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Faxing Berlin loop and FL Studio 8

Pretty interesting article from Future Music magazine:

http://www.futuremusic.co.uk/page/f...t_use_fl_studio

That's awful. How can you mix a unesable loop with thousands of royalty free loops, then claim you can't use it in a track? Image Line are fucking morons.

Interesting. Quite interesting to see whom should be held accountable. I say Image Line, personally.

Would somebody mind making screenshots of the Imageline forums, or copypaste them comments somehow. Image Line has this huge fail where non-costumers can't user their forums apparently.

2x proof why my avatar rules.

I wonder what the KLF would have to say about this...? I picked out what looked interesting:

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I used the loop "Berlin" in one of my songs on a cd I recently finished only to be contacted by an angry deadmau5 threatening legal action.

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I've asked for it to be checked. If I remember correctly, we've licensed stuff from Joel a couple of years ago, it's probably from the lot. (JM? Buckskin?)

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Perhaps Timbaland can get you out of this?

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As far as we were told by our lawyers it's even impossible to sell material that holds 'intellectual property'.

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Then you can't sell ANY samples, since they all constitute intellectual property (in the form of sound recording copyrights)... guess your lawyer sucks.

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I tried giving Deadmau5 my number and asking him to talk to me so he could hear the Image-Lien situation and he responded: "um. no. i cherish my privacy more than i cherish knockoff artists. do you really want to go this route? please refrain from contacting me further, if you have any more questions, you can speak to my lawyer. im sure he will be contacting you soon."

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It's clearly our fault that those loops are there, and I still don't know if they're free or not (JM says they were given to us, it's still unclear if it's as demo clips or to be used freely).

This one made me laugh:

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btw, if there's at least something we can conclude from this thread: FL's included samples apparently DON'T suck as much as everyone always pretends (or no one would use them)

And this:

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They certainly are ... as long as you use them in your own composition so the result becomes a composition of your own. Just don't expect to : - take a Sytrus (or whatever) preset/sequence - render it as a song - put it online & sell it as your own - defend you for doing so quote: ~Pd~ wrote: Could you tell me what specific language in the EULA or elsewhere legally prevents me from doing that? It probably doesn't and which is where we asumed it was comon sense you don't steal anything and put it up for sale pretending to be yours.

This is important to know about samples:

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JMC, a ripoff of Faxing Berlin really isnt the point here. If DirtyCircuit had manipulated the loop to sound nothing like Faxing Berlin what so ever, Joel could still sue him in exactly the same way. The 'recorded' audio in the loop wasnt royalty free.

Joel's loops may be:

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At first sight the ones that come from pack that Joel provided us with are : * AfterhoursC_128bpm * LP_AfterhoursH_128bpm * LP_AssortedA_128bpm * LP_BounceB_127bpm * LP_IlikeYourMusicA_128bpm * LP_LollercoasterA_128bpm * LP_Faxing Berlin C_128bpm * LP_Faxing Berlin A_128bpm * LP_Its Not YouC_128bpm * LP_Hey BabyC_96bpm

Wait, so Faxing Berlin was giving to image line as a demo song for fruity loops, then Deadmau5 also commercially released it?
Or
Deadmau5 sold image line a bunch of loops to sell as a sample pack and then subsequently also constructed Faxing berlin from them?

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Originally posted by kitphillips Wait, so Faxing Berlin was giving to image line as a demo song for fruity loops, then Deadmau5 also commercially released it? Or Deadmau5 sold image line a bunch of loops to sell as a sample pack and then subsequently also constructed Faxing berlin from them?

Neither. Deadmau5 gave loops from "Faxing Berlin" to Image Line, and then some other producer tried to use those loops to make his own song.

What confuses me is that mau5 claims he uses FL studio in certain cases, so would he not have known his loops are in there and will be used?

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Originally posted by Stef What confuses me is that mau5 claims he uses FL studio in certain cases, so would he not have known his loops are in there and will be used?

Only if he browsed through all the loops in the program.

Some producers don't even use pre-made loops. I don't...

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Originally posted by kitphillips Wait, so Faxing Berlin was giving to image line as a demo song for fruity loops, then Deadmau5 also commercially released it? Or Deadmau5 sold image line a bunch of loops to sell as a sample pack and then subsequently also constructed Faxing berlin from them?

so why did image line not put it in its own folder? just throwing it in A folder with a bunch of other loops is just asking for trouble IMO.

Man, I used to like mau5, but, the more I hear things like this, the more I think he is a douche bag. If your track made it big already and people know it, why would u care if someone uses a loop from your track. It would make everyone think, ah, thats from mau5. (more attention to his music). I think he should go put his stupid mouse suit on and go make Micky Mouse music for the children and leave us alone

I don't even understand why people use premade drumloops... completely and utterly uncreative.

I disagree. That depends on the context the loop is used it.

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Originally posted by Storyteller I disagree. That depends on the context the loop is used it.

Yep. Those who are so anti-loops clearly have no idea how to properly utilize a good loop.

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Originally posted by kitphillips so why did image line not put it in its own folder? just throwing it in A folder with a bunch of other loops is just asking for trouble IMO.

That's what I'm thinking. If this bloke would get in trouble because of Deadmau5, I think the guy has a case on Image Line. It doesn't tell you it's not royalty free anywhere, while Image Line claims to provide royalty free samples. Putting uncleared samples in the same folder with royalty free samples is asking for trouble. From what I've read so far there is no way to to see that the samples in question are uncleared. And the author of the `rip-off` very likely hasn't heard of Deadmau5, until he knocked on his door to sue.

I've read all the forums and write ups about this and I'm still not able to make sense of something...

Did Deadmau5 make/give/grant the use of the loops to Image Line? If so, what was the intended purpose or agreement of their use? If not, why wouldn't he threaten to sue Image Line instead of the bedroom producer who claims to have never heard of the song? (I believe this Dirty Circuit guy, he's coincidentally from my dreaded hometown of Metairie Louisiana, the laws of physics do not apply there!!!!)...

really confused here

That's exactly what I'm thinking. Time will tell?

Well, if he signed over the rights to image line, theres a chance that they could sue him because he then went on to use material that they owned in a commercial release...

Clearly the guy who used the loops had heard of Deadmau5 because he named the track "Berlin", I think? Which makes me wonder why he even bothered to try and release the track?

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Originally posted by kitphillips Clearly the guy who used the loops had heard of Deadmau5 because he named the track "Berlin", I think? Which makes me wonder why he even bothered to try and release the track?

The samples used had "Faxing Berlin" in their filename, I guess that's where he got it from.

Well, I think it's a little pathetic from Joel to instantly sue the bedroom producer without even listening to his side. If he did that, he should knew that Image Line probably was the one to blame.

However, looking it from the other side. I personally think that if it's not cleary stated if samples are free to use, it's not wise to use them. Because I think that it has to be clearly stated that the samples are free to use, not the other way around.

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Originally posted by Theran However, looking it from the other side. I personally think that if it's not cleary stated if samples are free to use, it's not wise to use them. Because I think that it has to be clearly stated that the samples are free to use, not the other way around.

As far as I know, Image Line billed all of the FL samples as "royalty-free."

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Originally posted by Theran Well, I think it's a little pathetic from Joel to instantly sue the bedroom producer without even listening to his side. If he did that, he should knew that Image Line probably was the one to blame. However, looking it from the other side. I personally think that if it's not cleary stated if samples are free to use, it's not wise to use them. Because I think that it has to be clearly stated that the samples are free to use, not the other way around.

So, everybody in this story is in the wrong. But, Joel is coming off as a huge jackass once again.

Quoted from the Computer Music website:

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I installed the FL demo and took a look at what it said regarding samples. If you go to Help followed by Product Information followed by Samples and Sounds you will see the following at the bottom of the page: "All samples are royalty-free, which means you can use the samples in your own compositions and songs without paying any further royalties. You are not allowed, however, to resell or redistribute any or all of the samples as a sample pack or sample CD." cheers, matrix http://matrixsynth.blogspto.com Note I also posted this here: http://matrixsynth.blogspot.com/2008/11 ... ou-in.html You can find a link to another forum discussing this as well.

I'd say Image Line is wrong and the one to blame. Not Dirty Circuit nor Deadmau5. I personally think Deadmau5 should aim his legal action towards Image Line.

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Originally posted by Theran Well, I think it's a little pathetic from Joel to instantly sue the bedroom producer without even listening to his side. If he did that, he should knew that Image Line probably was the one to blame.

Yes, yes indeed. He seemingly cannot do more in his humanly power to become less of a personable character. He's an asshole and he's adamant on showing the world just how much of one he is, from one incident to the next. Whether using a loops like those make for good music isn't the point here (though I'd have to admit I think that's a pretty cheap way of going about production). If those samples weren't bundled in with all the other presumably royalty free drum loops, then I'd begrudgingly take on Joel's point of view. But, of course, this isn't the case and he's rushed to conclusions, yet again exposing himself for the douche he is. It's imageline's fault if they didn't get the full licensing.

deadrat6!

I wanted to stay out of the whole Deadmau5 bashing because a lot of it was unwarranted based on his tracks, but with an attitude like he keeps showing I'm finding it increasingly difficult to retain any respect for him. He clearly is a grade A douchebag.

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