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DJ vs. DJ/Producer

In the past month I think I've had no fewer than three conversations that have all included something to the effect of:

quote:

You're a good DJ, but you'd be great if you produced.

quote:

If you only applied yourself [to production], you'd go so much further.

etc.

To which my reply has been: "Oh well."

I know the industry in general has turned towards favoring producer DJ's because they can sell something beyond a night in a club - but I don't think I'm alone in saying that the amount of mediocre DJ/producers littering the scene has only grown exponentially as the ability to produce music has become easier and easier.

That's not what I'm here to talk about. What I'm wondering is when it became such a bad thing to only want to be a good DJ?

I have no real interest in producing music, especially the music I play. I like that I can find stuff by guys who don't perform their stuff live, I like painstakingly crafting promo mixes, I like getting loose on the decks in a club, and in general, I just like to DJ, and to learn as much as I can to make myself better at it.

Perhaps I've just encountered the wrong folks, but it really seems like there isn't any value placed on this anymore (at least in a broad sense).

I'm definitely open to the possibility that I'm just totally wrong here and basing this on my own experience - but meh, the thought of why the value of a DJ may have gone down seemed at least a bit interesting to me.

You should produce because you're inspired to, not because the market pressures you to. Sure, it's a good marketing tool - but so is dying your hair green and mixing with bare tits. Fuck that.

there's no value in a guy that just plays records. He won't be able to bring out a crowd without some name or recognition in the producing world. Get used to it.

Re: DJ vs. DJ/Producer

quote:

Originally posted by RJT What I'm wondering is when it became such a bad thing to only want to be a good DJ?

I would say it happened around the same time the whole EDM "scene" jumped into the Sarlacc pit creatively.

quote:

Originally posted by KiNeTiC ENeRgY there's no value in a guy that just plays records. He won't be able to bring out a crowd without some name or recognition in the producing world. Get used to it.

Isn't that the question I'm asking though? Or rather, why there isn't any value in that anymore beyond the question of finance?



I'd say I'm quite used to it at this point, but that certainly doesn't mean I also won't question the trend.

I go to concerts to hear people play their own music, I go to nightclubs to hear a variety of electronic music. Not saying that's how it is for anyone else, and it's clearly not what happens.

quote:

Originally posted by KiNeTiC ENeRgY there's no value in a guy that just plays records.

There just aren't that many people who would appreciate that anymore, and also many DJs probably don't have the patience to slowly gain reasonable amount of respect just by playing records, when they have the opportunity to make it happen with yet one another Faxing Berlin overnight.

It seems to work the other way around too, though - if you're "only" a producer and don't DJ/perform live you're nothing. Sure, someone might play your track a couple of times but it gets tossed aside after that.

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews There just aren't that many people who would appreciate that anymore, and also many DJs probably don't have the patience to slowly gain reasonable amount of respect just by playing records, when they have the opportunity to make it happen with yet one another Faxing Berlin overnight.

I suppose this is all fairly obvious, but that doesn't make seeing it in writing any less irritating.

There's just so much "here today, gone tomorrow" bullshit out there, that really the only guys I see with staying power are people who've been playing Chicago/Jackin' house here in the Midwest for a decade or so. Those fellows have worked a long time to carve out their niche, and regardless of whether or not I like the tunes they're playing, I can respect the effort they've put into what they're doing.

Sure, every year or two there are a few flavors of the moment who are play regularly for a while in any given scene - but 9/10 times they're forgotten once whatever trend they're seizing upon at the moment moves on to the next thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery It seems to work the other way around too, though - if you're "only" a producer and don't DJ/perform live you're nothing. Sure, someone might play your track a couple of times but it gets tossed aside after that.

Also a good point - which I think probably lends credence to the whole "the world of electronic music is homogenizing at an unreal rate" argument.

In a nutshell i think its
"ill buy that record that bloke played last night"

Or

"im gonna go out and buy that record by Dj RJT ,
He dropped it last nite and it was really good"

Cool
" I must go and see Dj RJT sometime"

And so on and so forth

I guess it's just unfortunate that so many people seem to buy the fallacy that talent in one area will necessarily translate to the other.

I'm definately with you on this one. I remember listening to a James Talk interview a couple years ago and he had pretty much the same sentiments, IIRC.

I fucking love RJT (the dj, not the producer)

In reality, everyone has a different way of approaching music making or music involvement for that matter. Some might have gotten into making music by accident and I hope I don't sound redundant by saying this but, in my opinion, the best music out there grows organically from scratch over the months and years.

In addition, those 'noises' or 'patterns' you've made should be kept, there are no accidents in music. (not referring to accidentals in music theory, stupid ****s)

quote:

Originally posted by RJT I guess it's just unfortunate that so many people seem to buy the fallacy that talent in one area will necessarily translate to the other.

Maybe not , dont you sometimes wish that you could see everyone grooving to music you made?

People with multiple talents are just more appreciated than people with a single talent. Now if it's mediocre or not that's a matter of opinion most of the time.

THEN AGAIN, you take guys like Burridge, Howells, Digweed, Pappa who rarely ever produce and they are the guys to beat on the decks. So I guess it must be a matter of how many contacts you have, and your charisma.

of course this is all in the assumption that DJ RJT is a good DJ...

just kidding buddy.

anyway, wanted to bring up the fact that a lot of times, especially true out here in baltimore, nice lounges that have smaller capacity will keep resident DJs that don't necessarily produce their own music. I mean sure they dabble here and there, much like myself, but nothing substantial on beatport or crap like that.
one of the main reasons i've made the switch from progressive, and in turn more "club", house or music - and went over to the more soulful and deep house side is because 80% of my gigs have come at small, lounge/ultralounge/bar with an outdoor patio venues since they can't afford, and don't really want to, bring in name-recognized artists.

i have my own local supporters, that like what i play, and will show up randomly on the weekend to check out one of my gigs. i also have a group of friends that appreciate what i play and come out to check me out - much like i support my own friends that are DJs.

conclusion - i think you're limiting the whole DJ experience to the big venues and clubs, when it couldn't be farther from reality. there are a lot of ... "niches" to be found and filled by different types of DJs. if you want to sell out venues of 2,000+ or whatever, then yes - you should probably produce music.

^disregard all that, i think i'm a bit off point and really rambled. it's that kind of day (mid-work-week).

quote:

Originally posted by adi_hanson Maybe not , dont you sometimes wish that you could see everyone grooving to music you made?

I kind of feel like I already get to experience that as a DJ. It's why I play the kinds of records I do, because I do feel like I'm interacting with the crowd in a meaningful way.

To me, while a good DJ isn't creating or composing new music - what they can do with preexisting tracks is many times far more interesting than half the tracks produced and released these days.

quote:

Originally posted by diggerz I fucking love RJT (the dj, not the producer) In reality, everyone has a different way of approaching music making or music involvement for that matter. While some might have gotten into making music by accident and I hope I don't sound redundant by saying this, but the best music out there in my opinion, is that which grows organically. Those 'noises' or 'patterns' you've made should be kept, because there are no accidents in music. (not accidents in music theory, stupid ****s)

<3 you too Enrique

And yeah - what you've said above is probably the best way of stating my own opinion on it.

Personnaly i don't have a problem with someone that only dj, producing only for the sake of producing is in most cases a bad thing, that being said a good dj that also produces good shit will always have more merit that a good exclusive dj and that's fair i think.

I don't think you completely grasped RJT's vision of music making philosophy

quote:

Originally posted by RJT Isn't that the question I'm asking though? Or rather, why there isn't any value in that anymore beyond the question of finance? I'd say I'm quite used to it at this point, but that certainly doesn't mean I also won't question the trend. I go to concerts to hear people play their own music, I go to nightclubs to hear a variety of electronic music. Not saying that's how it is for anyone else, and it's clearly not what happens.

because any kid with a credit card can buy tracks from Beatport and become a "DJ" There's too many bedroom DJ's in Clubland all claiming to be the next Tiesto.

quote:

Originally posted by denys envy conclusion - i think you're limiting the whole DJ experience to the big venues and clubs, when it couldn't be farther from reality. there are a lot of ... "niches" to be found and filled by different types of DJs. if you want to sell out venues of 2,000+ or whatever, then yes - you should probably produce music.

To be honest, those are the gigs I actually pursue much, much harder. I haven't even tried to find bookings with Vision, Smartbar, etc. in Chicago at this point just because I don't care enough about being out at them to warrant expecting the bookings I used to get.

I don't know - I guess this really wasn't so much about me not having gigs as it was about the general trend towards favoring DJ/producers as opposed to DJ's, the only reason I added my own experience is because that's what spurned the thread.

I guess I envy you for being able to have conversations with that many people that even understand the difference between the two.

Also, the scene is filling up more and more with pricks with no talent that couldn't play a decent set to save their lives (yes Mr. Durand, this means YOU!). Pricks whose only chance to get a gig is either to:

produce a track that resembles whatever the kids are eating up, make it big with that and then DJ to brain-dead audiences who will jizz over any piece of crap.

or

Be best friends with Armin.

/rant

I'm glad that producer/dj's have gotten popular. It gives a lot more variety to the music being played out. These guys are going to end up playing tracks that they are working on or have just finished, which means you won't be getting that from anyone who just djs.

quote:

Originally posted by DOOMBOT I'm glad that producer/dj's have gotten popular. It gives a lot more variety to the music being played out. These guys are going to end up playing tracks that they are working on or have just finished, which means you won't be getting that from anyone who just djs.

With the sheer amount of music out there, a decent DJ should not have to rely on his own productions (or even try terribly hard) to play something that you haven't heard before.

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