hear different sounds from different places.

I hope this helps

You've been making really good posts.

Normally I expect people who are new to the forum to ask questions that have already been answered a thousand times rather than helping other people out, but you're definitely an exception to that.

Lol i started off asking questions about stuff that had been covered before that but the forum regulars quickly got annoyed with me so I thought that I would start trying to share what i know too!

the panning puts an element into the right channel or the left channel or something in between. u wonder whats the point of that? well whats the point at all realy?

Whats the point of stereo ?

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Whats the point of stereo ?

Is this a rhetorical question, or are you actually asking?

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Is this a rhetorical question, or are you actually asking?

rhetorical, its the same question really.

because you only listen with your ears, not through you ars....

whats the meaning of this life
lol
panning

I dont know if this is right, but I think of the track in a kind of 3d. By adjusting levels, eq's and pans you can get sounds to sit in the mix alot better, rather than everything being dead centre.

In a nutshell, it's one of the tools you need to make sounds work together, although I wouldnt use it on kicks and the sub-bass etc...

Not sure if im right though! lol

quote:

Originally posted by palm whats the meaning of this life lol panning

LOl

sonic c that did actually help a bit . i have done things like having pads panning from left to right. and also use to delays and having each panned to the opposite side so that the sound ping pongs around . but when i to dance music in headphones alot seems to be center with maybe slight panning. i never really hear anything being panned too hard, like with rock music. as for panning drum?, i have never really liked the way it sounds, unless its percussive sounds like bongos and stuff. i like to keep the kick, bass, snare and most hats in the middle. as for panning dance drums like there a rock or live kit just sounds wierd to me, since the drums are so synthetic
eitherway i will be more aware of panning when i'm listening to other sounds to help get a better understanding.
thanks for the feedback

One of the things I have found is that, since I have been producing (albeit, not very well! lol), I tend to hear more of a song. For example, previously I may of listened to a song and not thought anymore of it, but now I can hear little things that are panned (some soft, some hard) and also how the levels effect your mix etc.

You may find it useful, to open one of your songs with quite a few bits going on at the same time, ie beat, bass, percussion, pads, leads, plucks and some fx. Pan them all centre, set them all at the same volume too. Solo say both lead and pluck channels and play with the panning and volume to get them sitting well together (also need to play with eq really), then repeat the same with some of your other parts, ie you may have your clap panned at -32 or something and your hats at +16, and keep at it until everything fits together and different sounds are not competing for the same frequency range.

Thing to bear in mind I think is that you have so much room to play with on your left and right, so try and get an even amount on each channel, for example you dont want lots of quiet sounds panned left and then just one thing loud on the right channel, try to keep it even.

some monitor-control systems have a mono button. its always good to check if your track sound good in mono too.

stereo, spacing, mixing and more

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c I recently learned a lot about this so ill share with you The human ear is a very acute sense. We gage everything that is ...

great post from someone new to the forum! great to see someone with an attitude like this too! welcome to the forum, hope you have a pleasant stay, although the posters here are a bunch of rude people, but if you get to know them, some of them are really great guys

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c I recently learned a lot about this so ill share with you The human ear is a very acute sense. We gage everything that is around us with our ears. For example right now I am in my office I can hear without looking where people are in the room on the phone etc. Imagine what it would be like for me if all those people were speaking from exactly the same direction and distance how could I tell who was who? or where they were? We subconsciously reference everything we hear against what have learned from our experiences. As a result our emotions change and we react differently to where we here a sound coming from. Imagine that you are camping in the wood alone and its dark. Extreme granted but you here a twig snap somewhere in front of you your reaction would be to get ready in case something is coming. Now imagine instead of hearing it in front of you, it comes from immediately behind you I�m sure your reaction would be very different you might run or jump at least. Its the same with music we imagine music to be coming from a stage or at least some location in front of us. We call this imaginary stage the soundscape If we use a band for example. We are expecting things like the drums to be coming from the drummer usually in the middle this goes for the bass too we are also expecting the vocals to be centre stage so these things sound natural in the middle. The reason the music has some depth is that the guitarist or trumpet player or whatever might be to the left a little and the keyboard player to the right this gives us a three dimentional soundscape from which to appreciate the music with. Its the same with trance you try panning the kickdrum to the extreme right and the vocals or main lead to the extreme left it will undoubtedly sound silly and unnatural. Put these both in the centre and it will sound natural but a little flat so we do subtle things like pan different hi-hats to the left and right as they appear on a drum set for example. We position our leads and melodies a little to the left and right to give a bit more depth. It can also be used to help things pull through the mix panning allows us to have more room for individual instruments on each channel as the speaker is not moving so much in the freq on that channel. Some trance artist get creative and automate the pan to swirl around you whilst parts of your mix remain constant. This is great with pads or fx it gives space and adds to the euphoric effect of moody sections of a song. It also serves to keep the listener entertained and makes the song seem less static. To summarise this is vital to creating a realistic and professional �live� sounding production. So get creative with fx etc and consider the example of a band on a stage when panning, also consider how your emotion changes when you hear different sounds from different places. I hope this helps

Yes I was one of those regulars, and this was a good post
I really think of panning in much more intuitive terms, this way of working is probably a good one for anything ambient, sound FX and movie scores. Not so sure if it applies to dance music since its quite hard to make something sound like its behind you as far as I know, and really hard pans sound wierd in clubs. Its an interesting idea anyway, and definately has some applications even in dance.

I definately agree with you when you say that a band on stage produces sounds from different places. Panning is one of the main ways we seperate on sound from another, so its very important for space in a mix. If you find yourself needing more definition from an instrument, you might try panning it a little rather than just turning it up, wich leaves you with more headroom etc.

I basically just think in terms of; anything that needs to be very attention grabbing will be in front, anything less important can go to the sides. Panning two different sounds to either side (as in your original example of rock guitars) can make a sound more fat, but also reduces its presence in the mix, meaning you need to turn it up more. This is often also done with vocals, where three vocal tracks will be used. I don't like the sound but it is common practice. Also, basses can actually be panned a bit, if they're mid basses, but not sub basses. It depends on how many bass elements you have in your track. If for example, I had a guitar and a rollng bassline, I might well pan them both off to opposite sides to give each more definition....

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