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a question for the athiests or agnostics amongst us

are you open with others about your beliefs, do you avoid the topic altogether or do you fake a belief out of social pressure?

typically i avoid it but when but when push comes to shove, i explain my position.

Re: a question for the athiests or agnostics amongst us

quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange are you open with others about your beliefs, do you avoid the topic altogether or do you fake a belief out of social pressure? typically i avoid it but when but when push comes to shove, i explain my position.

Yeah, I let people believe what they want as long as it makes them happy and they're not hurting others, but that doesn't mean I'll spare them the obvious if it needs to be done...

If I'm having dinner at the grandmother's, I say "Amen" with a smirk.

That's about as nice as I get.

Mormon's bring out the contempt in me though, I can't help myself.

I'll be goddamned if a Mormon saves my soul.

edit_
I don't force my views on anyone

Re: a question for the athiests or agnostics amongst us

quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange are you open with others about your beliefs, do you avoid the topic altogether or do you fake a belief out of social pressure? typically i avoid it but when but when push comes to shove, i explain my position.

I'm not an atheist or agnostic but pretty much do the same. I avoid any discussion about religion whatsoever because most of my fellow atheist are just plain ignorant, bigoted and condescending... and I don't believe in pushing my beliefs on others, unlike them.

In the UK it's probably more the opposite, if you're religious you're gonna get looked at funny if you admit it! Tony Blair had religious beliefs but he kept it as quiet as he could while PM (another MP who was very (like Opus Dei "very") Catholic was ridiculed in the press)

In immigrant communities it's a lot more open with the Sheiks, Hindus and Muslims from the Asian subcontinent and with the Christians from the Afro-Caribbean communities, but in "mainstream" society it's not really looked on that favourably and something that people tend to keep to themselves.

So yes, in the UK, people are very open about not believing in God(s), and less open if they do believe in God(s)...

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley In the UK it's probably more the opposite, if you're religious you're gonna get looked at funny if you admit it! Tony Blair had religious beliefs but he kept it as quiet as he could while PM (another MP who was very (like Opus Dei "very") Catholic was ridiculed in the press) In immigrant communities it's a lot more open with the Sheiks, Hindus and Muslims from the Asian subcontinent and with the Christians from the Afro-Caribbean communities, but in "mainstream" society it's not really looked on that favourably and something that people tend to keep to themselves. So yes, in the UK, people are very open about not believing in God(s), and less open if they do believe in God(s)...

You folk have the benefit of a thousand years of collective and cultured history/civilisation.

People still use 'z' as a substitute for 's' over here. What can we expect?

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley In the UK it's probably more the opposite, if you're religious you're gonna get looked at funny if you admit it! Tony Blair had religious beliefs but he kept it as quiet as he could while PM (another MP who was very (like Opus Dei "very") Catholic was ridiculed in the press) In immigrant communities it's a lot more open with the Sheiks, Hindus and Muslims from the Asian subcontinent and with the Christians from the Afro-Caribbean communities, but in "mainstream" society it's not really looked on that favourably and something that people tend to keep to themselves. So yes, in the UK, people are very open about not believing in God(s), and less open if they do believe in God(s)...

So if you're white and believe in God (or religion), it's considered weird but not if you're a minority?

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z So if you're white and believe in God (or religion), it's considered weird but not if you're a minority?

I think you could relate that to 'out-of-sight out-of-mind'. The roots of Eastern religion are a bit stronger, or have remained strong through time. I'm not generalising, I hope, but I don't think Muslims are as open to interpretation or criticism.

I'm not excusing pandering, or condescending tolerance, but just some food for thought.

quote:

Originally posted by {b.s.e.} I think you could relate that to 'out-of-sight out-of-mind'. The roots of Eastern religion are a bit stronger, or have remained strong through time. I'm not generalising, I hope, but I don't think Muslims are as open to interpretation or criticism. I'm not excusing pandering, or condescending tolerance, but just some food for thought.

No, I actually agree with you on that one, Muslims not being very receptive of interpretation or criticism. However, at the same time I'd like to point out I've honestly never seen any actual criticism of Islam itself... not much anyways. The problem is if that criticism is laden with bigotry and preconceived notions, it's not going to be received well no matter who the group is. That goes for any group universally. And very few people in any group actually are receptive to criticism.

To be honest, I don't consider Christianity to be a Western religion at all. The way it exists in the West, yeah sure. It's a Roman / Greek religion. The only religions that are ever really criticized in the West is Christianity and Catholicism. But, much of the criticism is of the people who claim to practice it and not the actual religions themselves again.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z So if you're white and believe in God (or religion), it's considered weird but not if you're a minority?

Don't think skin pigment has anything to do with the religiousness of an individual, however, immigrants who came to this country (who, yes, tend to have different coloured skin) did so from countries where religion is still pretty intense. British people have had religion taken out of them and their society since the Reformation, so for about half a millennium! But later arrivals (from the 1950s onwards) to the UK simply haven't had that kind of "religious conditioning". So the "native" population is a hell of a lot less religious than immigrant communities (including from 2004 onwards the very latest immigrants from Eastern Europe who are fairly religious).

Anyway, my point was only that it was more likely for people from immigrant communities to be religious compared to people whose ancestry ties are rooted in Britain.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z But, much of the criticism is of the people who claim to practice it and not the actual religions themselves again.

I think if religion were merely adhered to by people rather than used by people, religion would rarely be criticised

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Don't think skin pigment has anything to do with the religiousness of an individual, however, immigrants who came to this country (who, yes, tend to have different coloured skin) did so from countries where religion is still pretty intense. British people have had religion taken out of them and their society since the Reformation, so for about half a millennium! But later arrivals (from the 1950s onwards) to the UK simply haven't had that kind of "religious conditioning". So the "native" population is a hell of a lot less religious than immigrant communities (including from 2004 onwards the very latest immigrants from Eastern Europe who are fairly religious). Anyway, my point was only that it was more likely for people from immigrant communities to be religious compared to people whose ancestry ties are rooted in Britain.

I know and understand that, my question was... are you treated with even more bias and disrespect if you're religious and white... and not in the closet about it, as opposed to not.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley I think if religion were merely adhered to by people rather than used by people, religion would rarely be criticised

I agree, same goes for democracy at gunpoint or communism at gunpoint, but the secular world ignores "their own" hypocrisy on that one. Or anything secular as well really. The secular world has tons of blood on it's hands too and pursues it's interests in an even more dispicable way that religion.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I know and understand that, my question was... are you treated with even more bias and disrespect if you're religious and white... and not in the closet about it, as opposed to not.

Good question now I come to think about it!

I was first going to say no, the attitude of the majority towards religion would be the same no matter what the person's background. However, thinking a little harder, I suppose there's a possibility that people expect people from immigrant communities to be religious, so perhaps it's not viewed as weird as someone from an ethic British background?

It's not really something I've thought about more but I'm going to give it some consideration from now on!

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I agree, same goes for democracy at gunpoint or communism at gunpoint, but the secular world ignores "their own" hypocrisy on that one. Or anything secular as well really. The secular world has tons of blood on it's hands too and pursues it's interests in an even more dispicable way that religion.

Nope, power elites have all the blood on their hands, religion or secularism have merely been the tools used to achieve their ends over the centuries...

It's like saying that throughout British expansionist history, British guns have more blood on their hands than British swords, but the reality is, all that blood was spilled by the British...

Despite my rabid atheism I rarely (if ever) talk about it in day-to-day life. Normally I only ever say something in response to some religious clown making a fool of themselves. But atheism is relatively popular in australia so its never a big deal.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN atheism is relatively popular in australia so its never a big deal.

Saying that (and I assume Australia is the same as UK in this instance), I don't think there is an organised "atheist" lobby that actively looks to recruit new members or put out atheist propaganda to convince people their way is the right way. Atheism, imo, is just a natural progression in advanced societies that individuals realise themselves. So altho atheism is common, I would describe it as "popular" as that suggests something slightly different and comparable with "other" religions, when atheism isn't really a religion but merely the absence of one...

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Saying that (and I assume Australia is the same as UK in this instance), I don't think there is an organised "atheist" lobby that actively looks to recruit new members or put out atheist propaganda to convince people their way is the right way. Atheism, imo, is just a natural progression in advanced societies that individuals realise themselves. So altho atheism is common, I would describe it as "popular" as that suggests something slightly different and comparable with "other" religions, when atheism isn't really a religion but merely the absence of one...

absolutely correct george popular was probable the wrong word, more like "common".

Re: a question for the athiests or agnostics amongst us

quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange are you open with others about your beliefs, do you avoid the topic altogether or do you fake a belief out of social pressure? typically i avoid it but when but when push comes to shove, i explain my position.

I am an agnostic but I am respectful of differing opinions, I don't try to hide my agnosticism but I never try to convince believers that agnosticism is preferable to religious adherence, for that is one of the things I most dislike about religion, the unquenchable thirst to proselytize

If only one of many can be right, and all are assured they are right, they all must be wrong. Religion is most certainly a personal thing, and should be kept to one's self.

I'm quite open about my atheism, which is not an easy thing to do around here.

There's no actual data on atheism here in Brazil, but we know that at least 7.5% of the population doesn't follow a particular religion, which includes religious people not affiliated to any particular sect/church (Atheists must be, therefore, fewer in number) [Source in Portuguese... but it can probably be understood by English speakers].

I realised the problem of being an open Atheist soon in life. I almost got kicked off from Elementary School for voicing my opinion, and I tried to be a Christian in Middle School. Being raised in a religious family didn't make matters any easier, and I had to pray at least a week with my family (not including Sunday Mass), unless I wanted to lead a Nintendo-less life

But, I eventually fought the pressure and here I am. I think I'm surprisingly tolerant, though, given my background.

I know my girlfriend isnt happy with the fact that I'm an aetheist. She told me that I dont have to be a Christian like her, but she at least wishes I believed in God. Honestly with all the shit in the world I've always had a hard time accepting religion, and putting my faith in "the lord". I'm happy just living my life the way I do.
I suppose I'd probably be very comfortable living in a country like England, the Netherlands, or Sweden, ie countries where religion is not something that's almost forced upon you by part of the population.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Nope, power elites have all the blood on their hands, religion or secularism have merely been the tools used to achieve their ends over the centuries...

Touche, it's refreshing to hear that... although my thoughts on the matter might have the slight addition of extending distribution of accountability (to varying degress), depending on circumstances, to larger portion of the political participants in any socio-economic or political system . I'm of the opinion that the functionality of a system devoid of institutionally enforced information asymmetry would yield better results .

Re: Re: a question for the athiests or agnostics amongst us

quote:

Originally posted by Funkesthesiac69 I am an agnostic but I am respectful of differing opinions, I don't try to hide my agnosticism but I never try to convince believers that agnosticism is preferable to religious adherence, for that is one of the things I most dislike about religion, the unquenchable thirst to proselytize

How would one go about convincing people that agnosticism is right anyway?!

Re: Re: Re: a question for the athiests or agnostics amongst us

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley How would one go about convincing people that agnosticism is right anyway?!

We can't really know what's out there. Therefore, we'd better not waste our time pretending we can

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