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Were you more creative as a newbie producer?

I was browsing through the Production Studio today and found these two posts:

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Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox I actually just went through all my new work from about 5 years ago when I first started. It really is crazy to go back and see how far you've came and how shitty your first attempts at music were and wtf you were thinking.

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery I think I had much more daring/creative ideas back then even if the production itself is quite terrible.

In this thread: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=496388

I have to say that I feel like this occasionally. Sometimes I browse through old Reason files and find stuff that I don't even remember making. The production is really simple compared to what I can do now, but a lot of the times the ideas are really interesting or creative. It seems like now that I've been producing for years, I find myself falling into pre-programmed routines when I'm writing a track rather than just exploring sounds and ideas like I did in my newbie days.

Anyone feel this way sometimes?

I completely agree that and I wish there was a way out of this. Now I just feel that i am looping the same ideas over and over again.

I used a lot of tracker during my newbie years and I think the tracker type user interface might promote creativity. You just can bang keyboard with amazing speed and come up with new creative riffs and patterns.

That is probably because it was more fun in the beginning, and having fun while making music can really reflect the sound, and give it personality.

And by having fun i mean, just making music without thinking too much about it.
I atleast find myself focusing too much about everything sounding as correct as possible.

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Originally posted by Subtle And by having fun i mean, just making music without thinking too much about it.

This might be a big part of it. As you make more music and listen to more music over the years, you can get more self-conscious about it: "Does this sound 'right?' Does this sound too much like what I already did?" But in the beginning it's all just exploration really, not trying to live up to some "standard," unless you're one of those people who starts out dead-set on sounding like Tiesto or whatever.

it all comes down to what you think is the most important.
technicality or creativity?
for me creativity comes to the forefront if things then worry about the rest later on

my history isnt that long so im not that much better than i was, nor have i lost my creativity yet, but some of my oldest tracks are indeed creative but suckable sounding. one of them i even have trouble playing back due CPU stuff. dont know how i did it then but i had a better soundcard so it might be something with that.

I think part of the issue is that we are both engineers and artists - I feel we get too bogged down with the technology and the process of producing, rather than just being creative and letting your art produce itself.

Don't forget, being technical and being artistic require two very different approaches but we try to do both at once.

I cant belive that i didnt touch production until december last year and in 10 months ive got this far.

Listening back , im think how raw and techno'y they sounded.

and ive gone from a laptop and added another screen, a roland sh201 which for its price is a great little synth and mastered the use of some of my vsti's.

and i nearly lost the lot over a five finger disco movie.

but i love producing and i wish i could stay home all day and create sounds and stuff.

i hope the future bring more of the same for me.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN I think part of the issue is that we are both engineers and artists - I feel we get too bogged down with the technology and the process of producing, rather than just being creative and letting your art produce itself. Don't forget, being technical and being artistic require two very different approaches but we try to do both at once.

partly the beauty of it imo. technology and creativity is a dangerous combination and if we use it on music and not something else then the world should be happy and safe for now.

I'd personally see myself as much more creative now. Before I found I'd pigeon holed myself into a genre and well.. once I realized I could pull it off I found it terribly boring. Lately I've been having a lot more IDM-esque influences and have been putting myself on a steeper learning curve than I had in the beginning. To me, the more I understand my tools, the more I develop both melody and sound-wise.

vicious circle when you havent a clue just making catchy songs from the heart relying on pure faith all you want is for them to sound pro. When you learn the mastering all you do if make them sound pro and possibly neglect to creative part.

One way i get round this is disconnect your synth from pc/mac stick in some batteries go drive to a field/park/cliffe edge/lake/ insert inspiration place here and play melodies over and over and design patches in headphones etc. I recently made a great track like this.

Helps if u got a mini synth though like a microkorg carrying a roland fantom to a park might be a bit crap.

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That is probably because it was more fun in the beginning, and having fun while making music can really reflect the sound, and give it personality.

I feel I'm much more creative now, and I enjoy producing more than ever. Lucky me, I suppose.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles This might be a big part of it. As you make more music and listen to more music over the years, you can get more self-conscious about it: "Does this sound 'right?' Does this sound too much like what I already did?" But in the beginning it's all just exploration really, not trying to live up to some "standard," unless you're one of those people who starts out dead-set on sounding like Tiesto or whatever.

How long have you been producing for then?

I think you can get stuck in a loop, I've been producing for over 3 years with CubaseSX and not finished a track yet but I've learnt so much.

Now each time I start a new project I get allot further with it because I dont have to think about the technical side of things as much, I'm hoping im finally reaching a point where I can get some releases.

Some famous tunes have been written in less than two days!

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Originally posted by david.michael I feel I'm much more creative now, and I enjoy producing more than ever. Lucky me, I suppose.

Yeah, it's all about having fun and being excited about what you're doing. When you put too much effort in mixing in the middle of a project, it's not fun anymore and you loose your sight on the feeling you were trying to achieve.

I have so much unfinished projects, because when there are certain amount of compositional elements (that the mix clutters), I'll switch to mixing engineer mode and can't get back to finishing the composition. Then it's just worthless playing with copy/pasteing with no emotion in the track and no excitement on my part.

I think I've started being more creative again now that I stopped trying to write dance music. I feel "confined" if I try to work within the limits of keeping a danceable beat and typical EDM song structure. Ambient weirdness is the way to go for me.

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Originally posted by daeus How long have you been producing for then?

About five years, although I messed around with some cheap sequencer and sound manipulation tools before that.

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Some famous tunes have been written in less than two days!

Yeah, the basic ideas for my best tracks have been written in under a day. When the creativity is flowing, I can really feel it.

my first stuff was horrible, but i just totally winged it back then.

I follow the guidelines and cliches that the genres i work in have, though I still try and do something crazy once in ahwhile.

No longer do I try to do crazy stuff like a hip hop trance beat with egyptian pop influences or whatever. I used to want to make really unique dance music, but now i'm like "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

I think my mistake in the beginning was that I was trying to make my music too complex. Then i realized that I was making dance music, you gotta make it for dance floors.

That said, I don't think I have full control over my songs. They kind of make themselves, it's like divine intervention sometimes.

I would say that it is a mixture of both really, i mean when i first started i didn't know what i was doing so i took a bunch of presets put in random notes, which i wouldn't say is very creative. On the other hand i didn't know typical dance structure because i was used to hearing radio versions or like 2 minute limewire(audio galaxy then) versions of songs. So my arrangements were much more creative.

Now, my arrangements aren't typical trance structure sometimes its have one melody playing fade it out, and fade in a new one. Sometimes its short breakdown, sometimes i progress the song slow and bring it quickly down and right back to the top (works great for acid trance.)

So really, i guess i would have to say now my arrangements aren't as random so they are less creative, however i like to think they are a little more unique then intro, buildup, 3 minute, breakdown etc.

And, the sounds i use are not just random tinkering a lot of the time like they were when i first started. usually my best sounds are a combintaion of both i kinda know what i want but not really. Also technology, has really helped me be creative, all the filters i use now, granular synthesis etc. i had no clue about when i first started.

So, to sum this up i think that now i am less creative because everything, isn't random like it used to when i first began, however i dont think this is a bad thing because my music is a lot more enjoyable.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles About five years, although I messed around with some cheap sequencer and sound manipulation tools before that. Yeah, the basic ideas for my best tracks have been written in under a day. When the creativity is flowing, I can really feel it.

Pete Heller's Big Love was started and finished in 4 hours! He made a good few hundred grand from that track.

After you fall into the trap of focussing on production as your skills are improving, you need to get over that and force yourself to focus on creativity again. It is possible, but also it's still very easy to get sucked into the production trap.
Try to separate the two as much as possible. I force myself to have either a composition or a production night. While not always entirely possible, this helps somewhat. You've got to catch yourself when composing .. if you start thinking 'i'll just eq this now because i know i'll need it' then you need to stop yourself. Can always eq later.

just one tip: don't limit yourself to one type of music, so people don't affix a stamp on your face like they did with me. Anything you do that doesn't match their criteria will be totally ignored, and that will affect your musical landscape. Dangerous. To stay in business, stay away from it. And by all means, outdo yourself every single time you start a new track.

L.

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Originally posted by Lolo just one tip: don't limit yourself to one type of music, so people don't affix a stamp on your face like they did with me. Anything you do that doesn't match their criteria will be totally ignored, and that will affect your musical landscape. Dangerous. To stay in business, stay away from it. And by all means, outdo yourself every single time you start a new track. L.

I'snt that why you have different aliases for different genre's?

Exactly... Still that's not enough, as if I had the word "hardtrance" affixed on my face. That's how stupid people can be at times.

As i beginner i also had a lot more creativity. This is mainly due to me not worrying about the sound quality as much and spending more time on composition.

A LOT of producers fall into the trap of sitting there for HOURS trying to get for example the kick and bass working together instead of concentrating on composition.

My way of working nowadays is to write the full track in under a day using software instruments and fx. I will then come back to the track and produce and mix it, exchanging many of the fx and instruments for hardware and analogue synths.

Working out of the box can help loads as it can get very tedious just staring at a computer screen. This CAN imo affect creativity. if you put me in front of an MPC i will turn out a good drum groove very quickly. Drawing in MIDi notes in cubase is not as inspiring or hands on, leading me to focus and worry too much about the sound quality rather than the groove!

hopefully people can relate to what im saying?

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Originally posted by dannib Working out of the box can help loads as it can get very tedious just staring at a computer screen. This CAN imo affect creativity.

I agree. This is why I like to close my eyes or turn the screen off and just let the track play so I can try to figure out what to add to it without the distraction of the sequencer window. Like Sean Booth from Autechre said:

"When we're putting things down and mixing things and are trying to make things sound right, the screen has to go off. It's an illusion that totally pollutes what you're thinking and what you're listening to. Yes, you can be in the zone when sitting with a laptop. You absolutely can. But you just want to listen and not interact with the device. The worst things are the timeline sequencers where you can see on the screen what's coming up. That really f**ks with your head when you're listening."

Interesting interview with the guys from Autechre: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr...es/autechre.htm

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