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How to set up a hardware studio

Ok if i dont explain properly excuse me

Current set up

Cubase sx
Reason 4
M-audio midi keyboard
Microkorg

I am going to purchase a control surface and a hardware compressor and a hardware 32 band eq.

Now I know how compressors work etc this is not what i am asking. I have only ever used software I can wire up reason to anything i want so If its the same i am fine.

I want to know how to set it up so that I can compress say channel 1 drums or side chain channel 2 with bass etc.

Control surface is midi right? so cubase can record my movements etc so control surface goes into my midi box (I think this is right)

Now I have 1 output on my sound card and 1 input. Do I have to solo whatever I want to compress have the out of my system going to the compressor and then connect the out of the compressor to the in on my sound card and record?

Can I buy a multi out sound card so I can have 16 outputs drums on one bass on 2 etc and have the compressor on whatever channel I want.

Do I need a patch bay? what is a patch bay? Fuck this must be simple but I cannot understand.

Simple version

How do I integrate a compressor into a mainly software system and be able to use in a simialr way to reasons compressor

Which converter do you have?

I have a phonic midi converter I am going to buy a behringer conroller

I think he is asking about your analog to digital converters. Basically, all the outboard hardware isn't going to amount to a hill of beans without good ADC.

Re: How to set up a hardware studio

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c Ok if i dont explain properly excuse me Current set up Cubase sx Reason 4 M-audio midi keyboard Microkorg I am going to purchase a control surface and a hardware compressor and a hardware 32 band eq. Now I know how compressors work etc this is not what i am asking. I have only ever used software I can wire up reason to anything i want so If its the same i am fine. I want to know how to set it up so that I can compress say channel 1 drums or side chain channel 2 with bass etc. Control surface is midi right? so cubase can record my movements etc so control surface goes into my midi box (I think this is right) Now I have 1 output on my sound card and 1 input. Do I have to solo whatever I want to compress have the out of my system going to the compressor and then connect the out of the compressor to the in on my sound card and record? Can I buy a multi out sound card so I can have 16 outputs drums on one bass on 2 etc and have the compressor on whatever channel I want. Do I need a patch bay? what is a patch bay? Fuck this must be simple but I cannot understand. Simple version How do I integrate a compressor into a mainly software system and be able to use in a simialr way to reasons compressor

Firstly why do you want to go outboard? As in what are your reasons? Please explain...

I ask because from your post it seems that you are not sure what outboard is or how to go about it, and that can be a lot of unnecessary wasted money.

Please don't take this the wrong way - I'm trying to help....but Someone who doesn't know what a patchbay is should not be considering buying a cockload of outboard gear, at least not yet anyway.

Why do you want a 31 band graphic eq? Not the first choice if you want an eq for regular studio applications.

If you want to send multiple discreet channels to a compressor, then yes, you will have to get multi I/O interface, unless you want to do everything in passes, but this is a pain in ass and won't let you hear tracks effected together.

By the way, not all control surfaces are midi. Some are mlan, some ethernet and some proprietary interfaces.

What control surface do you want and if you don't know that, what do you want from a control surface (just faders and pans or multiassignable knobs?)

Dont be patronising mate I want to go hardware because I want to be able to assign knobs to my most used functions. i want to add that live (ish) feel to my mix I want to do real time effecting and not keep clicking around and stuff. I enjoy the feel of hardware faders and I like the sound of the compressor I am buying. I like the side chaining too. Patch bay obviouslly used for routing audio.

I want to save cpu power I want to be precise with my eqing list goes on.

I can wire reason up properly I mean i know more than most about wiring reason so I am not a noob just never set up hardware and want some advice.

Not gettin defensive here just dont jump on with an opinion about my ability when I am just asking for configuration help.

I

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c Dont be patronising mate I want to go hardware because I want to be able to assign knobs to my most used functions. i want to add that live (ish) feel to my mix I want to do real time effecting and not keep clicking around and stuff. I enjoy the feel of hardware faders and I like the sound of the compressor I am buying. I like the side chaining too. Patch bay obviouslly used for routing audio. I want to save cpu power I want to be precise with my eqing list goes on. I can wire reason up properly I mean i know more than most about wiring reason so I am not a noob just never set up hardware and want some advice. Not gettin defensive here just dont jump on with an opinion about my ability when I am just asking for configuration help. I

Dude, I said I'm just trying to help and understand your situation - not patronise. Please understand, a lot of us on here have been doing this a long time and seen so many people buy the wrong kit for the wrong reasons.

You can understand that someone saying they are going to buy a compressor and a 31 band eq but asking what a patchbay is in the same sentence could easily lead someone to think you don't know what you're talking about. I'm not being facetious here, right?

I already understood why you want a control surface, because that is the only reason why someone would want one (to give a hands on feel rather than clicking the mouse etc.). What I'm asking is do you want the surface to be really simple (i.e just have faders and a knob for each channel like the Behringrer BFC2000) or do you want a do all surface (such as the Euphoix Artist MC Control), which has complex mapping and assignments?

You do realize that with an outboard compressor, you will only be able to run one set of inputs to it at a time right? Not like reason, OK?

So if you have a setting on your compressor for your drums and sent them as a group, you can't then decide to send your vocal as well as the transients will react differently for each signal.

So as an example, to send a track (or group etc.) you will have to have a multi I/O soundcard, so the drums get sent out from 1 + 2, to the compressor, and come back on inputs 3 + 4, which are the inputs on the track you have armed for recording. To compress different tracks, with different dynamics (and therefore different compressor settings) you will either have to do them one at a time or buy another compressor if you want to do them simultaneously.

Also, wanting to save CPU power shouldn't really be a reason for buying expensive outboard - there are many many ways to increase/optimize your processing power without thinking about how you can buy gear.

If you want to be really precise with your eq get a parametric - 31 band is not the way to go, if that's your prime requisite.

If it's going to be a control surface and not a full mixer, why would you need a patchbay? A control surface just sends and receives control data to/from the computer - no audio involved.

Also, I forgot to mention that some control surfaces are just USB or Firewire.

Again, I'm trying to help, but the more reasons (except the compressor) you give for why you want to buy this kit you have listed makes me think you have not really thought these choices through - please don't take this the wrong way.

Ok mate i see your being cool. The control surface is seperate I just want hands on feel and the behringer 2000 is what i am getting.

So you answered my question If i but a compressor and eq i just run sound to it and then back into the pc and record. Thats fine thats what I wanted it for. The comp I am buying has 2 compressors plus 2 side chains so thats enough especially if i am doing it one at a time. I really like hardware mate I love the feel the sound the look I like the way it feels like more live etc.

Outboard sound processing is the way I want to go I think Just wanted to know if I would have to run it to the unit then back in and record or if i could just use it as if it were in reason.

thanks for advice man sorry for gettin tetchy

What compressor and EQ are you buying? If its behringer then I give up hope on you my padawan.

Oh, and If your thinking you'll do stuff in passes, its gonna sound rubbish and slow you down something shocking.

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c Dont be patronising mate I want to go hardware because I want to be able to assign knobs to my most used functions. i want to add that live (ish) feel to my mix I want to do real time effecting and not keep clicking around and stuff. I enjoy the feel of hardware faders

use a midi controller, and dedicate it to a certain plugin.

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c I like the side chaining too.

you're going to buy hardware just for sidechaining?



i'm going to be patronising. have you had much experience with hardware? it doesn't sound like you have any idea what you are talking about. read my post and have a good think about it, because i sense you're about to waste a lot of money...

hardware is good for synths because we have patch editors and so forth that make them easier and more flexible to use. you have no such thing for hard compressors/eqs. once you commit certain compressor/eq settings, that is it - you're stuck with it. in this day and age, this is a really shit way of working, especially when all you're getting out of it is a few knobs to touch.

hardware for eqing? wtf man? in softare we have infinitely more powerful eq tools, such as linear phase and so forth.

behringer bcf2000s are crap, i have owned one. in order for a control surface to be even slightly useful, it must have a parameter read out (eg. novation remote sl or mackie).

the only time i can see hardware effects really being worthwhile is for mastering, because then the ability to recall the settings isn't an issue. likewise, if there is a certain sound you can't get in software (such as a really warm analog compressor), then it might be worthwhile too. hardware fx are also probably useful where you use the same settings in all songs... considering you don't even understand what a patchbay is, i don't think you're ready to bring hardware into your workflow. tbh, i think hardware effects are too much of a hassle for ANYONE heh.

my advice - buy some midi controllers and set them up specifically for your favourite comp/eq plugins. that way you can get your jollies by touching knobs, without sacrificing your workflow.

alternatively, look into buying something like the focusrite liquidmix - it gives you a dedicated control surface for dsp-powered compressors/eqs.

in regards to mixer controllers, don't waste your money on that behringer shit. get a novation or mackie controller.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm use a midi controller, and dedicate it to a certain plugin. you're going to buy hardware just for sidechaining? i'm going to be patronising. have you had much experience with hardware? it doesn't sound like you have any idea what you are talking about. read my post and have a good think about it, because i sense you're about to waste a lot of money... hardware is good for synths because we have patch editors and so forth that make them easier and more flexible to use. you have no such thing for hard compressors/eqs. once you commit certain compressor/eq settings, that is it - you're stuck with it. in this day and age, this is a really shit way of working, especially when all you're getting out of it is a few knobs to touch. hardware for eqing? wtf man? in softare we have infinitely more powerful eq tools, such as linear phase and so forth. behringer bcf2000s are crap, i have owned one. in order for a control surface to be even slightly useful, it must have a parameter read out (eg. novation remote sl or mackie). the only time i can see hardware effects really being worthwhile is for mastering, because then the ability to recall the settings isn't an issue. likewise, if there is a certain sound you can't get in software (such as a really warm analog compressor), then it might be worthwhile too. hardware fx are also probably useful where you use the same settings in all songs... considering you don't even understand what a patchbay is, i don't think you're ready to bring hardware into your workflow. tbh, i think hardware effects are too much of a hassle for ANYONE heh. my advice - buy some midi controllers and set them up specifically for your favourite comp/eq plugins. that way you can get your jollies by touching knobs, without sacrificing your workflow. alternatively, look into buying something like the focusrite liquidmix - it gives you a dedicated control surface for dsp-powered compressors/eqs. in regards to mixer controllers, don't waste your money on that behringer shit. get a novation or mackie controller.

Stop being patronising.
Liquidmix/channel is the only hardware EQ/Comp I would consider, maybe an API lunchbox or something like that, but only if you've got 20 spare in/outs in high quality.

that lunchbox doesn't look too good in comparison with some dedicated vocal strips... and that liquidmix is not really hardware you know...

if you really do want to get into the mysterious world of hardware, ill say get a decent audio interface with lots of ins/outs, then start off with synths, only if you are recording vocals or guitars or anything really i would suggest a compressor or even a vocal strip, but if not, it really is a waste of money... hardware used to be the shit back in the days but today it really is over rated, there are just so many computing solutions that sound increadible...

if you really want to go old school, get this:



that is some vintage hardware right there... i appreciate these babies a lot more then i do with some diodes, transistors and knobs soldered togather...

quote:

Originally posted by Vortex_SA that lunchbox doesn't look too good in comparison with some dedicated vocal strips... and that liquidmix is not really hardware you know... if you really do want to get into the mysterious world of hardware, ill say get a decent audio interface with lots of ins/outs, then start off with synths, only if you are recording vocals or guitars or anything really i would suggest a compressor or even a vocal strip, but if not, it really is a waste of money... hardware used to be the shit back in the days but today it really is over rated, there are just so many computing solutions that sound increadible... if you really want to go old school, get this: that is some vintage hardware right there... i appreciate these babies a lot more then i do with some diodes, transistors and knobs soldered togather...

Yeah, I'm a guitarist myself, so I understand, but I like the idea of having some nice hardware EQs and Compressors to play with, its a nice different way of working...
Liquid mix is hardware, but not analogue, supposedly sounds really good, although I only had a few minutes with one....

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips Yeah, I'm a guitarist myself, so I understand, but I like the idea of having some nice hardware EQs and Compressors to play with, its a nice different way of working... Liquid mix is hardware, but not analogue, supposedly sounds really good, although I only had a few minutes with one....

its just an external computing console really i dont see it as hardware, its like UAD-1/powercore just with knobs... i agree its a nice idea to have hardware compressors (that can get broken btw) and eqs... but in relations to the current market of vsts/dsp cards and the way they get cheap by the day i think its a little bit overpriced and unnecessery for most producers today... i'm producing for about 9/10 years now, i didn't have much money through those years so i learned to deal with what i do have, which was in most cases a slow computer... and now that i got a steady job i rather invest my money on good DAC, monitors, VSTs..

thats my advice anyway...

Yeah, obviously theres higher priorities, I think you'd have to have really good ADACs because you'd be making multiple passes through the computer, so any colours going go get worse. Still, its all a fantasy right
What do you mean by hardware compressors getting broken exactly?

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips Yeah, obviously theres higher priorities, I think you'd have to have really good ADACs because you'd be making multiple passes through the computer, so any colours going go get worse. Still, its all a fantasy right What do you mean by hardware compressors getting broken exactly?

an input jack can get loose real easy if not treated right, if you get dirt in there the unit might overheat, stuff like that... and a lot of factory solderings is not done too carefully and can actually wear off... that is with all electronic equipment... but even more so when you got mechanical stuff on a unit such as knobs, jacks, etc... i'm not saying compressors are easily broken i just say that some do and i personaly don't like running to some store arguing whether my warranty is still relevant...

quote:

Originally posted by Vortex_SA an input jack can get loose real easy if not treated right, if you get dirt in there the unit might overheat, stuff like that... and a lot of factory solderings is not done too carefully and can actually wear off... that is with all electronic equipment... but even more so when you got mechanical stuff on a unit such as knobs, jacks, etc... i'm not saying compressors are easily broken i just say that some do and i personaly don't like running to some store arguing whether my warranty is still relevant...

Ah yeah, but I've had some experience with this stuff, just makes it neccesary to buy from a local dealer if your buying analogue stuff... No big deal really. And all hardware needs servicing to help prevent these problems. I know what you mean about input jacks though, I go through guitar jacks one every 6-12 months easy...

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips Ah yeah, but I've had some experience with this stuff, just makes it neccesary to buy from a local dealer if your buying analogue stuff... No big deal really. And all hardware needs servicing to help prevent these problems. I know what you mean about input jacks though, I go through guitar jacks one every 6-12 months easy...

i actually repair mine its not that hard to do really, i built a custom fender squire (replaced everything really except the wood, reshaped it and refinished...) now its a double fat one with two new seymour duncans, i love this shit its my second project

here are some photos of my baby for all you rockers in here, or guys who appreciate guitars...

Pic1 Pic2 Pic3 Pic4 Pic5 Pic6 Pic7

Sorry for late reply I was sleeping.

Comp

http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR217101

EQ

http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR204730

Also I forgot to mention that me and two friends are trying to create a live show or at least as live as I can get. My friend is a bass guitarist, I will be the synth guy, and my other friend is getting electonic drumset.

Would a hardware compressor not be usefull for this purpose?

BTW i understand guys it really does boil down to at least for my own home studio reasons to the fact I want to twidle knobs instead of clicking a mouse all the time. your just trying to save me from buying some shit I dont need so thanks.

Haha, yeah my soldering skills are a bit poor though, and I get frustrated trying to wire in Reaktor, let alone the real world. Think I'll leave it to the professionals I was interested in building my own guitar at one point, but I bought a new Fender American Delux Strat a while ago, so its not so neccesary now. Once I get stuck into this stuff, I can get lost in it for 6 months and do no real music making!
So now we've gotten this thread totally of topic, what do think of Barack Obama?

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c Sorry for late reply I was sleeping. Comp http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR217101 EQ http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR204730 Also I forgot to mention that me and two friends are trying to create a live show or at least as live as I can get. My friend is a bass guitarist, I will be the synth guy, and my other friend is getting electonic drumset. Would a hardware compressor not be usefull for this purpose? BTW i understand guys it really does boil down to at least for my own home studio reasons to the fact I want to twidle knobs instead of clicking a mouse all the time. your just trying to save me from buying some shit I dont need so thanks.

i suggest the following, a nice firewire audio interface, a powerful laptop which is capable of working at really low latencies (up to 7ms), and a midi keyboard, then youll be able to run emulations of amps for bass and guitars that sound excellent, i use IK multimedia's amplitube 2 its a sweet sounding one, you will then be able to mix all of those in real time using a nice host like Live 7 and eq and compress anything from there, ive been doing some jam sessions like that before, and it works great and saves loads of space you can rock on with

BTW kit, im dying for a new SG standard, it just plays itself its unbelievble how those guys get everything exactly right...

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c Sorry for late reply I was sleeping. Comp http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR217101 EQ http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR204730 Also I forgot to mention that me and two friends are trying to create a live show or at least as live as I can get. My friend is a bass guitarist, I will be the synth guy, and my other friend is getting electonic drumset. Would a hardware compressor not be usefull for this purpose? BTW i understand guys it really does boil down to at least for my own home studio reasons to the fact I want to twidle knobs instead of clicking a mouse all the time. your just trying to save me from buying some shit I dont need so thanks.

Whether you choose to twiddle knobs or not is your own personal preference... Simply put, if you want knobs, buy a control surface. Don't buy a second rate comp/EQ/anything else until you understand what your buying.
No it won't help in your live show. Unless your planning on being the sound engineer and running the whole mix? In which case you'd be better off with a nice desk with comps and EQ on each channel so you can handle every instrument discreetly.
For your own sound, you're better off in software, if you have hardware, then run it through software. Do you know what total recall is? Hardware doesn't have it, do you know how long you'll be spending between songs tayloring your EQ and Comp back to the settings you want? Think it through mate, its not going to work, you'll have no advantages and more kit to lug around. Once you start playing live, you'll realise that the less you carry the more succesful you are.

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c Also I forgot to mention that me and two friends are trying to create a live show... Would a hardware compressor not be usefull for this purpose?

If you are going to have computers running, you should use software. If you don't want to have computers running, then yes hardware compressor is ok. Just remember, different songs will have different compressor settings... On hardware you'd have to manually change (and remember!) them, whereas in software you could just load up a different project file.

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c BTW i understand guys it really does boil down to at least for my own home studio reasons to the fact I want to twidle knobs instead of clicking a mouse all the time.

If that is the case, buy a few midi controllers (eg. UC-33e) and set them up with presets specifically made for your favourite compressor and EQ plugins. Then label the knobs, obviously.

I don't think you understand how much of a pain in the ass using a hardware compressor will be for producing. Truth be told, I don't know anyone who uses a hardware compressor for anything other than comping vocals, before they hit the ADC.

Thanks for the advice next question. If we are doing an electronic live set do we need more than 1 laptop and if we do how to all the midi clocks sync?

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c If we are doing an electronic live set do we need more than 1 laptop

do you need more than one laptop for any of your non-live songs?

(that is a rhetorical question)

if the only difference will be that you'll have people with midi controllers, rather than the midi comming from within the sequencer itself, i don't see any reason why you would need more than one.

that said, it would be a good idea to have an identical laptop for backup.

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