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Second Presidential Debate

I know. YAWN. Not even worth a topic til 6 hours after the fact.

But yeah, what did everyone personally think?

the format was a joke. it was neither a town hall or a debate.

they both did fine. i'm not one for minutea.

i think McCain could win this on Obama's complicity with Fannie and Freddie he just needs to be able to have the oppurtunity.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo i think McCain could win this on Obama's complicity with Fannie and Freddie he just needs to be able to have the oppurtunity.

the sky is still blue on my world, I believe. What is it on yours?

Im pretty sure Obama explained clearly his relationship with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in the debate after McCain started accusing him and calling him "that one!".

McCain is such a duttering and snappy old man. I can't wait to see his concession speech in four weeks!

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 Im pretty sure Obama explained clearly his relationship with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in the debate after McCain started accusing him and calling him "that one!".

You mean how so many ex-Fannie execs are on his economic advisory team?

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka You mean how so many ex-Fannie execs are on his economic advisory team?

Call a spade a spade.

quote:

MCCAIN'S FREDDIE MAC LOBBYIST.... Honestly, I have no idea what the McCain campaign was thinking. The lobbying firm of the man Republicans say John McCain has chosen to begin planning a presidential transition earned more than a quarter of a million dollars this year representing Freddie Mac, one of the companies McCain blames for the nation's financial crisis. Timmons & Co., whose founder and chairman emeritus is William Timmons Sr., was registered to lobby for Freddie Mac from 2000 through this month, when the federal government took over both Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Newly available congressional records show Timmons's firm received $260,000 this year before its lobbying activities were barred under terms of the government rescue of the failed mortgage giant. Timmons, 77, is listed as a lobbyist for Freddie Mac on the company's midyear financial-disclosure form. John McCain personally spent most of last week railing against Barack Obama's associations with former Fannie Mae officials were extremely important, worthy of attack ads and overheated speeches. At one point, about a week ago, McCain told CBS, "[T]he influence that Fannie and Freddie had in the inside-the-beltway, old-boy network, which led to this kind of corruption is unacceptable." Soon after, he told a Wisconsin audience, "At the center of the problem were the lobbyists, politicians, and bureaucrats who succeeded in persuading Congress and the administration to ignore the festering problems at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." This, after McCain had tapped Freddie Mac's lobbyist to head his presidential transition team? And after he tapped a former Fannie Mae lobbyist as his campaign manager? Seriously? By this standard, McCain probably should feel compelled to vote against himself. Or, as Josh Marshall concluded, "I expect a lot of hypocrisy of all politicians, of both parties. But John McCain is really in a class of his own."

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/ar...8_09/014845.php

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?...&refer=politics

I am just saying but I'm sure the dirty south will back him, but...damn, he was Black dismissive all night, walking away from black questioners, forgetting to address black questioners. He smiled at the white folks. Senator McCain is a true divider and a proud GOP member.



loved how McCain told the black kid, "You prob never heard of Fannie May And Freddie Mac."
Why you fucking ass hole?? cause he is black??

fucking he lost it man, just fucking lost it


and just for Q

Next time it would be nice if they had an actual debate. Same for the VP candidates.

Blah blah blah. The same old shit rehashed again.

If McCain needed a knockout he sure didn't look like he was trying for one. What's that old man got up his sleeve?

Another great night for Obama.
Even some folks at Fox News are starting to admit that Obama is the better candidate so you know Mccain is in trouble...

quote:

Originally posted by CHRles Another great night for Obama. Even some folks at Fox News are starting to admit that Obama is the better candidate so you know Mccain is in trouble...

Yeah, it's been interesting to see conservative pundits already declare the election over as well. David Brooks seems content at being resigned to an Obama presidency.

Bill Kristol of course is still willing to fight til the end... but then he's nothing but a neo-conservative hack, complicit in his own way for the rise of the PNAC tom-foolery of the past eight years.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Yeah, it's been interesting to see conservative pundits already declare the election over as well. David Brooks seems content at being resigned to an Obama presidency. Bill Kristol of course is still willing to fight til the end... but then he's nothing but a neo-conservative hack, complicit in his own way for the rise of the PNAC tom-foolery of the past eight years.

yeah thats all good but when Q5echo declares then it will be over




oh yeah

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX

http://www.intrade.com

quote:

Originally posted by josh4 If McCain needed a knockout he sure didn't look like he was trying for one. What's that old man got up his sleeve?

Werthers Originals.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka You mean how so many ex-Fannie execs are on his economic advisory team?

...and about McCain's comment about Obama getting the 2nd highest contributions from Freddie and Fannie...

quote:

The Statement: At a presidential debate Tuesday, October 7 in Nashville, Tennessee, Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain said Democratic opponent Sen. Barack Obama and other Democrats resisted regulating mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which ultimately collapsed and had to be taken over by the government. "Meanwhile, they were getting all kinds of money in campaign contributions. Sen. Obama was the second-highest recipient of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac money in history � in history," he said. Get the facts! The Facts: Federal law forbids candidates from receiving money directly from companies. The nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics tracks donations from employees of various companies. The center's list of contributions from Fannie and Freddie employees places Obama second. Ahead of him is Sen. Chris Dodd, Democratic chairman of the Senate Banking Committee. The total listed for Obama is $126,349 � a tiny fraction of the approximately $390 million his campaign has raised, according to the center. The list shows McCain has received a total of $21,550 from Fannie and Freddie employees. The list includes donations of at least $200 from those who receive paychecks from Fannie and Freddie. It also includes donations from political action committees � pooled contributions from employees. The report spans from 1989-2008 � just a portion of the time since Fannie Mae went private in 1968 and Freddie Mac was created in 1970. The New York Times has published a separate list looking at contributions from "directors, officers, and lobbyists for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac" for the 2008 campaign cycle. That list � using figures from the Federal Election Commission � shows McCain receiving $169,000, while Obama received only $16,000. VERDICT: Misleading. No donations actually came from the companies. One method of measuring employee contributions does put Obama second overall, but another, for the current election cycle, shows McCain receiving significantly more.

You would have think they would have looked just a bit deeper into the statement before allowing McCain to say it.

-- Short version, Obama got $126K from employees ($21K for McCain) while McCain got $169K from CEOs and lobbyists ($16K for Obama). In total, Obama got $142K in F/F associated campaign funds while McCain got $190K.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo the format was a joke. it was neither a town hall or a debate.

Agreed. That was a giant yawn for me.

quote:

they both did fine. i'm not one for minutea.

Again, agreed. I actually thought McCain didn't do too bad there, at least not as bad as the polls had suggested immediately afterwards. Then again, he needed a bigger momentum change somehow, and that just wasn't going to happen then, especially with that boring-ass town hall format.

quote:

i think McCain could win this on Obama's complicity with Fannie and Freddie he just needs to be able to have the oppurtunity.

Well that's been answered and refuted few times already, so I won't rehash. I'm waiting for the next line of attack, via David Frum:

http://frum.nationalreview.com/post...mEyMTUyMjM1MWY=

But given the unbelievable mess of the economy right now, Frum's right in that it's probably not enough.

quote:

Originally posted by CHRles Another great night for Obama. Even some folks at Fox News are starting to admit that Obama is the better candidate so you know Mccain is in trouble...

Good to see you're dynamic.

This debate disappointed me in that neither candidate really offered workable solutions to the current crisis, Obama/Biden is definitely a better ticket than McCain/Palin Simply because Sarah Palin is a disgrace to all women, especially female politicians, and IT WOULD BE AN UNMITIGATED DISASTER TO HAVE MCCAIN FLATLINE AND HAVE THAT FOLKSY RETARD FROM ALASKA as the symbolic representation of what the U.S. Stands for
What does europe think of sarah palin?
Because I am ashamed that so many stupid americans think so highly of her just because she speaks their language and pretends she identifies with their issues
of course I will not cast my vote for either ticket
I refuse to vote for the republicrats

Oh yeah??? Well Obama's plan smells!

quote:

Reporter's Notebook: Seeing How The Other Half Lives Posted by Dean Reynolds| Comments1085 (CBS) From CBS News' Dean Reynolds: (NASHVILLE, TENN.) - After most of the previous 12 months covering Barack Obama's campaign for the presidency, it was interesting, instructive and, well, relaxing to follow John McCain for the last few days. The differences between the two are striking. Obama is the big time orator, McCain is the guy who struggles with a teleprompter or even note cards strategically placed nearby. Obama's crowds are larger, more enthusiastic. McCain's events are smaller, but to my eye, better choreographed. And now with the addition of Sarah Palin to some of his events, McCain can boast of crowds that match Obama's in energy. There is an urgency to the McCain campaign now that I don't think was there before. Due to the fact that he is running second, no doubt, but it may also be because McCain has a finishing kick. Whatever the case, he is sharper on the stump than he was before. (Though I would suspect a candidate running behind would want to schedule two or three appearances per day, instead of the one McCain usually does.) It is true that McCain enjoys taking questions from the audience in town hall-style settings. That doesn't mean he is the master of that kind of forum, it just means he's good at it. He likes to converse with voters. Obama does it well too, but seldom achieves that intangible bond with the people that all politicians crave -- or fake. Behind the scenes, where the public is not allowed, there are other differences. Obama's campaign schedule is fuller, more hectic and seemingly improvisational. The Obama aides who deal with the national reporters on the campaign plane are often overwhelmed, overworked and un-informed about where, when, why or how the candidate is moving about. Baggage calls are preposterously early with the explanation that it's all for security reasons. If so, I would love to have someone from Obama's campaign explain why the entire press corps, the Secret Service, and the local police idled for two hours in a Miami hotel parking lot recently because there was nothing to do and nowhere to go. It was not an isolated case. The national headquarters in Chicago airily dismisses complaints from journalists wondering why a schedule cannot be printed up or at least e-mailed in time to make coverage plans. Nor is there much sympathy for those of us who report for a newscast that airs in the early evening hours. Our shows place a premium on live reporting from the scene of campaign events. But this campaign can often be found in the air and flying around at the time the "CBS Evening News with Katie Couric" is broadcast. I suspect there is a feeling within the Obama campaign that the broadcast networks are less influential in the age of the internet and thus needn't be accomodated as in the days of yore. Even if it's true, they are only hurting themselves by dissing audiences that run in the tens of millions every night. The McCain folks are more helpful and generally friendly. The schedules are printed on actual books you can hold in your hand, read, and then plan accordingly. The press aides are more knowledgeable and useful to us in the news media. The events are designed with a better eye, and for the simple needs of the press corps. When he is available, John McCain is friendly and loquacious. Obama holds news conferences, but seldom banters with the reporters who've been following him for thousands of miles around the country. Go figure. The McCain campaign plane is better than Obama's, which is cramped, uncomfortable and smells terrible most of the time. Somehow the McCain folks manage to keep their charter clean, even where the press is seated. The other day in Albuquerque, N.M., the reporters were given almost no time to file their reports after McCain spoke. It was an important, aggressive speech, lambasting Obama's past associations. When we asked for more time to write up his remarks and prepare our reports, the campaign readily agreed to it. They understood. Similar requests are often denied or ignored by the Obama campaign aides, apparently terrified that the candidate may have to wait 20 minutes to allow reporters to chronicle what he's just said. It's made all the more maddening when we are rushed to our buses only to sit and wait for 30 minutes or more because nobody seems to know when Obama is actually on the move. Maybe none of this means much. Maybe a front-running campaign like Obama's that is focused solely on victory doesn't have the time to do the mundane things like print up schedules or attend to the needs of reporters. But in politics, everything that goes around comes around.

In these times how the fuck does an article so trivial get to see the light of day?

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Oh yeah??? Well Obama's plan smells!

Aw, poor baby. Obama didn't hold his hand or do his laundry.

And yet... it's been the McCain campaign restricting press access. That wouldn't be important to journalists who are more concerned with being pampered than asking questions though, right?

quote:

Originally posted by Zild In these times how the fuck does an article so trivial get to see the light of day?

I was wondering the exact same thing. If he's going to compare the two, I'd hope that someone who has spent time with both would find something a little more substantial than this. I'm guessing this is a "my editors paid a lot of money for me to travel around, so I better write something" article.

I lol'd.

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