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Ok so the bailout was rejected, or whatever

I'm hardly an expert in politics and economics, but this must be worth a thread, no? Breaking news in CNN with funny negative numbers boards and all.

Spread the panic.

No, seriously, what could be the consequences of this? Where does this crisis stop?

why would they say they reached a deal without having the majority necessary to pass the bill?


As to the question - failure to pass the bill could have adverse consequences if the bill was going to provide the necessary liquidatity so that banks would loosen their lending policies. The problem is banks are not lending for anything, including normal short term credit obligations of corporations, which can cause severe economic consequences. we already saw 4 european banks fail today, and if the commercial paper market doesn't resume its normal functioning very shortly, we could see more bank failures and corporations cutting expenses to save cash for internal financing (in short - job cuts) it otherwise would have received in the credit markets.

Portuguese TV just said the stock market at S�o Paulo, Brazil, was losing 10% and they had to close it temporarily.

Holy shit.

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 why would they say they reached a deal without having the majority necessary to pass the bill?

defeated 225-208 in the House. i would guess those 17 or so votes who were very disgusted with the whole deal to begin with but were reluctantly ready to follow Republican leadership got pissed at what Pelosi said on the floor at the last minute.

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Originally posted by Q5echo defeated 225-208 in the House. i would guess those 17 or so votes who were very disgusted with the whole deal to begin with but were reluctantly ready to follow Republican leadership got pissed at what Pelosi said on the floor at the last minute.

which goes to show how petty, and unfit congressional members are to be running a country. personal squabbles over the health of a nation. makes sense to me.

WE'RE ALL GONNA DIEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo defeated 225-208 in the House. i would guess those 17 or so votes who were very disgusted with the whole deal to begin with but were reluctantly ready to follow Republican leadership got pissed at what Pelosi said on the floor at the last minute.

Pelosi certainly did kill it. I was watching on C-span. The mood seemed to be very agreeable on the house floor in the hours before the vote. Every republican was saying as disgusted as they were with the package, they were going to vote for it for the good of the country. There was general consensus that it needed to be passed, then this dumb bitch made hugely partisan comments in her opening remarks.



This certainly turned at least 6 people from "yes" to "no"..causing the deal to fail. WTF was she thinking?

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Originally posted by Capitalizt Pelosi certainly did kill it. I was watching on C-span. The mood seemed to be very agreeable on the house floor in the hours before the vote. Every republican was saying as disgusted as they were with the package, they were going to vote for it for the good of the country. There was general consensus that it needed to be passed, then this dumb bitch made hugely partisan comments in her opening remarks. This certainly turned at least 6 people from "yes" to "no"..causing the deal to fail. WTF was she thinking?

I am disappointed that several members of both parties chose to vote no. THey simply do not get it. But I cannot believe that after last week's promise to get something done, she would come out with this kind of partisanship. There is just no place for this right now. I would certainly be offended by this grandstanding, but not enough so to miss the big picture. She shouldn't have done this, and congressional members should not have voted no.

Nancy Pelosi, typical loudmouth San Francisco Liberal...truly making my fellow Californians proud.

What a disgrace.

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Originally posted by Shakka I am disappointed that several members of both parties chose to vote no. THey simply do not get it. But I cannot believe that after last week's promise to get something done, she would come out with this kind of partisanship. There is just no place for this right now. I would certainly be offended by this grandstanding, but not enough so to miss the big picture. She shouldn't have done this, and congressional members should not have voted no.

If you don't mind me asking, what makes you think this 700 billion dollar giveaway is a good idea? What effects do you believe it will have?

Anyone else can answer this question as well, thanks.

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby If you don't mind me asking, what makes you think this 700 billion dollar giveaway is a good idea? What effects do you believe it will have? Anyone else can answer this question as well, thanks.

In short: the government is willing to buy assets noone else will purchase. That will exchange virtually unmarketable securities with cash, which in turn, will allow the banks to relend the cash to get the credit markets flowing again. Right now, the banks can't lend because their capital is tied up in assets noone is willing to buy. Until they free up their balance sheets they can't and won't lend.

At the moment, with the credit markets virtually frozen, banks are not lending money as they would normally. If you have been in the market for a loan (student, home, car) you would notice it is increasingly difficult to get that money. I recently had some minor difficulties getting funding for a federally subsidized student loan (and i have excellent credit - not in the subprime CDO sense - and an above average salary). If something doesn't happen soon, it will only get more difficult, and that will ultimately hurt the overall economy because as we all know the US economy is based 2/3 on consumer purchases.

you can't view the bailout as a gift to banks. While it does help the banks, the banking system is vital to the health of the economy. If the financial systemt fails, the system we rely on to match capital with capital needs disappears. Said differently, we need our banks so that businesses can get the cash they need to create jobs.

Simply put, money/credit lubricates the wheels of commerce. The system is essentially frozen right now for myriad reasons that have been discussed before, namely bad mortgage assets, leverage, etc. In order for credit to flow again, balance sheets need to deleverage by getting rid of the toxic assets that are bogging them down. The only balance sheet big enough to park these bad assets on is the government's (unless you know someone else that can just drum up $700B at near-zero cost).

Once the bad assets are gone, financial institutions can re-capitalize and hopefully regain trust and start to give out credit once again, though certainly not at the loose terms that prevailed in the last 10-15 years.

And if that doesn't work, well...I'd rather not have to look down that abyss yet.

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 which goes to show how petty, and unfit congressional members are to be running a country. personal squabbles over the health of a nation. makes sense to me.

Pretty much.

Give me a fucking break!

The Republicans fail to do their part and its the liberal Speaker from San Francisco's fault? Bullshit. Fuck the republicans. I saw nothing wrong with Pelsoi's speech. She was right! These morons bankrupted the economy. Only a few weeks ago their leaders were staring us in the eyes saying the economy is fine.

The Republicans have been playing politics with this from the start. What the fuck are they doing? If the country goes under its their fault and no one elses. Them and their small town values idiot they put in office.

You can blame the republicans for creating the mess if you wish, but it is certainly Pelosi who is responsible for the bill failing today. There was widespread support for the bill on the house floor. The republicans claimed they had 75-85 votes for the bill..then the FINAL speaker goes to the podium..Nancy Pelosi, and she makes that ridiculous speach blaming bush and republican economics for the mess. Regardless of whether or not that's true, she should not have said it just before the vote. She turned a nonpartisan atmosphere into a very partisan atmosphere for no good reason...and likely made several people change their mind at the last minute.

If she had kept her mouth shut and just said "Lets do what's right for America", she would easily have gotten the extra 6 votes for the bill to pass.

You can't measure that, it is ridiculous and stupid. "There was support"

There were people who SAID they were supporting it. You have no factual basis to accurately measure that a fucking speech caused the vote to fail.

Its like Frank said, in such a grave situation what idiot would put their hurt feelings ahead of the country?

I could just as well say the Republicans fucked up, they are surprised they fucked up, recognize they fucked up and are trying to blame it on the Democrats.

The ruling party rarely brings a bill like this to the floor unless they are sure they have the votes. The republican caucus assured her that they had at least 75 rock solid votes for the bill..possibly 85, yet they ended up with only 60. Her petty comments just before the vote definitely swung some republicans against her. It was a stupid move on her part. Stop defending it.

quote:

Originally posted by josh4 You can't measure that, it is ridiculous and stupid. "There was support" There were people who SAID they were supporting it. You have no factual basis to accurately measure that a fucking speech caused the vote to fail. Its like Frank said, in such a grave situation what idiot would put their hurt feelings ahead of the country? I could just as well say the Republicans fucked up, they are surprised they fucked up, recognize they fucked up and are trying to blame it on the Democrats.

She still should not have bashed the Republican party when a time of Bi-Partisanship is needed to pass this bill. Whether you agree that the Republican party should have caught feelings or not regarding her comments, she still fucked up by being a loud-mouth San Francisco Liberal.

quote:

Originally posted by josh4 Give me a fucking break! The Republicans fail to do their part and its the liberal Speaker from San Francisco's fault? Bullshit. Fuck the republicans. I saw nothing wrong with Pelsoi's speech. She was right!

f**k you she was right. 40% of her own caucus couldn't get behind her on this. how can she not, as leader, get 40% or her own caucus to vote yes? technically she didn't need a single Republican to pass this.

three days it took to negotiate all the other crap she christmas treed this bill with out of it and now we're back to square on. worst Congress ever

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt The ruling party rarely brings a bill like this to the floor unless they are sure they have the votes. The republican caucus assured her that they had at least 75 rock solid votes for the bill..possibly 85, yet they ended up with only 60. Her petty comments just before the vote definitely swung some republicans against her. It was a stupid move on her part. Stop defending it.

I'm not defending it, she could have used more tact and said her piece after the vote. However, you can't but the blame on Pelsoi for making a partisan speech.

What's worse the fact Pelsoi made a tactical error in political judgment or that there were actually people in the House willing to change their votes out of spite? This whole fucking thing is fucked. Only 60% of Democrats voted for it anyway.

The economy is not doomed because Pelosi made a speech. Fuck that. The economy is doomed because of the morons in office these past 8 years.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo f**k you she was right. 40% of her own caucus couldn't get behind her on this. how can she not, as leader, get 40% or her own caucus to vote yes? technically she didn't need a single Republican to pass this. three days it took to negotiate all the other crap she christmas treed this bill with out of it and now we're back to square on. worst Congress ever

So the republican leadership isn't to blame for so few of them backing it? There were even less republicans willing to vote on the bill speech or not. And its your boy McCain that came sailing in to save the day only to derail what progress had been made at the time and not contribute anything.

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 which goes to show how petty, and unfit congressional members are to be running a country. personal squabbles over the health of a nation. makes sense to me.

exactly. Pelosi gets up there making partisan remarks then wants a bi-partisan consensus... she is fucking awful as speaker. The bill easily could have passed if the majority of her own party would have voted, but it's the GOP's fault? lol.

The people voting against it were doing so because the calls were coming in at anywhere from a 10-1 to a 20-1 ratio of constituents being against it. The American people have spoken, and all those Dems that voted against it did so because they know damn well if they voted for it, they'd be out of a job in the next election cycle.



Edit: and what's the hurry? Why are they trying to ram it through so fast? I'm not saying now's the time to dilly dally, but according to them it "HAD" to be passed last week. Then it "HAD" to be passed over the weekend. Then it "HAD" to pass today. I hate when they try to do that shit in stealth before the public really becomes educated on all the details. So what if the Dow is down 777 points... biggest point drop ever, yeah yeah...We're all still alive. But it's still only about 4% of shares, compared to 1987 when 25% of shares were lost, and the real crash in 1929 was about 50% of shares.

Stupid or not of Pelosi, it's fucked up to gamble with your country's economic future just because of a "bad tone" in her speech. They really should be more grown up than that.

quote:

Originally posted by josh4 The economy is not doomed because Pelosi made a speech. Fuck that. The economy is doomed because of the morons in office these past 8 years.

the economy is not doomed. every time there's been a serious problem in the market, and the panic pushers scare the ever-loving shit out of people, it ALWAYS bounces back faster and stronger than they anticipate. Remember after 9/11? Our economy was supposedly going to be in ruins. We need to get the fucking assholes OUT that have been the architects of this mess from the beginning... THAT is change we need.

If you're having surgery on your spleen, and your doctor botches the surgery, do you go back to him and ask him to fix it? Or do you find another doctor to do a better job?

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov

Frank's got a lotta nerve. read my sig

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka I am disappointed that several members of both parties chose to vote no. THey simply do not get it. But I cannot believe that after last week's promise to get something done, she would come out with this kind of partisanship. There is just no place for this right now. I would certainly be offended by this grandstanding, but not enough so to miss the big picture. She shouldn't have done this, and congressional members should not have voted no.

That pretty much sums it up. It's just not the kind of speech you make when you're looking for a consensus. And it's also just not something you vote against if your country is in a situation like this.

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