From our puppet government in Afghanistan...

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-- From our puppet government in Afghanistan...

Posted by Krypton on Oct-21-2008 21:24:

From our puppet government in Afghanistan...

This is the result of our freedom crusade? LOL! What a joke. I predict the puppet governments of Afghanistan and Iraq will be nothing like democracy in 10 years. Hell, they are nothing like democracy now!

quote:
Afghan journalism student sentenced to 20 years

By AMIR SHAH, Associated Press Writer � Tue Oct 21, 12:22 pm ET

KABUL, Afghanistan � An Afghan appeals court overturned a death sentence Tuesday for a journalism student accused of blasphemy for asking questions in class about women's rights under Islam. But the judges still sentenced him to 20 years in prison.

The case against 24-year-old Parwez Kambakhsh, whose brother has angered Afghan warlords with his own writings, has come to symbolize Afghanistan's slide toward an ultraconservative view on religious and individual freedoms.

"I don't accept the court's decision," Kambakhsh told The Associated Press as he was leaving the courtroom. "It is an unfair decision."
The case can be appealed to the Supreme Court, the highest court in Afghanistan.

John Dempsey, a U.S. lawyer working for six years to reform the Afghan justice system, said Kambakhsh has yet to get a fair trial.
"Procedurally, he did not have many of his rights respected," said Dempsey, who attended the trial. "He was detained far longer than he should have been legally held. The defense lawyer was not even allowed to meet the witnesses until a night before the trial."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021/ap_on_re_as/as_afghan_journalist_trial

Posted by Q5echo on Oct-21-2008 22:11:

lower court overturns his original sentence of death. Now gets to appeal that ruling to the Supreme Court. Sounds like the makings of a proper independent judiciary. Granted the rulings are as harsh as anywhere in Muslim society but a speedy independent judiciary is a foundation of any modern democracy. And like all democracies will evolve over time.

Posted by Krypton on Oct-21-2008 22:39:

Posted by DJ Shibby on Oct-21-2008 23:39:

Re: From our puppet government in Afghanistan...

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
This is the result of our freedom crusade? LOL! What a joke. I predict the puppet governments of Afghanistan and Iraq will be nothing like democracy in 10 years. Hell, they are nothing like democracy now!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021...ournalist_trial

It is quite a mad tribe.

Posted by Magnetonium on Oct-22-2008 00:35:

The original post of this thread would have been an amazing contribution to my Defending Afghanistan thread, which is a collection of such articles. I hope to bring them all under one easy place of reference!

Great article nevertheless.

Posted by josh4 on Oct-22-2008 01:43:

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
lower court overturns his original sentence of death. Now gets to appeal that ruling to the Supreme Court. Sounds like the makings of a proper independent judiciary. Granted the rulings are as harsh as anywhere in Muslim society but a speedy independent judiciary is a foundation of any modern democracy. And like all democracies will evolve over time.

I can actually find common ground on this. To believe everything will happen over night is to follow the same ridiculous failed idea that democracy is going to flow like water after starting two wars. That this kid was able to speak out, actually get a trial, change his sentence, and have opportunity for appeal does show progress. Significant considering the area and policies of surrounding regions. Unfortunately the process foreshadows that there is till a long long long way to go and may never actually resemble democracy as the West knows it.

Posted by Krypton on Oct-22-2008 02:24:

quote:
Originally posted by josh4
I can actually find common ground on this. To believe everything will happen over night is to follow the same ridiculous failed idea that democracy is going to flow like water after starting two wars. That this kid was able to speak out, actually get a trial, change his sentence, and have opportunity for appeal does show progress. Significant considering the area and policies of surrounding regions. Unfortunately the process foreshadows that there is till a long long long way to go and may never actually resemble democracy as the West knows it.

We've thrown tens of billions of dollars and thousands of lives away, for this? Come on now......What the hell are we fighting for? Afghanistan????...Why the hell are they worth our blood and treasure? Let the bloody Afghans fight their own war against the Taliban. If they want freedom, they can fight for it. Same with Iraq. If they want democracy, they'll fight for it. The fact of the matter is. What they need most is freedom from us...

Posted by hardcore trancer on Oct-22-2008 02:27:

lol@Democracy in Afghanistan.

Seriously I dont think anyone can actually answer why we are all still there fighting.Talibans arent going anywhere thats for sure.Does that mean we have to be there forever too?

Posted by Krypton on Oct-22-2008 02:28:

quote:
Originally posted by hardcore trancer
lol@Democracy in Afghanistan.

Seriously I dont think anyone can actually answer why we are all still there fighting.Talibans arent going anywhere thats for sure.Does that mean we have to be there forever too?

How many Afghans were on the planes September 11th?

Posted by hardcore trancer on Oct-22-2008 03:01:

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
How many Afghans were on the planes September 11th?

My point exactly.

Posted by Magnetonium on Oct-22-2008 21:30:

quote:
Originally posted by josh4
I can actually find common ground on this. To believe everything will happen over night is to follow the same ridiculous failed idea that democracy is going to flow like water after starting two wars. That this kid was able to speak out, actually get a trial, change his sentence, and have opportunity for appeal does show progress. Significant considering the area and policies of surrounding regions. Unfortunately the process foreshadows that there is till a long long long way to go and may never actually resemble democracy as the West knows it.

You're kidding me ... this is a trial in NATO-controlled territory. For Christ's sake in Afghanistan they still do arranged marriages and give away 10-year old girls into marriage. And other examples. Everything outside of cities is controlled by Taliban and even Taliban is seeping into cities and killing their critics. There's no progress there, but now a slow reversal of fortunes, and the progress that is happening is managed under tremendous defense and military watch of NATO / Afghan forces. But they will never have enough forces to watch over the whole country. And anti-NATO sentiment is growing.

See my official "Defending" Afghanistan thread for a collection of articles to prove my point.

Posted by josh4 on Oct-22-2008 21:45:

quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium

You're kidding me ... this is a trial in NATO-controlled territory. For Christ's sake in Afghanistan they still do arranged marriages and give away 10-year old girls into marriage. And other examples. Everything outside of cities is controlled by Taliban and even Taliban is seeping into cities and killing their critics. There's no progress there, but now a slow reversal of fortunes, and the progress that is happening is managed under tremendous defense and military watch of NATO / Afghan forces. But they will never have enough forces to watch over the whole country. And anti-NATO sentiment is growing.

See my official "Defending" Afghanistan thread for a collection of articles to prove my point.

Well I don't disagree, generally. Some people like to cherry pick and hold up the cherry yelling "SEE! SEE!" Considering the big picture, cases like this quickly become moot points. In some facets there may be progress but in the grad scheme of things its not enough to make any difference. I really doubt we're going to be seeing total free speech there in any of our life times.

Posted by Magnetonium on Oct-22-2008 21:52:

quote:
Originally posted by josh4
Well I don't disagree, generally. Some people like to cherry pick and hold up the cherry yelling "SEE! SEE!" Considering the big picture, cases like this quickly become moot points. In some facets there may be progress but in the grad scheme of things its not enough to make any difference. I really doubt we're going to be seeing total free speech there in any of our life times.

Yes, here and there they rebuild a school, provide some jobs, build a road, but overall the situation in the country is deteriorating. Quite frankly, there's just not enough troops to protect the Afghan people from constant harrassment from the Taliban. And the more foreign troops you'll get, the more animousity you'll get ... No offense, Afghanistan is deadbeat. Yes, they need help, but not to be paid by hundreds of lives of our troops who are considered occupants, evil foreigners, and such. Many Afghans just dont appreciate the effort NATO is doing, even in its good intentions. The situation will really get out of hand once Pakistan will be taken over by pro-Taliban leadership, this mess there is nothing by far.

Posted by Krypton on Oct-25-2008 07:13:

Under NATO, Afghanistan is now the world's #1 narco-state, controlled by drug/war lords, ruled by an ineffective president (Hamid Karzai) who sits in his heavily fortified compound in Kabul taking orders from the Americans. Afghanistan is proving to be an even worse failure than Iraq.