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-- Theo Parrish Inteview (or racism in dance music)
Theo Parrish Inteview (or racism in dance music)
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| Q: Before there was Elvis and rock and roll there was “race music” and Chess records. Before there was Benny Goodman there was ragtime and blues. Given the long standing pattern of “black roots, white fruits” in western music, has dance music fallen prey to this concept more or less than other genres in history? A: I wouldn’t say its ‘fallen prey’, Id say this has been going on so long, its expected to eventually happen in every known musical discipline, but that doesn’t make it less of a crime, or less irritating. Today, things are just more complicated in terms of the way people try to coexist, but when you get down to basic social dynamics, its not different. The music industry , like most huge industries, is owned by white men. Black men and women(musicians) tend to provide the labor(talent) that makes the product(songs). This isn’t a mystery and nor is it shocking since everyone white, black and otherwise living in the western world lives their respective lives with slavery as a backdrop to everything they do. White folks at their worst will deny it, Black people at their worst will use it as an excuse for stagnation. White people at their best will know of the historical imbalance socially, and act with that in mind when dealing amongst each other and with black folks. Black people at their best will know what is stacked against them, stay motivated anyway, and try not to let cynicism eat them when they deal with White people and each other. I don’t believe in genre titles. I don’t think they actually describe any kind of music accurately, but I do know the industry uses these divisions to sell stuff and pimp people. In the music industry, each genre has its own pre set roles for Black people to play a part in. Hip hop/rap :as long as your theme is materialistic, violent, or sexual, you can get in. W’ell allow no more than 5 conscious acts per 100(The Roots/Common/Talib Kweli/Mos Def/Lauren Hill. We’ll allow one white rapper per 1000, but he’ll be massive.(Eminem) We’ll fool you into thinking you’ll make some money, and you might if actual sales out do the enormous advances we’ll give you, which is rare. You’ll mainly get paid from tours. You’ll use our management who’ll suggest our lawyers, who’ll sign you up for our suggested stock options, real estate purchases, and life insurance policies. If you get bored with the content of your output and threaten to change direction as an artist , well threaten to pull your budget. If you’re less materialistic than that or if you are so successful that large amounts of black men with guns and not much to lose listen and believe everything you say, If you recognize that and are smart enough to possibly have a plan for them, we’ll have you killed, make you a ‘hood’ martyr, and make money off your product for decades long after your gone. Were not trying to be sponsors of a revolution here…(Tupac/Biggie) Rock/ alt: You can be a black lead singer, but must have a white band (Rufus&Chaka Khan/Tower of Power). Your content absolutely must not have anything to do with social injustices or race, period.(Hootie and the Blowfish).But you can be an all white band with a socially responsible message(Rage Against the Machine) Or of course you could be a white lead singer with a black band, but its a harder sell. Well allow it. Its an easier sell if its a White girl with a culturally mixed backing band(No Doubt). We’ll allow 3 all black bands per 1000, but we’ll create a subgenre for them ,Rastarock. (Living Colour/Bad Brains/Fishbone)Reggae: Industry still making money off of Bob Marley and his kids, and they’ll probaly keep doing so until their kids pick up instuments. Hence, no new industry supported reggae acts, tons of underground subgenres, though. Country music: not an option, you’re not allowed. R&B: No problem, come on in. No social commentary. Black Sex/love/fun songs only. You must sing and dance, and later sell various soda & automobile products as well. High school graduates a plus. We’ll create a subgenre called neo soul for all of the older, smarter, more talented(D,angelo/Angie Stone/Jill Scott). with a much more limited budget. Pop/commercial: Love/fun/sex songs only. No social commentary. You must dance.You must stay in top physical shape. You must never get old(Madonna). We’ll allow 1 black male artist from R&b to crossover at a time into this genre(Usher) Jazz: anything goes, but well have subgenres for every possible variation not a real moneymaker anymore, so we (the industry) don’t care, you’re not gonna get much of a budget. .Gospel: content must be god oriented of course. But no sexuality and no instrumentals and theres a subgenre for white artists in gospel, Christian contemporary. As for commercial dance music: we’re not allowed. White skinny dudes from the uk or france are preferred(Jamiroquai/Moby), but generally an underground dance artist has to do commercial dance numbers for us to care.(Goldie/Carl Cox) Underground dance music, which is not controlled by the industry directly, is where we exist, but also have a lot of control, because to get music out we have to start our own labels usually. But the copying goes on here the worst. We don’t have a lot of protection against thieves because their aren’t a lot of lawyers, because there’s usually just enough money for the artists to survive on, unless you helped father the form. There aren’t managers suggesting to artists to do white versions of black songs, but there are white artists with labels doing it on their own. This is one of the few places a thief will try to copy your music, then send it to you calling it a tribute in hopes of you endorsing it. They’ll find the sources of your samples if you use them, and use them verbatim, then try to cash in on your previous successes. The Black producers in this form are a lot closer knit, so there’s a lot of respect for the other producers doing it, and there’s a shared philosophy of innovation as a supreme ethic, you simply would lose respect from your contemporaries if you tried to use the same sources as they did for sampling. The thieves, usually white, are typically the culprits of this phenomena. Its almost as if they want to convince the buying market that since they sampled from where you did then they must be just like YOU, only white! Once they get it ready to put out, they’ll use pictures of little black children, and black women with afros- things they never could be, and never have been -on their cover art to help complete the illusion of having a truly down, soulful product to offer the market. Sometimes they’ll outright sample YOUR song, and copy your drumpattern, send it to a magazine and some adjective limited writer will say the copy sounds ’so-and-so esque’, never making that artist stand on their own, letting the thief who made it ride on the back of original artists. The curtain that supposedly hides all this is the bullshit illusion that dance music has no race, no gender, that its about the celebration of some sort of utopian concept. This mere notion wasn’t even circulated until some white folks were made to feel uncomfortable at a party they had no business being at, and came face to face with the fact that this music like all other music is originated on african/black experience, and that perhaps they were very much like every other Elvis and Eminem that ever came or went, That perhaps they too, are tourists, but they still want to be superstar-dj-such-and-such. The issue is that its simply too easy to get into dance music without having to pay dues in dedication. There are a few non black underground dance artists that simply have gravitated to the form because its as free a musical form as you can get. They don’t even care who their music sounds like, they are just trying to express themselves honestly and truthfully. I’m not talking about them. They are rare and appreciated. They are original. Whatever success they garner is deserved. So, in a nutshell, its more like black roots, black fruits, stolen seeds studied, copied and planted… That’s life in the western world. That’s how I see it. |
Damn. No COR version in MD. I'll have to read this one later when I'm feeling up to it. 
While I largely agree with him on the creative issue with respect to a lot of popular music, including dance music, surely he realizes that the phenomenon of labels fucking over artists has been happening to people of all races ever since labels began, simply because the business mentality and artistic mentality have very little in common, and the former will often outwit the latter in an economic arrangement due to its single-minded focus on the bottom line.
The label bosses are worrying about what they think will sell, and historically many of them have unfortunately thought that people would only buy black art if it fit into certain categories or was performed by a white person, as he notes.
late '80s-style affirmations of black nationalism sprinkled over truisms regarding the music industry. nothing interesting here.
and since when are rage against the machine an "all white band"?
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| Originally posted by Konijn and since when are rage against the machine an "all white band"? |
"The curtain that supposedly hides all this is the bullshit illusion that dance music has no race, no gender, that its about the celebration of some sort of utopian concept. This mere notion wasn’t even circulated until some white folks were made to feel uncomfortable at a party they had no business being at, and came face to face with the fact that this music like all other music is originated on african/black experience, and that perhaps they were very much like every other Elvis and Eminem that ever came or went, That perhaps they too, are tourists, but they still want to be superstar-dj-such-and-such."
This guy is a fucking idiot. I'm so tired of this black oppression crap. I googled this guy and it looks like he's doing rather well. He has some tour dates and a good bit of releases, more than most white dj/producers.
wow
you just revealed yourself as musically ignorant and culturally bigoted
I thought the "tourists" thing was a bit much as well. Remarks like that are as needlessly antagonistic as referring to black or Asian musicians or listeners as "tourists" in the domain of classical music.
You can recognize that one race originated an art form without simultaneously brushing off anyone else who tries to have a crack at it.
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| Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I thought the "tourists" thing was a bit much as well. Remarks like that are as needlessly antagonistic as referring to black or Asian musicians or listeners as "tourists" in the domain of classical music. You can recognize that one race originated an art form without simultaneously brushing off anyone else who tries to have a crack at it. |
it began ... in africa-ca-ca-ca.
heh.
music today borrows from everything from classical music, irish folk music, to asian music, latin music or middle eastern belly dancing, etc etc, all of which was born and bred with zero african influence. he's putting way too much stock in black influence, its just one source of ideas, not all of it comes from black people.
the original detroiters bitching and creating conspiracy theories is a recent phenomenon. they really need to quit this bs, its making them look bad. we're just tolerating it because of all the respect we give them for supposedly inventing techno. someone needs to tell them to start making good music again or stfu.
they're getting cranky because everyone's copying off them now and they're not getting anything
i thought this was one of the best points theo made:
| quote: |
| The thieves, usually white, are typically the culprits of this phenomena. Its almost as if they want to convince the buying market that since they sampled from where you did then they must be just like YOU, only white! Once they get it ready to put out, they’ll use pictures of little black children, and black women with afros- things they never could be, and never have been -on their cover art to help complete the illusion of having a truly down, soulful product to offer the market. Sometimes they’ll outright sample YOUR song, and copy your drumpattern, send it to a magazine and some adjective limited writer will say the copy sounds ’so-and-so esque’, never making that artist stand on their own, letting the thief who made it ride on the back of original artists. |
Well, most popular music today really did get its basic inspiration from the music of African-Americans. The harmonic vocabulary is mostly borrowed and simplified from European classical tradition (although there are some African influences in melody as well from blues etc.), of course, but the real backbone of most pop and dance music, the rhythmic content, is definitely African in origin.
Although even the rhythmic content is very much simplified from the original African traditions.
Pop music is basically a combination of dumbed-down versions of two different traditions, European harmony and African rhythm.
I'm sorry - but I can't really agree with what he's saying.
Sounds to me like he's got a very large chip on his shoulder. While I respect him for what he's done, the tone of this whole interview is one of total biterness towards white's in music.
The problem with dance music is - more or less everything has been done that can be done so it's obvious that producers are going to start copying each other, it's been going on for years, but I don't think it's a problem which is soley caused by whitey.
efdemin told me in detroit that he once sampled a kenny dixon jr track and that kdj threatened him and now he stays away lol
omar s is another militant detroit guy. on one of his tracks on underground quality he goes by 'DJ Snotinburg' lol
I thought this discogs user made a great post refuting theo's comments:
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| In the beginning, there was jack, and jack had a groove. And from this groove came the groove of all grooves. And while one day viciously throwing down on his box, jack boldy declared, "let there be house!" And house music was born. WRONG! "I don’t think they [genre titles] actually describe any kind of music accurately, but I do know the industry uses these divisions to sell stuff and pimp people." I am, you see, I am the creator, and this is my house! And in my house there is only house music. But I am not so selfish because once you enter my house it then becomes our house and our house music! And, you see, no one man owns house because house music is a universal language, spoken and understood by all. WRONG! "This music like all other music is originated on african/black experience...this bullshit illusion that dance music has no race, no gender, that its about the celebration of some sort of utopian concept. This mere notion wasn’t even circulated until some white folks were made to feel uncomfortable at a party they had no business being at." You see, house is a feeling that no one can understand really unless you're deep into the vibe of house. House is an uncontrollable desire to jack your body. And, as I told you before, this is our house and our house music. Again, WRONG! And in every house, you understand, there is a keeper. And, in this house, the keeper is jack. Now some of you who might wonder, "who is jack, and what is it that jack does ?" Jack is the one who gives you the power to jack your body ! Jack is the one who gives you the power to do the snake. Jack is the one who gives you the key to the wiggly worm. Jack is the one who learns you how to walk your body. Jack is the one that can bring nations and nations of all jackers together under one house. You may be Black, you may be White; you may be Jew or Gentile. It don't make a difference in our house. Again, WRONG! "This bullshit illusion that dance music has no race, no gender, that its about the celebration of some sort of utopian concept. This mere notion wasn’t even circulated until some white folks were made to feel uncomfortable at a party they had no business being at." And this is fresh!!" |
And this is Scott Ferguson's reply (white owner of detroit ferrispark records)
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| Wow! I could really go on about this all day. I’m just going to rant for a bit. I start off by saying that I think European and American perspectives on Black music are very different. I mean for one, some of the greatest jazz musicians had to go to Europe to play their music because Americans thought it was just “crazy Black shit” You can say the same about ‘Blues’ and ‘Rock N Roll’. (and yes African- Americans invented both, along with country, ragtime, swing, Disco, and most ideas of minimalism in composition) In America it took someone like ‘Elvis’ mimicking African-Americans to push Rock n Roll into American mainstream. Eminem for hip - hop. In Europe bands like Cream, Led Zepplin, and the Rolling Stones were outright ripping off black American music. The difference was is that they admitted it. All those bands were fans of what they were hearing from Black musicians in America, in fact it was what was inspiring them! They were not pretending to have come up with Rock N Roll. With Dance music its a whole other ballgame. Simply because Americans don’t know or give a shit about dance music weather it be Richie Hawtin or Derrick May. But I must admit that it took someone like Moby (white guy) to even begin to push it into the American mainstream culture. So when electronic music becomes mainstream in America you can count on it being a white boy who is the center of attention. I believe that a lot more Europeans know who Derrick May is. With that said, I believe Europeans know a lot more about African- American music. Check pop charts in England and France during the 60’s/70’s. (I could be wrong about all this) Major labels push white artists in America due to the value of their marketability. African-Americans only consist of 11% of americas population. Who do you think makes Jay - Z rich? Certainly its mostly white people. In fact why do you think it is that a African American rapper who talks about clubbin, money, and fuckin bitches makes more money then a rapper talking about the war in Iraq or social justice for African Americans? Most of white America doesn’t want to hear that shit, they want something that you don’t need to think about, something that is about what they like. Clubs, fucking, and money. Let’s face it, American mainstream culture would completely not exist without African-Americans yet American mainstream culture would never except African-Americans being responsible for creating it. White Americans have virtually made no original music, they have only twisted or copied African-American music. Who the hell wants to admit that? Certainly not the ‘greatest nation on earth’. Well I’ll tell you who wants to acknowledge it, Theo Parrish and many other African-Americans creating and inventing music. Also, I do! I was inspired all my life by music that Black people in America created and invented. I copy and mimic Black music every time I make music. I want my music to be like their music, and why wouldn’t I, its the root of almost all music I have loved my entire life . It was said that talent is talent. This is very true. White people make good music, Black people make good music, Latino, Middle Eastern, etc. All are capable of making good music. Every last culture and color can make good music. In fact the worst shit is as good as the best. It makes someone somewhere happy. It also teaches me what I don’t like and what I do like. The main difference is who has the money to market it to, and who is most marketable to a target audience. Is Richie Hawtin’s music uninspiring, unoriginal, and soulless because he is white? Fuck no, its inspiring, original, and soulful! Its black music! Don’t believe me. How is it that a blues song could be just a few tweaked A-scale notes that provoke so much emotion, that resonates with so many other human beings sadness. Its so minimal yet reaches the most complex inner workings inside a human beings soul. Is it not true that a few minimal notes tweaked on a modified 303 also resonates with so many human beings souls. Ritchie just feels what he does. You have to respect anyone white or black for creating (even if they are coping or mimicking) what is inside their soul. I gotta run… [Going out for beers] I hope this isn’t to sloppy. I was just mainly stating that I agree with mostly everything Theo is saying as well as you guys commenting but felt I needed to add my 2 cents. |
"Is Richie Hawtin's music uninspiring, unoriginal, and soulless because he is white?"
I really thought he was about to call Richie out.
One thing that bothers me, often implicit in threads like this one, is the idea that black people have some kind of pseudo-mystical or biological connection to any music created by other black people, and only they can do it properly, while nobody ever talks about Asians or whites having any analogous connection to the elements used in the musical forms they've created, or any supposed "special abilities" that they possess to create music in those styles.
well this is a dance music forum and people of african descent have pioneered a lot of good dance music
we could talk about asians if this were a board for martial arts and/or meditation
i guess if we were on a messageboard about cartoons we could talk about the japanese
and if this were a modern architecture messageboard maybe we could talk about the swiss, french, and germans.
i think those are sentiments you have added into the discussion, that are not necessarily implicit.
i would be the first to admit my musical and cultural background is completely related to my difficulty making funky music. most of my stuff tends to be atmospheric and grooveless. my mom made me listen to soft rock, synth pop, and new age when i was too young to do anything.
lol, he appears to be the only racist.
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| Originally posted by nefardec i think those are sentiments you have added into the discussion, that are not necessarily implicit. |
| quote: |
| i would be the first to admit my musical and cultural background is completely related to my difficulty making funky music. most of my stuff tends to be atmospheric and grooveless. my mom made me listen to soft rock, synth pop, and new age when i was too young to do anything. |
when blacks invented blues, jazz, rock etc, they were ripping off white people music in the first place for their creations to even have been invented. the same exact way hip hop artists sample rock or other popular white music and incorporate it into their tracks, this same thing happened when they invented blues, jazz, rock etc. they took instruments we used, sounds we used, etc and put their own spin on it. they ripped off us, we ripped off them.
even if theo wins this argument, does he really want to win this one? it will just add more racism into white's psyche; blacks are better athletes and now they are better at music because every form of popular modern music is because of them? when blacks are considered for a job opening, white people will think "oh well you know they're good at basketball and good at making dance music and heck every type of music us white people like is owed to them ... but chemical engineering? nah, pass on this one".
+1
why is this even an issue? are people really this petty? who invented music?
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