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-- I learned Levels this past week
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I learned Levels this past week
I was always wondering why my mixes didnt sound up to par with those big name dj's
well.....a few days ago it clicked in my head 
Before I would do a mix and I'd have trouble with a track coming into Loud or to Soft/Low...well here's what i figured out 
....
ok...one of the tracks is playing and you can see the LED's or whatever you wanna call it jumping up and down....
queueing the other track in my headphones >> I see that the LED's on this channel are somewhat lower then the one currently playing....i adjust the gain for this channel to match the LED's up
now they are both level>>bring in the track and VOUALA 
the mix is level
hehe
To think it took me 5 years to think of this
EDIT: Here's a sample......hehe Click Here to Listen
The whole mix is posted in the Amateur DJs & Music Producers Promotion forum
Thanx for the tip man but unfortunately I can't do anything about it cause my shitty mixer has only one LED display for the master output, in order to do that what does your mixer have to include? a LED display for the headphones?
either that or leds for each channel
I posted a sample for you guys to listen to
its in the original post
| quote: |
| Originally posted by P`zazz Thanx for the tip man but unfortunately I can't do anything about it cause my shitty mixer has only one LED display for the master output, in order to do that what does your mixer have to include? a LED display for the headphones? |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by TranceGeek either that or leds for each channel |
OMG, thank you man. I was wondering about that the other day and couldn't for the life of me get the 2 LED's to match. Now I play with the gain and it works!!! haha, I can't believe it!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DJ-Kuza OMG, thank you man. I was wondering about that the other day and couldn't for the life of me get the 2 LED's to match. Now I play with the gain and it works!!! haha, I can't believe it! |
Holy smokes
you mean to tell me you didnt know about that?
LOL
hehe, thats the main reason you got the cue meter for each channel...
hehe, well I have some mixes that are ok, but I have no web space. I was using the EQ's to try and keep the music at the same level. But with this new knowledge I'll make a new one and try to find hosting.
if you don't have LED's on ur mixer.. u can always listen in your headphones mix to see if one track is louder than the other..
I thought it was basic knowledge that everything in this thread was one of the first things you learn. Guess I will need to include this when helping other DJ's in future.
Thing is my crappy Gemini mixer hasn't hacked the pace and one of the channels which has a volume meter has been damaged. Now I have to use one of the channels which doesn't have a volume meter, didn't realise how much I depended in it until this happened 
Well I don't have a meter for the cueued track, but I just use the level sliders for mixing instead of the xfader, so I just do the same thing as I mix - bringing the channel up as far as sounds good.
Well, in fact the level meters should average around 0dB for optimum sound.
I said average, because tunes are different in many ways.
But the most important aspect of the tune needed to set correct levels is the amount of compression used on the track.
Maybe you've noticed, when you watch the meters, that on some tunes, the meters don't move much let's say 5dB at most, and on other tunes the vumeter will be jumping big time. In the first case, there will be a considerate amount of compression applied on the track, in the second case, the compression will be more moderate.
In what aspect is this important? Well as a dj you want to make the mixes as smooth as possible, and the first step to that is to have a continuous volume.
The compression applied on a track will have a great effect on that.
An example :
Let's say you use a tune that is compressed to death, let's say 3 dB of dynamics. You adjust the gain until the meters hit up to 0dB (just for this example). So most of the time the level will fluctuate between -3 and 0dB.
Now you want to throw your next tune in. But that one uses very moderate compression. Let's say the dynamics of this tune is 10dB (again these figures are just for the example). If you would adjust the second tune the same way as the first (the meters hitting 0dB on maximum), you'll see the levels will fluctuate between -10 and 0dB. Ok, at this moment you'll have noticed that the continuous volume of the second tune is much lower. You see, the second tune will only have short bursts at max volume (which you had set on 0dB), but the AVERAGE volume will be lower as the first track.
That's why, when setting your levels, you should adjust the gains until the level meters AVERAGE at 0 dB. Average is the word here, not the peaks.
So basically this means that the 0dB should be about the center of the region where the level fluctuates around. If you got a tune with moderate compression, it's ok to let your peaks go up to +3 or even +5 dB, as long as you don't clip.
This method of working is for most dj mixers as they use VU meters (vumeters are slower than peakmeters, they show the average volume). For mixers with peakmeters (like the Dateq GPRM), you should watch your average carefully.
If you want exact broadcast references (useful for recording), just run a 1000 Hz tone through your system and then set
Analog Vu-meter 0dB = -9dB analog peakmeter = -18 dB digital peakmeter (depending on the country this can range between -20 and -12 dB on the digital peakmeter).
Of course you don't have to be THAT precise , but I just state this because it pisses me off to see so much club dj's constantly pushing the mixers in the red. Remember, if you want more volume, get better speakers and amps. Pushing the mixer in the red only adds distortion.
lol - that's what the gain is for
man i can't believe some people didn't know about the gain?! haha
i personally rarely touch the gain unless its absolutely needed (i.e. the track im bringing in is pressed veeery quietly)...instead ill keep both gains at aboutthe same level and mildly turn down the volume of the live track...not enough to notice, but very slowly so that i can mix in my next track moderatly
or i will lower the volume on the live track (that is louder) and slightly raise the main volume? why you ask?
well some mixers (like my own) have the gain control on the back side of the mixer where all the jacks go in...the reason for this is so clubs can mount hte mixers and the djs can't fuck around with the gain
its good to learn different methods that suit different environments (this goes for all aspects of dj'ing )
yea its pretty hard to believe but it just never occured to me
well..Ive basically learned to dj by myself. So there was never anyone to show me what to do and what not to do....basically learned by listening to mix tapes
where i live there arent too many dj's and untill recently I did not know anyone (personally) who spun the same type of music as I did (on of my best friends now 
)
yes i used to do it without using the gain controls....but it sounds soooo much more proffesional when done using them...because your basically just guessing....as appossed to being right on with the gains 
hmmmm, what mixer you guyz got? I have my eye on the vestax pcv-275 but from the pics it doesn't seem to have output levels for every channel.
Nice mix
Whats the name of the first track, its kinda cool.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by P`zazz hmmmm, what mixer you guyz got? I have my eye on the vestax pcv-275 but from the pics it doesn't seem to have output levels for every channel. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Dmatrox Nice mix Whats the name of the first track, its kinda cool. |
some mixers just dont have the LED lights on the channel - in that case, you need to adjust the level in your headphones using the pre-fade listen..... and it takes a bit of practice to get them right... but it is also more accurate to do this with your ears rather than lights.
but... the lights make it so much easier. my new mixer will have them... but my current (POS) doesn't :|
*wishes he wasnt stuck at work and could go get his new mixer from the maildrop*
-mer
Have any of you ever run into a scenario when you have the LEDs matched up for the 2 songs, but for some reason, when you're actually doing the mix, one song comes out louder or softer than the other? I don't know if it has something to do with my mixer or what not. I have a Numark 3002X. Because of this, i find that the easiest way to keep the volumes equal is to not even look at the LEDs and just try as best as you can to match the volumes in your headphones.
DJ Thy had a lot of good points to listen too. I've got a couple to add to that! First and foremost remember that the amount of bass (how hard it hits and how low the frequency goes) is the majority of the LED signal on the mixer volume levels. Given that, the bass is also the most noticable sound when it comes to volume changes. This is because the bass beat in every song is usually the same exact beat repeated over and over and it is consistent throughout the whole song (except for breaks etc). And not only in timing, but in volume too! Therefore making the bass beat the same volume on both tracks is one of the goals of making a good transition.
There are two problems with this. First, not all bass beats have the same depth. By depth I mean the frequency range that it hits. Some beats might be 50Hz to 100Hz for example, while others may be 75Hz to 90Hz and still others may be 10Hz to 110Hz. The lower the frequency goes and the larger the range is, the louder it will be, and hence the more it will spike the volume when the beat hits.
The second problem is that if you set a track that has a very small and/or high frequency/frequency range on the bass beat, you might potentially clip the higher frequency end of the track because you have to turn up the gain on the track to get the LEDs to hit 0Db.
I correct thess problems by using the average volume of the track at its loudest point, not just the bass beat. My live track should already be cued up to the average volume from the last mix, but I find the average volume of the cue track by spinning it to the middle of the track and finding a chorus (usually the loudest part of the track by far). Then I set this level to peak at 0Db.
This solves both problems in one for two reasons. First, because this will set the Maximum volumes of the two tracks to equal each other. Secondly, the track is much louder during the chorus of the track and the begining of almost every trance track I spin starts off with nothing more than a bass beat. Since you are eliminating all of the other instruments, the INITIAL volume that you mix in with on the cue track will actually be slightly lower than the volume of the live track.
You may be saying this is not good, I have the problem now that there is a volume drop when I mix. But you are also forgeting that most tracks end the same way they begin...with nothing more than a bass beat and maybe a hi-hat etc. In general the absolute volume of the bass beat will be constant throughout the whole track (and therefore the transition too if you adjust it correctly), let's say -2Db. This means that when the other instruments come in, they don't overload the mixer and clip. IE) The total volume of the track will go higher than -2Db, but you don't want it exceeding about +4Db otherwise you will start to clip.
In summary, This technique is good because your bass beats will have matching volumes. Don't forget, you need to give your dancers a break too, and during the transition, it is just that--a transition! If you phase the tracks up right, the chorus of the live track should end and 0, 4 or 8 (usually anyway) beats later, the cue track should hit its chorus. This way, the drop in volume you may experience (from the elimination of other instruments) is minimised. You don't want to loose the energy from the track, but you also do not want to give your audience a heart attack by not giving them any lull in the music!
Anyway, I hope that in being technical, I helped people out and didn't confuse them!
Although I agree with most of you guys, in my opinion the level meters should only be used as quick reference to set the levels of the tracks approximatively. It's not like you should mix by constantly looking at the meters.
Don't forget our ears are way more sensitive than most meters. Use the meters only to set gains approximatively. But once this is done, you can even forget about the meters. When mixing, trust only your ears.
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