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Armin van Buuren's productions

Question: does van Buuren produce his own stuff, or does he have a horde of studio monkeys doing his bidding?

As much criticism as he cops on here for his DJing (which I'm not particularly enamoured with after the last few performances I've seen either), I think some of his productions are very enjoyable, both in a musical and a technical sense, while some others are quite poor musically.

I have a wave copy of Shivers which I'm listening to, and the mastering and clarity of sound is just unbelievably good, even on the shitty computer speakers I'm using. Trance is perhaps easier to separate sounds into discrete, non-clashing frequencies than other genres, but I'm still very impressed.

I find that a lot of producers manage to achieve great clarity but over-compress/overproduce their tracks in the process. It's personal preference, as some also like their tracks a little muddy (fuck you John Fleming and fuck you also, Wizzy Noise), but I think van Buuren has achieved a great middle ground with his work.

Musically, I can understand true trance lovers hating him with good reason, and I strongly dislike some of his stuff also. However, the main complaint I hear about "modern" trance is the lack of subtlety and lack of ability to actually "entrance" the listener.

Although Shivers does have vocals, the bassline is extraordinarily hypnotic and smooth in the first half of the track, but then perhaps becomes a bit overblown and epic during the *ahem* long breakdown. I really like the vocals though, and this is coming from someone that generally hates vocals in any electronic genre bar house.

To summarise: I don't think Armin is as shit as everyone likes to say he is, and even if you hate his music and his annoying PLUR attitude, you can appreciate his audio engineering skills.

Re: Armin van Buuren's productions

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated Question: does van Buuren produce his own stuff, or does he have a horde of studio monkeys doing his bidding? Trance is perhaps easier to separate sounds into discrete, non-clashing frequencies than other genres, but I'm still very impressed.

Trance is pretty hard to get sounding right. Lots of delays and reverb and big synths eating up head room. Busy basslines and booming kicks. It's tough to get everything to work together, and still have clarity.

quote:

I find that a lot of producers manage to achieve great clarity but over-compress/overproduce their tracks in the process. It's personal preference, as some also like their tracks a little muddy (fuck you John Fleming and fuck you also, Wizzy Noise), but I think van Buuren has achieved a great middle ground with his work.

I agree on this point I like j00f, but some tracks he plays (digital blonde) are so fucking horrible to listen to. So muddy and lofi, it takes all of the musical merit away for me. The only exception being "Orga vs Red 1 - Forever" a gorgeous track, but my god it sounds like I made it. LOL.

Re: Armin van Buuren's productions

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated Question: does van Buuren produce his own stuff?

yes, he does.

Re: Re: Armin van Buuren's productions

quote:

Originally posted by Lunar Phase 7 I agree on this point I like j00f, but some tracks he plays (digital blonde) are so fucking horrible to listen to. So muddy and lofi, it takes all of the musical merit away for me. The only exception being "Orga vs Red 1 - Forever" a gorgeous track, but my god it sounds like I made it. LOL.

that would be because ricky prefers it to be that way, almost raw sounding, so I don't think he masters it to much if any level.

on the note of overcompression, check out the dark matter remix of the sound of goodbye from the radio sample to the one that got released. the power went boom

Re: Re: Armin van Buuren's productions

quote:

Originally posted by Lunar Phase 7 I agree on this point I like j00f, but some tracks he plays (digital blonde) are so fucking horrible to listen to. So muddy and lofi, it takes all of the musical merit away for me. The only exception being "Orga vs Red 1 - Forever" a gorgeous track, but my god it sounds like I made it. LOL.

a wouldnt say digital blonde - legato horrible to listen to its awesome tune crasher anthem that is

are you really comparing armin to j00f
AHAHAHAHAH
my god whats this world coming to...

Armin had alot of help on his new album from various producers, which also is credited.

And about John 00 Flemings productions, as much as i love them i have to say they does not sound very clear, but rather muddy and dirty, i think that is intentional.

Re: Re: Armin van Buuren's productions

quote:

Originally posted by Blake_Jarrell yes, he does.

Awesome. I don't have to divide my disdain past the figurehead and focal point then.

Disdaaaaaaiiiinnnnnnnn

Re: Re: Armin van Buuren's productions

quote:

Originally posted by Lunar Phase 7 Trance is pretty hard to get sounding right.

I strongly disagree.

this thread is everything that is wrong with the internets balled into 1

Re: Re: Re: Armin van Buuren's productions

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery I strongly disagree.

That's perfectly fine.

quote:

Originally posted by Guest this thread is everything that is wrong with the internets balled into 1

Why? Because we haven't started calling each other names & pulling each others hair yet ?

Re: Re: Armin van Buuren's productions

quote:

Originally posted by Lunar Phase 7 Trance is pretty hard to get sounding right. Lots of delays and reverb and big synths eating up head room. Busy basslines and booming kicks. It's tough to get everything to work together, and still have clarity.

I strongly AGREE.

Everybody knowning what he/she is talking about would also.

This is also why I completely disagree with people who keep referring to trance from 10 years ago as the real thing.

But that's just my view....

Someone pointed me to this thread, so I thought I'd stick up for myself!

As �Lunar Phase� pointed out Trance music can be loaded with many large reverbs and delays, layers and every sound will be fighting for space. For me, this creates the best music for clubs, as you get lost in all those sounds and fx swirling around�hence the meaning Trance�.and that�s where the name originally came from.
However some of the Psy guys head for a more minimal sound, focusing on mainly the kick and bass, leaving plenty of head room for those sharp hats and riffs, this is why they sound so clear.
It becomes a personal choice for each producer, I myself opt for the more fuller sound with width and layers but unfortunately have to sacrifice the clarity due to this. I make music for clubs and festivals, and this sound works perfectly in these environments. Armin however makes music for the masses, his music will be also be played on radio so he we ensure the tracks sound good for radio too. The mastering guys will also add their take to this, my guy for instance masters for the club environment, and I expect Armin�s guys master in a completely different way for radio etc.
You�ll hear a huge difference in the new John 00 Fleming & Digital Blonde (00.db) productions in 2009, I headed for a much cleaner sound on some of the tracks. Also Digital Blonde puts his hands up to not being a great engineer, (he�s a genius writer though!!) hence his very muddy productions. I�m teaching him though!
The different production/engineering styles can add flavor to DJ set, each track has it�s own feeling, and I use these �feelings� to steer my sets in a different direction when I feel it needs it. It can be a powerful tool when changing the mood on the dancefloor and I assess this when programming my sets live.
That�s my take on it!
Thanks Domesticated for the verbal attack

Thanks for sharing some insight on your work John. Well put.

i dont mind if something isnt completely clear in any tune.
I love adding lots of reverb to my percs, i think it gives a bit of a liquid property to the sound.

Tiesto goes overdrive on reverb , but he's shit right .

Armin also boasts he's never used an engineer , but if you use good mixing it shouldnt matter.

quote:

Originally posted by adi_hanson Armin also boasts he's never used an enginner , but if you use good mixing it shouldnt matter.

Rumour has it armin went to shit AFTER he stopped having an engineer for his tracks. Rumour has a good point there.

quote:

Originally posted by John 00 Fleming Someone pointed me to this thread, so I thought I'd stick up for myself! As �Lunar Phase� pointed out Trance music can be loaded with many large reverbs and delays, layers and every sound will be fighting for space. For me, this creates the best music for clubs, as you get lost in all those sounds and fx swirling around�hence the meaning Trance�.and that�s where the name originally came from. However some of the Psy guys head for a more minimal sound, focusing on mainly the kick and bass, leaving plenty of head room for those sharp hats and riffs, this is why they sound so clear. It becomes a personal choice for each producer, I myself opt for the more fuller sound with width and layers but unfortunately have to sacrifice the clarity due to this. I make music for clubs and festivals, and this sound works perfectly in these environments. Armin however makes music for the masses, his music will be also be played on radio so he we ensure the tracks sound good for radio too. The mastering guys will also add their take to this, my guy for instance masters for the club environment, and I expect Armin�s guys master in a completely different way for radio etc. You�ll hear a huge difference in the new John 00 Fleming & Digital Blonde (00.db) productions in 2009, I headed for a much cleaner sound on some of the tracks. Also Digital Blonde puts his hands up to not being a great engineer, (he�s a genius writer though!!) hence his very muddy productions. I�m teaching him though! The different production/engineering styles can add flavor to DJ set, each track has it�s own feeling, and I use these �feelings� to steer my sets in a different direction when I feel it needs it. It can be a powerful tool when changing the mood on the dancefloor and I assess this when programming my sets live. That�s my take on it! Thanks Domesticated for the verbal attack

good reply
and yes those who can write good tracks often strugle with tecnicalty.
and the reverse can aply

with the amount of touring this guy does, i dont think he has time to sit down and engineer tracks properly. he probably makes most of his own stuff, however he has enough money to pay an engineer to mix it down. its not a bad move and your productions will sound good when someone who only engineers tracks does it for you. its their profession. he wouldn't master his own stuff either.

alot of producers don't have the money to pay someone to engineer their tracks so they aren't perfect, but what is? it seems like most other genres of music, the bands have engineers to record them and mixdown their tracks.

I've only heard one AVB production I actually enjoyed and that was his remix of IIO's Rapture. Well... Communication wasn't too bad either as I remember it.

As for the rest: it doesn't matter how nice the production is when all he does is write crap.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I've only heard one AVB production I actually enjoyed and that was his remix of IIO's Rapture. Well... Communication wasn't too bad either as I remember it. As for the rest: it doesn't matter how nice the production is when all he does is write crap.

Zocalo > your life

quote:

Originally posted by Neo95gt Zocalo > your life

No.


Blue Fear is pretty damn good I think.

quote:

Originally posted by John 00 Fleming Someone pointed me to this thread, so I thought I'd stick up for myself! As �Lunar Phase� pointed out Trance music can be loaded with many large reverbs and delays, layers and every sound will be fighting for space. For me, this creates the best music for clubs, as you get lost in all those sounds and fx swirling around�hence the meaning Trance�.and that�s where the name originally came from. However some of the Psy guys head for a more minimal sound, focusing on mainly the kick and bass, leaving plenty of head room for those sharp hats and riffs, this is why they sound so clear. It becomes a personal choice for each producer, I myself opt for the more fuller sound with width and layers but unfortunately have to sacrifice the clarity due to this. I make music for clubs and festivals, and this sound works perfectly in these environments. Armin however makes music for the masses, his music will be also be played on radio so he we ensure the tracks sound good for radio too. The mastering guys will also add their take to this, my guy for instance masters for the club environment, and I expect Armin�s guys master in a completely different way for radio etc. You�ll hear a huge difference in the new John 00 Fleming & Digital Blonde (00.db) productions in 2009, I headed for a much cleaner sound on some of the tracks. Also Digital Blonde puts his hands up to not being a great engineer, (he�s a genius writer though!!) hence his very muddy productions. I�m teaching him though! The different production/engineering styles can add flavor to DJ set, each track has it�s own feeling, and I use these �feelings� to steer my sets in a different direction when I feel it needs it. It can be a powerful tool when changing the mood on the dancefloor and I assess this when programming my sets live. That�s my take on it! Thanks Domesticated for the verbal attack

Sorry for the attack John - it was more in jest than anything, as I own plenty of your tracks and have paid to see you DJ on several occasions, as you are someone I respect greatly.

I'm glad my criticism drew you out of the woodwork, because I've been wondering about your reasoning behind compression/mastering for quite a while.

While I fully understand and appreciate your explanation, it doesn't make home listening any less frustrating when one listens to a very clean, minimal Israeli-style production, such as Ace Ventura or Zen Mechanics, and can hear every small detail perfectly, then immediately after listens to a production such as yours, where the depth of sound and melody is maximal, and even though you're fully aware that there are fantastic elements in there, they can get drowned out at times and you feel like you're missing out on something.

In regards to making music "for clubs and festivals", rather than the radio, again I can appreciate and respect that, but there are quite a few producers who never aimed to be played on radio, yet manage to achieve a sound that's clear as a bell on both tinny home systems and booming club rigs, even with an abundance of layers.

I think Simon Posford is a good example of this. He uses an incredible amount of layers in his work yet still manages to maintain a crisp sound.

Finally, I just want to re-iterate the fact that this is not a personal attack or harsh critisicm of your work. I'm fully aware that I could never achieve what you have, musically or technically, and that it's lofty to make such criticisms without your own ability to back it up.

I do enjoy your music greatly, otherwise I wouldn't buy it - all I'm expressing is a frustration that such great music could be made even greater (personal preference, I know), yet there is a conscious effort not to do this.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated Sorry for the attack John - it was more in jest than anything, as I own plenty of your tracks and have paid to see you DJ on several occasions, as you are someone I respect greatly. I'm glad my criticism drew you out of the woodwork, because I've been wondering about your reasoning behind compression/mastering for quite a while. While I fully understand and appreciate your explanation, it doesn't make home listening any less frustrating when one listens to a very clean, minimal Israeli-style production, such as Ace Ventura or Zen Mechanics, and can hear every small detail perfectly, then immediately after listens to a production such as yours, where the depth of sound and melody is maximal, and even though you're fully aware that there are fantastic elements in there, they can get drowned out at times and you feel like you're missing out on something. In regards to making music "for clubs and festivals", rather than the radio, again I can appreciate and respect that, but there are quite a few producers who never aimed to be played on radio, yet manage to achieve a sound that's clear as a bell on both tinny home systems and booming club rigs, even with an abundance of layers. I think Simon Posford is a good example of this. He uses an incredible amount of layers in his work yet still manages to maintain a crisp sound. Finally, I just want to re-iterate the fact that this is not a personal attack or harsh critisicm of your work. I'm fully aware that I could never achieve what you have, musically or technically, and that it's lofty to make such criticisms without your own ability to back it up. I do enjoy your music greatly, otherwise I wouldn't buy it - all I'm expressing is a frustration that such great music could be made even greater (personal preference, I know), yet there is a conscious effort not to do this.

bro, I didn't think the "fuck you" was necessary.

I always wondered how insane it would be to see someone on the internet tell you off because they don't like your track or something, that must be weird.

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