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Wallstreet- $700 billion proposed bailout!

Have not seen anything regarding the proposed bailout of Wallstreet on TA yet.

Was wondering what you guys felt about it?
A. I think its good for the economy
B. I don't want to bail out company's who did bad investments with my own tax money
c. What is Wallstreet?



Here's a good article i finished reading on Wired

article

The entire thing makes no sense.

They want tax payers to bail them out when the tax payers can't even afford to pay for their mortgages.....which is part of the reason why these companies are in this position.

sweep it under the rug until everything goes to shit imo.

it's a necessary evil... without the bailout the ripple effect would be too large in the financial services industry. besides, it's hardly going to effect each individual person that greatly (the taxes)...

I think it's good.
We are just flexing our financial power to other countries like China, Madagascar, Darfur and Zimbabwe saying "hey, $700 billion? that's nothing." Just put all that money onto a C-130, dip it into gold, and fly them into the sun!

reminds me of this:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/D...for_9_0209.html

pure ballas

quote:

Originally posted by SuspicionVandit I think it's good. We are just flexing our financial power to other countries like China and Zimbabwe saying "hey, $700 billion? that's nothing." Just put all that money onto a C-130, dip it into gold, and fly them into the sun! reminds me of this: http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/D...for_9_0209.html pure ballas

what flexing to china?

you realize the us is essentially in hock to the central bank of china right now don't you?

quote:

Originally posted by keithos27 it's a necessary evil... without the bailout the ripple effect would be too large in the financial services industry. besides, it's hardly going to effect each individual person that greatly (the taxes)...

its a short term solution that doesn't solve the problem....eventually the market will collapse and the USA will fall into a major depression which will basically cripple western society....leaving China to take over as the Super Power and invade north america and we will all fall to communist leadership.

you are wrong about the communist part or invasion.

this whole thing will signal the end to the hegemony though.

Wait, you mean we can't get out of debt by borrowing more money?! Oh shiat!

quote:

Originally posted by Zoso Wait, you mean we can't get out of debt by borrowing more money?! Oh shiat!

I wonder if the President gets daily calls from collection agencies.

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced its a short term solution that doesn't solve the problem....

was definitely the same outcome with the tax incentive we got earlier this year when it wasn't technically a 'recession' yet. Now we are hearing the words 'depression'....sad day.

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced its a short term solution that doesn't solve the problem....eventually the market will collapse and the USA will fall into a major depression which will basically cripple western society....leaving China to take over as the Super Power and invade north america and we will all fall to communist leadership.

umm, okay. i wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

it IS a short-term solution and i'm not 100% up-to-date on all of the facts, but it's a very powerful signal to wall street that people are trying to make things better. do i think it's perect, of course not. do i think any solution is perfect, of course not.

i'm just as interested in learning why lehman brothers got the cold shoulder when they looked for help and thus had to file bankruptcy 24 hours later.

delaying the inevitable will not make things better. You figure the damage that was done in the 80's would have taught you something by now. Continuous exponential growth is impossible to sustain, and now the floor has fallen out. Open your eyes, bailing out people who got too greedy will only make things worse in the long run.

Heh, China's current big GDP growth is deluding people into ignoring its huge amounts of corruption and bad loans, not to mention the fact that its population is aging at a rate even higher than in the socialized European economies with questionable futures.

[I like social democracies, by the way, but they just don't add up without some steady population growth.]

Whatever floats the boat of TA's "America last-ers," though.

Let us consult the great Alberto Falk!

it is not just about china.
asia as a whole is moving into a partnership via free trade and economic policies within it. A united asia financially is a very hard thing to compete with. Of course you only know of these policies outside of america because the media simply ignores it.

I agree, it's not just about China and its book-cooking voodoo: the whole of East Asia is aging just like Europe is, united or no. It all looks sunny until an increasingly sparse young generation has to care for parents in their dotage. Maybe they can follow Japan's lead and start investing in senior-care robots.

America might avoid this destiny due to a recent jump in the birthrate, but that's also questionable due to our insane practices in lending and CDS-gambling that have gone unregulated for far too long, and which are the root of the current crisis, possibly canceling out any demographic advantage we might have.



So what we're all going to see eventually is either a big push toward natalism, politico-economic collapse, or a bunch of old people sent out on the ice floes.

quote:

Originally posted by elFreak delaying the inevitable will not make things better. You figure the damage that was done in the 80's would have taught you something by now. Continuous exponential growth is impossible to sustain, and now the floor has fallen out. Open your eyes, bailing out people who got too greedy will only make things worse in the long run.

I agree. It looks like just about nobody learned anything from the savings and loan crisis. Lenders didn't learn anything; borrowers didn't learn anything; the government officials didn't learn anything; the media didn't learn anything; and the general public who are eating up this illusory $700 bn figure obviously didn't learn anything because we heard all the same complaints about the Resolution Trust Corporation and that ended up just about breaking even.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I agree, it's not just about China and its book-cooking voodoo: the whole of East Asia is aging just like Europe is, united or no. It all looks sunny until an increasingly sparse young generation has to care for parents in their dotage. Maybe they can follow Japan's lead and start investing in senior-care robots. America might avoid this destiny due to a recent jump in the birthrate, but that's also questionable due to our insane practices in lending and CDS-gambling that have gone unregulated for far too long, and which are the root of the current crisis, possibly canceling out any demographic advantage we might have. So what we're all going to see eventually is either a big push toward natalism, politico-economic collapse, or a bunch of old people sent out on the ice floes.

where does aging fit into the equation when 1 in 5 world citizens are chinese...and they do not give a fuck about their own population for the sake of economic growth?

quote:

Originally posted by elFreak where does aging fit into the equation when 1 in 5 world citizens are chinese...and they do not give a fuck about their own population for the sake of economic growth?

Do the math:

Working citizens / total citizens = proportion of population actually sustaining the economy. As a population ages, that ratio gets smaller and you have a larger proportion of workers to non-workers. Each productive person has to support more and more non-productive people.

Of course, China has the big "advantage" of being willing to utilize child labor, meaning it has a bigger range from start-of-working-age to retirement age, so this problem will be less severe there than in the more regulated European countries.

if you think this is america's life line you are severly deluded and buying the company line.

enjoy your bullshit pancakes.

quote:

Originally posted by elFreak if you think this is america's life line you are severly deluded and buying the company line. enjoy your bullshit pancakes.

That's the thing, I don't think anybody has a "life line" here. America has its own shit to deal with, and so far it doesn't seem to be doing that too adequately.

I'm just doing my part to counter the fatuous sort of optimism that has dominated discussion of Asian economies for the last five years or so.

while i am not calling you out as completely wrong i do not think this will affect the situation as much as you believe it to. Show me a country that is not 3rd world where the birth rates have not gone down. This problem is a global one and not limited to china, so in the scope of things america will live this as well.

every heard of baby boomers?

I'll be 32 in December. I'll get my Social Security at 65ish, right? RIGHT?

i would not count on it.

we have the same problems in canada. The system is flawed due to the stress that the boomers will put on the system vs the ability to actually sustain the funds.

china does not have this problem because they do not give a fuck.

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