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Blue collar guys, masculinity, etc.

In the "dating a nerd" thread, Squirrely said that "nerds = emotional problems, and then went on to say that she likes a different kind of guy: "Big lifted truck, hunting, fishing, works outside." The type of guy one might call "uncomplicatedly masculine." That made me think of something Camille Paglia said:

quote:

There is a disastrous problem with sexual identity at the elite schools. I don't know whether the young women see the kind of young men who are going to these schools as very sexually aggressive or intrusive, but that is not the case. From Williams to Brown to Yale, the young men are fresh faced, genteel bourgeois boys who were raised in professional households with very active mothers. They are boys with good manners, boys who are very sensitive, boys with their masculinity hardly visible. When I teach in Philadelphia at Art School, and then go up to Harvard, the difference is hilarious. On the streets of central Philadelphia, I see real men, African-American men, Italian-American men from South Philly, real masculine men, and that's a compliment. They have no doubt about their sexual identity....It's hilarious that the virulent anti-male rhetoric is coming out of the Ivy League schools where there is not a virile masculine man in sight.

Looking around me at my school (not Ivy League, but a pretty similar upper-middle-class-and-higher demographic), it does seem to me that a lot of guys, maybe the majority, are basically "nerd lite" -- not very "physical," not very aggressive, and almost kind of "deferential" toward women.

And then I thought about the times I've gone to rivers in south Texas and seen a lot of "blue-collar" kind of guys with military-issue hair cuts, big tattoos on their arms, and faces red from being out in the sun and drinking cheap beer. These guys seem to be "comfortable" with a certain prototypical aggressive, physical "masculinity" in a way that most of my upper-middle-class uni peers are not.

So, a few questions to talk about :

(1) Women: Do you like "blue collar" type "manly men" over more "academic" or "white collar" men?

(2) Are blue collar guys actually more "masculine-seeming" on average than guys who come from a higher income background, or am I misperceiving the situation?

(3) Is there something about growing up in a sheltered suburban environment that "planes down" a guy's personality and ensures that he'll always look out of place at a construction site?



(4) Is modern culture tending toward a feminization of men?

They just want big fat cocks.

protip: i'm from Philadelphia, ladies

Re: Blue collar guys, masculinity, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles So, a few questions to talk about : (1) Women: Do you like "blue collar" type "manly men" over more "academic" or "white collar" men?

yea

quote:

(2) Are blue collar guys actually more "masculine-seeming" on average than guys who come from a higher income background, or am I misperceiving the situation?

not always the case. you can't really answer this question on behalf of the entire group of each men. there are plenty of white collar men who love sports (play them) and can cook a mean steak on the grill and fix the kitchen sink when it breaks. and then mon-fri they wear a shirt & tie to work and do happy hour.

and on the flip side, don't always assume that a blue collar "manly" guy who does construction isn't smart either. my guy is a contractor and generally a "mr. fix it" type of guy who doesn't even own a tie or dress shoes, but he is extremely smart. he & his partner buy chemicals at home depot and experiment with making some sort of fuel lol they actually got one of the jet skiis to run on it. they were talking in french and he was trying to translate what they did so i can't really explain exactly what they did but i was impressed. he's no dummy at all. but he drinks miller lite and works with his hands and has tools and i love it.

he's also very affectionate and romantic. i like a little bit of both types of guy in my men. he's not a total beer guzzling, "make me a pie" type of masculine guy. he's a nice mixture. it's all about finding that happy medium.

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(3) Is there something about growing up in a sheltered suburban environment that "planes down" a guy's personality and ensures that he'll always look out of place at a construction site?

yes lol

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(4) Is modern culture tending toward a feminization of men?

yes. and it's gay.

As a man do you like aggressive, manly women with deep voices and ripped bodies? Now can you better understand why women don't like passive, effeminate men with girly voices and frail bodies?

You don't have to be a ripped lumberjack, you don't have to be fucking Lobo, but at least be a man. That's what heterosexual women are attracted to. Stand up for yourself, have confidence, be strong, etc.

I'll fucking smack a bitch

quote:

Originally posted by Akridrot As a man do you like aggressive, manly women with deep voices and ripped bodies? Now can you better understand why women don't like passive, effeminate men with girly voices and frail bodies? You don't have to be a ripped lumberjack, you don't have to be fucking Lobo, but at least be a man. That's what heterosexual women are attracted to. Stand up for yourself, have confidence, be strong, etc.

exactly. it shouldn't be about what they do, even though sara and i were totally stereotyping lol at the end of the day though, it truly is about the personality and how they carry themselves and treat their lady.


oh and if they buy you things and make you cum a lot too

Re: Re: Blue collar guys, masculinity, etc.

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Originally posted by Slylee and on the flip side, don't always assume that a blue collar "manly" guy who does construction isn't smart either.

Funny, I said nothing about intelligence.

Re: Blue collar guys, masculinity, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles (3) Is there something about growing up in a sheltered suburban environment that "planes down" a guy's personality and ensures that he'll always look out of place at a construction site?

Re: Re: Re: Blue collar guys, masculinity, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Funny, I said nothing about intelligence.

but you used the term "academic" and are generally discussing stereotypes and images. i was just trying to prove a point that stereotypes aren't always true.

Re: Re: Blue collar guys, masculinity, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Slylee he & his partner...

gay.

I've been reading in the news that taking birth control can cause women to go for more manly men than they normally would, and also changes the scent that they are attracted to. Anyone know anything about that?

In the same way that most (almost all) men would not like the nerdy-hairy-with-glasses type of women but the other super-sexy-model type.


I guess that economic background may have a strong role but i need to further think about that lol.

academics don't go hand in hand with white collar folk but imo white collar academics ftw but definitely not effeminate

My boyfriend goes to school and to the gym and has an awesome job and a hot car and makes me cum.

Oh and when I talk to him about stuff I learn at uni he partakes avidly in the conversation.

He's a really good son and loves his nieces.

He thanks and kisses my mom after dinner at our house.
He brings beer over to drink with my dad.
He's super confident and has amazing social skills.

And he teaches me things and makes me a better person.

And when he stands with his arms crossed he looks like a bouncer.

I love him <3

quote:

Originally posted by Ania_xox My boyfriend goes to school and to the gym and has an awesome job and a hot car and makes me cum. Oh and when I talk to him about stuff I learn at uni he partakes avidly in the conversation. He's a really good son and loves his nieces. He thanks and kisses my mom after dinner at our house. He brings beer over to drink with my dad. He's super confident and has amazing social skills. And he teaches me things and makes me a better person. And when he stands with his arms crossed he looks like a bouncer. I love him <3

barf.

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN In the same way that most (almost all) men would not like the nerdy-hairy-with-glasses type of women but the other super-sexy-model type. I guess that economic background may have a strong role but i need to further think about that lol.

i always found the girls with glasses thing slightly comical. a friend of mine and i learned if we wanted to go out clubbing and not be hit on at all we would wear our glasses. and it worked like a charm. it's crazy because my friend is truly beautiful and once the glasses are on no looks whatsoever. guys are dumb...

/tangent

calloused hands
















































vagina











































/thread

Re: Blue collar guys, masculinity, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles (2) Are blue collar guys actually more "masculine-seeming" on average than guys who come from a higher income background, or am I misperceiving the situation?

Theory has it that culture defines men as active and women as passive. Masculinity is associated with action, and so the physical action of using your muscles and working up a sweat is more masculine than sitting at a desk making electronic numbers move around.

Also, in this country (and I imagine it's the same everywhere) the lower, working classes have a culture of masculinity. Working class, blue collar guys are generally more aggressive, more homophobic and more competitive with each other. This is possibly because liberal values of tolerance and gender liberation don't filter down to the less educated working classes.

quote:

(3) Is there something about growing up in a sheltered suburban environment that "planes down" a guy's personality and ensures that he'll always look out of place at a construction site?

You can always tell a genuine working class man by how broad his shoulders are. I grew up in a mining village and everyone has broad, working class fathers. I go to university and everyone has accountants and teachers for fathers, narrow shouldered, thin-wristed people. There's a difference between a physique sculpted by hard labour and one carefully regulated in a gym, and there's no faking it. That extends to behaviour too. The only way you can look at home on a construction site is if you actually work on a construction site.

quote:

(4) Is modern culture tending toward a feminization of men?

I don't know if I'd call it feminisation, but it's certainly rendering useless all the attributes of masculinity. All the aggression and competition programmed in to make good hunters is pissing away in an officle cubicle with people telling it that it's just a social construction. The irony. I think feminine attributes of communication are more at home in the information age.

Re: Re: Blue collar guys, masculinity, etc.

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Originally posted by Echo of Silence 4) I don't see this. I think more men are allowing themselves be less hung up on macho-ism and this is probably a good thing.

This.

I think blue-collar guys are often less cerebral and compensate by being more macho, whilst white collar guys can be more comfortable with their own abilities and don't see the need to posture.

I hate overly masculine guys, no common ground, dull to be around.

Yay! Let's get pissed, watch sport and shout offensive remarks at random ladies that aren't even attractive! I can't think of a better way to spend an evening

/emofagareth

quote:

Originally posted by kr00t0n Yay! Let's get pissed, watch sport and shout offensive remarks at random ladies that aren't even attractive! I can't think of a better way to spend an evening

Being masculine and half interesting are not mutually exclusive.

"We're a generation of men raised by women. Sometimes I wonder if another woman is the answer we need"

this is all, referring to the subjectivity of sexual attraction, just a problem of accumulating history. every generation propagates a shift in the expectations and realizations of sexual attraction.

we just live in the nexus of this a la mass media and targeted advertising. living in the year 2008 we get the benefit of all the experiences and social movements of the previous years.

this is globalisation 2.3. there are no rules anymore with regards to sexuality which is cool. the fact that we can think about this shit, like a decision regarding what qualities are more attractive, and then conjure some strange mash up of Darwinism/modern psychology to justify its realities, makes thinking about these topics nonsensical, because modern advertising saturation has tweaked our minds out

so fuck it. just keep on playing that music loud and the blunts burnin and the bankroll in sterling pounds or gold bullion

I am a blue collared dude with white collared dreams. I think I'm more manly then alot of dudes but I'm also a sucker when it comes to girls. bolp..i dunno

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