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Posted by Kia Kaha on Jun-03-2002 03:45:

Pro DJs and hearing loss

Morning all ...

Went out clubbing last night and had a bloody good time ... woke up in bed about lunchtime today with that familiar feeling of jelly legs from dancing, sweaty club clothes strewn on floor, a healthy feeling of residual euphoria and a fuckin unbelievable ringing in my ears ... I'm sure y'all have experienced similar things

Been thinking about it today and am seriously wondering. I have a job right now where I have to meet certain medical standards and hearing is one of them, if I lose too much of my hearing then I'm f****d basically. I also love going out dancing on a weekend, and while I'm only a bedroom DJ now it's something I would love to get into, properly spinning in clubs.

So my question is, how the hell do those pro DJs do this shit, year in and year out without suffering massive permanent tinnitis? Anyone got any good advice? Normal ear plugs make the music sound like shit, I tried some of those flash 'musicians' ear plugs one time as well, but they kept on falling out.

Posted by Gluegun on Jun-03-2002 04:47:

Many do suffer massive hearing loss. Why do you think the midbass on headphones like the sony mdr-v700dj's is so physical, overriding every other frequency with boomy midbass you feel, sacraficing all other parts of the sound to get this under all circumstances?

So deaf dj's can spin with them, of course!

So, to PREVENT becoming deaf, invest in a set of Sennheiser HD280 Pro headphones, since those isolate a lot and let you use much quieter volume levels, and buy a set of Etymotic ER20 earplugs for when you wanna be in a club and enjoy the music. Those earplugs are better than others cause they are like AVLS for your ears -- they let you still hear the music, but it's all reduced evenly, and the peaks are more normal. That's why they are musician's earplugs instead of like, bedtime earplugs....

Posted by zapper on Jun-03-2002 15:49:

Ha, ha, ha

Just another opportunity for Gluegun to show how much he despises the MDR-V700's... I respect your opinion, but seriously, they ARE good for DJing. Well, I don't want to start another discussion about this, so... end of story.

And to Kia Kaha, I don't know, but I guess most DJs who have been spinning for a while do get reduced hearing, that's logical.

Posted by j_spot on Jun-03-2002 18:31:

well the V700 are great for DJs who learn them. And its quite easy to do so when you have moderate hearing damage from all the music we listen to.

but yes, wear earplugs..maybe not the etys because they cost hella lot. But go to a music store(like for musicians) and ask if they have anything, they might just tell you to go to a hardware store.

Posted by Gluegun on Jun-03-2002 19:19:

Hey, those headphones and DJ headphones like them are good for DJ's that have hearing loss, which is all that I was saying...

Posted by j_spot on Jun-03-2002 20:17:

and I was wrong, its the ety headphones that cost hella lot

the etymonic earplugs only cost $10, and are reuseable

Posted by DJ Chrono on Jun-04-2002 02:15:

If you are really serious about this, go to an audiologist. they can make a mold of your inner ear, and form plugs to specifically stick in their.. and then you buy things called filters. There are differnt strengths, ranging from 10db to 30db.. And the good thing about these are that the frequency range is UNALTERED.. just the volume is lower.. so you can hear the same physical sound quality without damaging your ears. they fit niceless too, and dont stick out like some, so DJ heaphone wearing is good.

the only problem is that these are a bit pricey.. i've heard about $350 canadian.. but they do last for ever. and filters are replaceable.

hearing is a valuble thing, investing $350 to insure u dont go deaf isnt that bad.

Also Magnesium helps to prevent hearing loss.. so if you dont want to shell out the cash for plugs, take magnesium.

Posted by mindshooter on Jun-04-2002 09:44:

I hear the ringing everytime i try to sleep and its all quiet... even though i havent been on a party. So you could say that im already to late I havent been to many parties. And when i have..ive used earplugs. But its my freestyle who got me. I listened to loud. And i always used headphones by the computer. I raised the volume more and more, everyday. You know what i mean. You get used to the sound. Now ive read that when your ears get used to a certain volume. That means that they already took damage. So if you raise the volume. You will just get worse. Which i did
Now i cant use headphones more. And when i do i use them on a VERY low volume. I get pain in my ears everytime i go to the cinema. Its really painfull. Dont make my misstake! Its not worth it. I had to lay down all DJ dreams ive ever had. I had even collected money to buy equipment but i just had to forget that now. Tinnitus can never get better, only worse. And one day you wake up with a ringing over 70 DB in your ear (louder than a vaccum cleaner) which you will have the rest of your life.

Peace

Posted by quddha on Jun-04-2002 10:10:

Posted by mindshooter on Jun-05-2002 05:49:

quote:
Originally posted by quddha
I couldn't imagine what life would be like if I couldn't listen to all the details of my music.

Its not that bad yet... I never hear the ringing except when its total silence..but as i said...it can only get worse and no operation in the world can make it go away.
Out of 9 million swedish ppl 1.5 million ppl has tinnitus.
Its not hard to get. And ppl who loves music are in the danger zone.
Take care alright

Posted by Gluegun on Jun-05-2002 05:52:

*Proudly holds up his Etymotic ER20's (the transparent red ones) with the matching red string to hold them together.*

*Drapes the string around his neck...*

w00t!

Posted by Kia Kaha on Jun-05-2002 06:15:

Hmmm

been looking at that Etymotic website and it's quite interesting ...

What do you reckon about those in-ear monitors / ear plug things then, could you use those for trance mixing?

Posted by Gluegun on Jun-05-2002 06:42:

The Etymotic headphones are some of the best dynamic headphones on the planet. The ER4S constitutes one of the better studio monitors on the planet...

However, while these headphones are perhaps some of the best studio monitors out there, you get a...few problems with DJing...

1.) While Etymotic headphones provide incredible 'you hear it but don't feel it and ohmyfuckinggoditssogoodihaveneverheardbasslikethisooooohhhhhhmmmmmmm bass, that is dependant on the *fit* of the headphone. The better (notice I did not say deeper, but I said 'better') seal you have, the better the bass. What happens if you don't have a good seal for whatever reason halfway through your mix? There goes your bass!

2.) You can fix this problem by getting custom earmolds from your local audiologist for maybe $100. Those let you get a perfect seal every time

3.) No matter what, even with earmolds, it will take a few seconds of fiddling with them PER EAR to get the Etymotic headphones in. Really, is 10 seconds to put both on and get them sealed right usable in a DJ situation?

4.) What happens if these get yanked out of your ear? Since they make a vacuum seal, can you say 'owie'? This is a documented thing--etymotic headphones are headphones that you *sit down with*!! Like on a bus or train or plane or when you want to ignore the rest of the world and go into your own little world of you.. and music... and bliss.. and NOTHING else.

5.) What about microphonics? Tap the cord and you get a loud BUMP or THUMP! Imagine that messing up your beatmatching!

That being said, Etymotic headphones are still some of the best in the planet.

http://www.headphone.com/layout.php...2&subTopicID=19

http://www.headphone.com/layout.php...ctID=0020100000

However, as DJ's, you might like the drivability and added bass of the ER4P... it would be perfect for something with low power, like a portable player.. and, as many DJ mixers are, erm, not quite alllll that quality, this would work! Also, you can buy an adaptor to make the ER4P's act EXACTLY like the ER4S, so that helps too!

http://www.headphone.com/layout.php...ctID=0020100005

Posted by quddha on Jun-05-2002 11:26:

lol, gluegun you're such an audio nerd.

i mean that in a good way. lol... reminds me of the comic store dude from the simpsons, except instead of a comic-know-it-all, you're an audio-know-it-all..

Posted by nrjizer on Jun-08-2002 06:03:

quote:
Originally posted by mindshooter
I hear the ringing everytime i try to sleep and its all quiet... even though i havent been on a party. So you could say that im already to late I havent been to many parties. And when i have..ive used earplugs. But its my freestyle who got me. I listened to loud. And i always used headphones by the computer. I raised the volume more and more, everyday. You know what i mean. You get used to the sound. Now ive read that when your ears get used to a certain volume. That means that they already took damage. So if you raise the volume. You will just get worse. Which i did
Now i cant use headphones more. And when i do i use them on a VERY low volume. I get pain in my ears everytime i go to the cinema. Its really painfull. Dont make my misstake! Its not worth it. I had to lay down all DJ dreams ive ever had. I had even collected money to buy equipment but i just had to forget that now. Tinnitus can never get better, only worse. And one day you wake up with a ringing over 70 DB in your ear (louder than a vaccum cleaner) which you will have the rest of your life.

Peace

I get some ringing in my ears when its _dead_ quiet. Even something like the AC blowing thru the floor vent will make it go away tho. Its been like this for quite a long time.

Im really starting to worry about my hearing. Ive always had really good hearing and could always pick out faint sounds that others couldnt, but I listen to music a lot on my headphones, not at totally ear blasting levels, but moderately loud. I read somewhere that your ears are safe for up to 8 hours of continuous exposure at 80db. My pc speakers have a maximum output of 106db, and Ive never turned them higher than half way up (theyre loud ). I dont really party that much either. But after listening for a while on my phones, I can "feel" it in my ears.

I really hope im not doing any serious damage. Im always consious about keeping the volumes to a certain level, but sometimes that doesnt even seem good enough

Posted by Gluegun on Jun-08-2002 06:11:

Heya nrjizer,

Don't worry about any particular source more than any other... for the factor that affects your hearing is universal:

Loudness, especially over time.

As a general rule, you should try and listen so it is just barely not too quiet, and you should take hearing protection anywhere very loud..

Yea, since you have even a slight ringing at night, that pretty much is tinnitus, so you have to be EXTRA CAREFUL, as it can only get worse!

Posted by nrjizer on Jun-08-2002 07:52:

quote:
Originally posted by Gluegun

As a general rule, you should try and listen so it is just barely not too quiet, and you should take hearing protection anywhere very loud..

Ive never really blasted it while at home, always just kept it right at an "ear filling" level, you could say. Its not like going down the highway in a car or riding in the boat is any worse than music.

I certainly dont blast it like a lot of people I know do in their cars and at home.

I got 3 ear infections from swimming last summer, and have sinus/allergy issues, which could both be the cause.. oh well, Ill just try to be careful

Posted by Scorchio on Jun-08-2002 10:27:

Special ear plugs that lower the volium...