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Endwar!

Anyone else excited about this?

http://endwargame.us.ubi.com/

Looks like the shittiest, most shallow rts ever designed. I'm sure console players will love it though.

Wow. Ok.



What did you think of World in Conflict?

Wasn't really an rts per se, but I thought it was mediocre. Gameplay was slow and clumsy. It was more cinematic than it was fun to play.

I've been hearing of this game for quite sometime, though I can't say I know much about it. If I'm not mistaken, it's an RTS designed for consoles?

If that's the case, then it almost needs to be shallow considering the lack of a mouse and keyboard. Well, maybe not shallow in the sense that there's hardly any variation of strategy, but rather in the player's ability to navigate the different functions of the game. Doing all sorts of micro-management with a controller is just an absolute bitch and kills all the fun.

Tom Clancy games used to be sure-fire hits, but ever since Ubisoft started pulling EA-like business strategies, that really is no longer the case.

quote:

Originally posted by Project-K Wasn't really an rts per se, but I thought it was mediocre. Gameplay was slow and clumsy. It was more cinematic than it was fun to play.

Thanks for the point of reference. We will have to agree to disagree as I agree with all of the reviews of WIC and the fact that it won so many RTS awards (even without all of lameass resource building). Knowing that you didn't like it makes it easier to understand your response.

Of course, I loved Ground Control as well.


Oh, and WIC is coming out for the console too - which immediately means all of the PC gamers are going to poopoo it.

quote:

Originally posted by CONNERMAN2000 If that's the case, then it almost needs to be shallow considering the lack of a mouse and keyboard. Well, maybe not shallow in the sense that there's hardly any variation of strategy, but rather in the player's ability to navigate the different functions of the game. Doing all sorts of micro-management with a controller is just an absolute bitch and kills all the fun.

Very true - which is why I am looking forward to this title as it is almost entirely voice activated. Most of the early (p)reviews have been impressive. Apparently they have nailed the voice recognition in several different languages and dialects.

There are a few trailers around (and in the PS Store) that highlight how it will all work.

huh, i didnt realise this was a console-only release. i actually thought the vids and the online concept looked pretty cool. but yeah, playing RTS titles with a gamepad is full of yuk (hertzog zwei being the exception).

oh, and forged alliance >>>>>>>>> world in conflict

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN playing RTS titles with a gamepad is full of yuk

Playing RTS titles with anything but a mouse + keyboard is full of yuk. Anything using a gamepad (or even worse, voice command) will have to be severely dumbed down to fit the format and make the game playable, which completely kills the point of an RTS. The only exception to that rule is in the case of very noobish players for whom this wouldn't make a difference in the first place, which I guess is the audience this game is adressed to.

Watching the videos confirms this. One vague command given casually every few seconds, followed by a sophisticated AI system taking over and practically playing the game for you.

I'm also going to have to retract that statement I made earlier about this being the most shallow rts. I'm certain that halo wars will be much, much shittier.

You really should play FA right up til SC2 comes out it really has so much depth its ridiculous. Im constantly learning things about that game.

If I had all the time in the world, I'd probably give FA more of a chance, but as it is I barely have time to play games nowadays, and FA is quite an intimidating game to learn. Besides, I need to brush up on my starcraft practice. I've fallen down to D+ level or so since school started. I lost to a bunker rush earlier this week and I felt like a noob.

You guys crack me up. I guess you guys type faster than you can talk? That's pretty damn amazing.


Anything that isn't what I think is cool is yuk.


And here I thought the point of an RTS was to implement strategy in real-time battle scenarios. I stand corrected. It is all about mapping hot keys, farming crops, and trying to be an RPG - you know, so it doesn't get dumbed down.

quote:

Originally posted by Project-K If I had all the time in the world, I'd probably give FA more of a chance, but as it is I barely have time to play games nowadays, and FA is quite an intimidating game to learn. Besides, I need to brush up on my starcraft practice. I've fallen down to D+ level or so since school started. I lost to a bunker rush earlier this week and I felt like a noob.

hahaha, uber nerds!

quote:

Originally posted by ChrstnMchl You guys crack me up. I guess you guys type faster than you can talk? That's pretty damn amazing. Anything that isn't what I think is cool is yuk. And here I thought the point of an RTS was to implement strategy in real-time battle scenarios. I stand corrected. It is all about mapping hot keys, farming crops, and trying to be an RPG - you know, so it doesn't get dumbed down.

yes, i do type pretty quickly. 60 wpm at last measure.

the rest is a lovely straw man. all i said was that RTS titles suck when played with a controller. that's hardly just an opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by ChrstnMchl You guys crack me up. I guess you guys type faster than you can talk? That's pretty damn amazing.

I should hope you can execute "a-click" faster than you can say "unit one, move to waypoint".

Id like to point out the wonderfully dynamic nature of supreme commander: forged alliance!

Because it is uses simulated ballistics and units that shoot on the move, the game is all about constant movement of hundreds of troops in order to maximise their efficiency. I love the fact that there's no "this unit attack that unit" commands. You just move them and they shoot.

I watched a replay last night where 200 tanks were smashing 200 other tanks and the battle just kept going on and on and on because of reinforcements and it was just insane.

I cant imagine any RTS ever replicating the intensity of that, even if I accept that there's more skill in playing something like starcraft because of the fast clicking.

haha, yeah I guess if you like games that give you an overview of big epic battles.

In starcraft a long fight is basicly two players carefully dancing their units around eachother for ten minutes without firing a shot while a bunch of koreans scream "oooooOOOAAAAAOOOOooooooooOOOAAAAAAOOOOooooo".

Then they finally start firing and after 3 seconds there's nothing left but a bunch of corpses.

quote:

Originally posted by Project-K haha, yeah I guess if you like games that give you an overview of big epic battles. In starcraft a long fight is basicly two players carefully dancing their units around eachother for ten minutes without firing a shot while a bunch of koreans scream "oooooOOOAAAAAOOOOooooooooOOOAAAAAAOOOOooooo". Then they finally start firing and after 3 seconds there's nothing left but a bunch of corpses.

yeah, i always sucked at that which is why i never took to SC (back then i was all about the quake). there's as much micro in supcom as you want there to be which is great for all kinds of players. indeed, careful micro will always beat a macro attack of similar strength.

because of all the many units' different attack ranges there's plenty of micro to do if you want to. but the interface isnt as responsive as starcraft and there's less skill in the actual process because the UI limits players to a certain APM.

im definitely looking forward to having a go at SC2 but without the zoom i think i wont be able to handle it.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN the UI limits players to a certain APM.

Any guesses as to what that APM is approximately?

quote:

Originally posted by Project-K Any guesses as to what that APM is approximately?

its less than 150 i think. i always micro my important battles more than my opponents (another thing- you can see orders given in replays, makes for a great learning process) and my APM is shockingly low.

and obviously, when you have infinite order cues, its often a moot point.

shit map, but with commentary!

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN its less than 150 i think.

So less speed, more precision. It's kinda like playing protoss.

But then I never liked playing protoss.

quote:

Originally posted by Project-K So less speed, more precision. It's kinda like playing protoss. But then I never liked playing protoss.

well, not even that. its the fact that you can zoom out, grab 200 units and get them all to move where you want. they'll fire at whatever they're good at destroying, and you dont need to hold their hand every second.

those that have a high APM will obviously do well, but its not mandatory. good decisions, rather than many decisions.

ahhh, nothing like a good ol supcom thread hijack

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN ahhh, nothing like a good ol supcom thread hijack

Always happy to do my part.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN (hertzog zwei being the exception).

Quoted only to acknowledge one of the greatest games ever.

And truth be told, its the ONLY RTS I can think of in which a controller would be better than a mouse/keyboard. Mainly because there hardly is any micro-management; most of the game is played from the transformer you play as. Why am I even saying that, you already know whats up!

quote:

Originally posted by CONNERMAN2000 Quoted only to acknowledge one of the greatest games ever. And truth be told, its the ONLY RTS I can think of in which a controller would be better than a mouse/keyboard. Mainly because there hardly is any micro-management; most of the game is played from the transformer you play as. Why am I even saying that, you already know whats up!

someone should really make a new version of that game. it would be perfect for consoles & controllers, like you say

fuck, even populous. that was ace on the megadrive

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN someone should really make a new version of that game. it would be perfect for consoles & controllers, like you say fuck, even populous. that was ace on the megadrive

I've never really played Populous. Everything I hear about it is all-around positive.

As for a new version of Herzog Zwei...if that were to ever become a reality...my god.

...Or at least a re-release on Steam/PSN/Live with online multiplayer and enhanced visuals.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN hahaha, uber nerds! yes, i do type pretty quickly. 60 wpm at last measure. the rest is a lovely straw man. all i said was that RTS titles suck when played with a controller. that's hardly just an opinion.

Truth be told, my comments shouldn't have been as directed at you as I made them. I just expected it to apply to you more since I see you always bag on consoles and sing praises of a PC.

And it is just an opinion on consoles and their controllers sucking for RTS games - but you would be hard pressed to find anyone that has a different opinion. That being said, this game is not just played with a controller. Certainly you are not typing out entire commands on a PC, but you do still have to select your units and then give them an order. Hot keys make that easier on a keyboard for sure, but simply saying what you want to do is not that hard either. Additionally, if this game is like any of the other battle oriented RTS's you can adjust your units behavior to either hold fire, return fire, or fire at will. Ground Control did that and that was 8 years ago.

I guess where I really take issue is with the assumption that it sucks because it will be on a console and that it is dumbed down. I have enjoyed the really deep RTS's in the past, but for the most part they just take up time and I get bored with base building. I want the action of a battle - and that is what the Ground Control series has done, what World in Conflict has done (which is coming to consoles as well - with voice recognition), and what Endwar will do. If you are looking for the depth of an RPG, base building, and resource gathering in an RTS then this game clearly isn't for you. However, if you looking for a fast paced, force on force, shoot and scoot battle oriented RTS then I think this hits the mark.


I have not played FA. It sounds wicked. I just stopped trying to keep my PC up to date with all of the system requirements years ago.

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