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-- Slain father taught boy to use guns, priest says

Slain father taught boy to use guns, priest says

This story is interesting on so many levels. The police are pressing to try an 8 year old as an adult for homicide based on an admission obtained while questioning the boy without the consent of a guardian. Truly horrific police work. to top that off, an 8 year old charged as an adult. come on now!! then their is the whole gun issue, why the is an 8 year old being trained to use a gun at all.

quote:

Slain father taught boy to use guns, priest says FLAGSTAFF, Arizona (AP) -- A man who police believe was shot and killed by his 8-year-old son had consulted a Roman Catholic priest about whether the boy should have a gun and had taught him how to use firearms, the clergyman said. The Very Rev. John Paul Sauter said the man, Vincent Romero, 29, wanted his son to learn how to hunt, but the boy's stepmother, Tiffany, suggested that he have a BB gun. Police say the boy used a 22.-caliber rifle Wednesday to kill his father and another man, Timothy Romans, 39, of San Carlos. Romero was an avid hunter who taught his son how to use a rifle to kill prairie dogs, said Sauter, of St. Johns Catholic Church. "He wanted to make sure the kid wasn't afraid of guns, knew how to handle it," the priest said. "He was just too young. ... That child, I don't think he knows what he did, and it was brutal." The boy, who faces two counts of premeditated murder, did not act on the spur of the moment, St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said. "I'm not accusing anybody of anything at this point," he said Saturday. "But we're certainly going to look at the abuse part of this. He's 8 years old. He just doesn't decide one day that he's going to shoot his father and shoot his father's friend for no reason. Something led up to this." On Friday, a judge ordered a psychological evaluation of the boy. Under Arizona law, charges can be filed against anyone 8 or older. The boy had no record of complaints with Arizona Child Protective Services, said Apache County Attorney Brad Carlyon. "He had no record of any kind, not even a disciplinary record at school," he said. "He has never been in trouble before." In a sign of the emotional and legal complexities of the case, police are pushing to have the boy tried as an adult even as they investigate possible abuse, Melnick said. If convicted as a minor, the boy could be sent to juvenile detention until he turns 18. Watch an expert's take on the situation � Police had responded to calls of domestic violence at the Romero home, but authorities were searching records Saturday to determine when those calls were placed, Melnick said. "We're going to use every avenue of the law that's available to us, but we're also looking at the human side," he said. Melnick said officers arrived at Romero's home within minutes of the shooting Wednesday in St. Johns, which has a population of about 4,000 and is 170 miles northeast of Phoenix. They found one victim just outside the front door and the other dead in an upstairs room. Romans had been renting a room at the Romero house, prosecutors said. Both men were employees of a construction company working at a power plant near St. Johns. The boy went to a neighbor's house and said he "believed that his father was dead," Carlyon said. Melnick said police got a confession, but the boy's attorney, Benjamin Brewer, said police overreached in questioning the boy without representation from a parent or attorney and did not advise him of his rights. "They became very accusing early on in the interview," Brewer said. "Two officers with guns at their side, it's very scary for anybody, for sure an 8-year-old kid." Prosecutors aren't sure where the case is headed, Carlyon said. "There's a ton of factors to be considered and weighed, including the juvenile's age," he said. "The counterbalance against that, the acts that he apparently committed." FBI statistics show that instances of children younger than 11 committing homicides are very rare. According to recent FBI supplementary homicide reports, there were at least three such cases each year in 2003, 2004 and 2005; there were at least 15 in 2002. More recent statistics weren't available, nor were details of the cases. Earlier this year in Arizona, prosecutors in Cochise County filed first-degree murder charges against a 12-year-old boy accused of killing his mother. Romero had full custody of the child. The boy's biological mother visited St. Johns during the weekend from Mississippi and returned to Arizona after the shootings, Carlyon said. Family members declined to speak on the record. Brewer said the boy "seems to be in good spirits." "He's scared," he said. "He's trying to be tough, but he's scared."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/08...d.ap/index.html

jesus, is a judge really going to let that slide?

quote:

Romero was an avid hunter who taught his son how to use a rifle to kill prairie dogs, said Sauter, of St. Johns Catholic Church. "He wanted to make sure the kid wasn't afraid of guns, knew how to handle it," the priest said. "He was just too young. ... That child, I don't think he knows what he did, and it was brutal."

quote:

On Friday, a judge ordered a psychological evaluation of the boy. Under Arizona law, charges can be filed against anyone 8 or older.

I really don't know where to start.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN jesus, is a judge really going to let that slide?

i doubt it. in case it does happen, i doubt a jury would be as willing to see an 8 years old life end so soon.

All I can say really is that's one fed up and tragic situation really. You're the lawyer, perhaps you could expand on what you think i.e. I'd like to hear your professional perspective even though you're a tax lawyer if I recall correctly?

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z All I can say really is that's one fed up and tragic situation really. You're the lawyer, perhaps you could expand on what you think i.e. I'd like to hear your professional perspective even though you're a tax lawyer if I recall correctly?

you have it correct, I am a tax lawyer.

To begin, no 8 year old should be taught how to use a gun; although that isn't the interesting part of this case. The unbelievably careless police work is much more interesting. Apparently the police thought it was okay to question an 8 year old without guardian approval, and drag out a confession of an 8 year old. While I haven't done litigation, and I have little to no experience with the rules of evidence, I doubt this could even come close to being admissible in a court. Even if it was admissible, I can't see it as being entirely useful to the state's case considering the jury will certainly feel sympathy for the child. I don't see how the state of Arizona expects to show a case like that to a jury and expect them not to see a scared 8 year old boy that just now realizes his father is gone for good.

Furthermore, an 8 year old truly doesn't have the mental capacity to understand the consequences of killing someone. Kids play video games like grand theft auto and other games in which a person doesn't die after being shot, and if they do die that person has a second chance.

I believe the article said the boy premediated the murders. Seriously? An 8 year old formulated a devious plan to knock of his father and a friend? I just can't buy that. That's something a psychologic would have to testify, but from the 8 year olds I've known throughtout my life the most premeditation they do is planning their play time after school.

I expect once the state's attorney gets full control of the case the state's position will soften immensely. A state attorney's primary job is to ensure justice. Sending an 8 year old to jail for 40 years isn't justice, it's imposing an enormous cost on society, and destroying a life that has yet to start. My personal feelings are that the kid shouldn't serve anytime at all because at some point in his life he will realize that he killed his father, and I suspect that little fact will destroy him one day. The kid should live with another family member without any firearms around. A kid won't learn not to be violent by placing him in a juvenile detention center with other more violent teens. that just makes no sense to me.

Call me an idiot for bringing this debate into this, but bonus points for easily accessible guns.

quote:

Originally posted by noikeee Call me an idiot for bringing this debate into this, but bonus points for easily accessible guns.

apparently gun purchases in the south have been on the rise since the election of Obama. Hopefully the gun purchasers are right and there will be more severe restrictions.

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