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Room Acoustics (Pictures now up)

I've recently been researching into the subject only to find that the room that I was planning on turning my Studio into is considered bad for Acoustics. Hopefully yous can give me some advice here...

Anyway, I know that Larger rooms are better, but my room is only 12 x 9, it's not exactly a "square" which is a plus I guess. Half of my ceiling is flat, but the other half is very irregular with slopes and beams etc, would this be a good thing? Also, is it true "the more objects in the room the better"? I'll hopefully post some pictures up within the next few days, it's hard to explain the shape of the ceiling.

Thanks in advance!

hey look i dont have a degree in acoustics, but im guessing irregular shapes are wanted, but what you dont want is the side reflections coming at different times from side walls that can stuff things up with balance i guess. just check out certain types of rooms design are good.

yeah bascially you dont want any convergences within your room. if there are try treating it. but really when talking room modes you only worry about up tp 300hz i think?

just keep reading mate, heaps helpful stuff out there.
anyone else got some tips?

If you can, get some acoustic panels. If you can't try to fill your walls with something else, thick cloth is good for midhigh-high frequency absorption, which I would recommend for side walls (and top back). Heavy couch or a bookself would be good on your back wall for lower frequecy absorption, pay attention to the back corners especially.

There are a lot of threads and websites on the subject. Search for "acoustic treatment".

Thanks folks, appreciate it. I'll get some photos up tonight or tomorrow hopefully to give yous a more clear idea of what I mean. I'll do some more research!

quote:

Originally posted by neverforget Thanks folks, appreciate it. I'll get some photos up tonight or tomorrow hopefully to give yous a more clear idea of what I mean. I'll do some more research!

I studied acoustics and have outfitted a few studios but if you can, include a floorplan, just something very simple done in like MSpaint. This will help greatly with deciding a listening position, speaker placement, treatment placement, etc.

Need to also know a few more things:

1, What are you using the room for? (composing, mixing, recording, all of these, a combination of these?)
2, What are the materials of the room? (drywall, brick, breezeblock etc.)
3, What is the floor? (wood, concrete, carpet, rugs etc.)
4, What is the ceiling (suspended, beams, flat, cottage cheese etc.)
5, what furniture or other items will be in there? (a sofa, just studio equipment, storage boxes etc.)
6, is it a basement, ground floor, or upper floor?
7, Are there many windows?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN I studied acoustics and have outfitted a few studios but if you can, include a floorplan, just something very simple done in like MSpaint. This will help greatly with deciding a listening position, speaker placement, treatment placement, etc. Need to also know a few more things: 1, What are you using the room for? (composing, mixing, recording, all of these, a combination of these?) 2, What are the materials of the room? (drywall, brick, breezeblock etc.) 3, What is the floor? (wood, concrete, carpet, rugs etc.) 4, What is the ceiling (suspended, beams, flat, cottage cheese etc.) 5, what furniture or other items will be in there? (a sofa, just studio equipment, storage boxes etc.) 6, is it a basement, ground floor, or upper floor? 7, Are there many windows?

Thank you very much, that would be absolutely great if you could help. I'll actually get some pictures posted up within the next 15 hours and answer all the questions, I don't have enough time at the moment unfortunately. Thanks again

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN 1, What are you using the room for? (composing, mixing, recording, all of these, a combination of these?) 2, What are the materials of the room? (drywall, brick, breezeblock etc.) 3, What is the floor? (wood, concrete, carpet, rugs etc.) 4, What is the ceiling (suspended, beams, flat, cottage cheese etc.) 5, what furniture or other items will be in there? (a sofa, just studio equipment, storage boxes etc.) 6, is it a basement, ground floor, or upper floor? 7, Are there many windows?

1.All of these.
2.Brick and Plasterboard for the ceiling.
3.Carpet
4.(Posted pics)
5.Bed, wardrobe, 2 desks, bookcase, drawers.
6.Top floor (3rd Floor)
7. One window, I'm also on a main road which causes noise problems

Anyway, heres some pictures which should help:

Back Wall:


Front Wall:


Window Side:


Other Side:


Various Celing pictures:

Good job, this helps a lot.

First the good news:

Brick walls - good because they don't resonate like some cheap drywall does with low frequencies.

Carpets - great news, soaks up noise and gives heavy resistance to reflections, which can be horrible with wood or concrete (unless treated/suspended etc.)

Furniture - Not a lot of furniture and what you do have doesn't have things like large glass surfaces, and is made of porous materials such as wood.

Ceilings - cuts both ways......if the room is setup properly it could actually be bonus that they are unusual (can help with dispersion and standing waves).

3rd floor - not better than other floors but glad it's not a basement because usually they have all sorts of acoustic issues.

Only one window.

Bad News:

Brick walls can be harsh sounding in terms of reflections of high frequencies so you have to make sure that you treat the room right to avoid/cancel this problem

Ceilings - cuts both ways.....this could give unwanted reflections and it's going to be taking an educated guess as where you should set up your listening position and then some trial and error, combined with the right room treatment.

Window on a main road. Is this double glazed or single pane? Also, venetian blinds are possibly the worst form of window covering - the resonate at varying frequencies (many different sometimes) and reflect like shit and have virtually no absorbtion. You're going to need to think about curtains or a roll down if you want to get serious. The best are thick, heavy curtains that will slightly overlap in the middle, made of something like velvet or cord. Also the rail to support them need to be close to the wall so there's not too much of a gap along the top or sides when pulled shut.

ROOM SETUP:

The most important thing is the listening position. Get this wrong and everything else suffers. This room is more going to be a composing and mixing (right?) than anything else so accurately being able to hear what you're doing is going to be the most crucial thing.

My thinking as of this stage, with this information, is that you will have to have the listening position either facing the window (lets call that the "door wall") or facing the door wall (call that the "window wall"). The reason for this is if you have the speakers set up pointing to or from either of the other walls (side walls) then the ceiling will cause havoc on one side of the sound source, and there will be no easy fix. So, as the room is nearly uniform from front to back (window to door) it will be easier to have the position on one of these sides as you then only have to (mainly) worry about reflections and acoustics from the other wall (not the ceiling coming in play etc.).

My thoughts were to have the listing position in front of the window, my reasoning being that if you have it against the door wall, sound will come from the speakers, hit the ceiling, be reflected down on to the back of your head, which will really screw accurate listening, and totally mess up frequencies. So if you have the speakers in front of the window, the sound will eminate in straight lines from the speakers not reflecting off the ceiling above them at obtuse angles.

but...this means you would have to move the bed and my suggestion is to put it against the wall next to the wardrobe? (as it won't fit on the other wall because of the cut out bit with the black shelves).

Please don;t start moving shit around yet! I need you to do something else:

Walk around the room doing single loudish claps, clicks with your mouth and higher pitched "oh" sounds. Go to various places in the room, facing different direction for each place and listen where you get a nasty reflection or secondary sound. Then get a chair move it around to similar spots and do the same. My guess is that around the middle of the room, facing the window at seat height will be least harsh and most neutral.

Please let me know what happens and then I can help further.....

wait. do you actually sleep in that bed?

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0729 wait. do you actually sleep in that bed?

nothing wrong with dwarfs?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Good job, this helps a lot. First the good news: Brick walls - good because they don't resonate like some cheap drywall does with low frequencies. Carpets - great news, soaks up noise and gives heavy resistance to reflections, which can be horrible with wood or concrete (unless treated/suspended etc.) Furniture - Not a lot of furniture and what you do have doesn't have things like large glass surfaces, and is made of porous materials such as wood. Ceilings - cuts both ways......if the room is setup properly it could actually be bonus that they are unusual (can help with dispersion and standing waves). 3rd floor - not better than other floors but glad it's not a basement because usually they have all sorts of acoustic issues. Only one window. Bad News: Brick walls can be harsh sounding in terms of reflections of high frequencies so you have to make sure that you treat the room right to avoid/cancel this problem Ceilings - cuts both ways.....this could give unwanted reflections and it's going to be taking an educated guess as where you should set up your listening position and then some trial and error, combined with the right room treatment. Window on a main road. Is this double glazed or single pane? Also, venetian blinds are possibly the worst form of window covering - the resonate at varying frequencies (many different sometimes) and reflect like shit and have virtually no absorbtion. You're going to need to think about curtains or a roll down if you want to get serious. The best are thick, heavy curtains that will slightly overlap in the middle, made of something like velvet or cord. Also the rail to support them need to be close to the wall so there's not too much of a gap along the top or sides when pulled shut. ROOM SETUP: The most important thing is the listening position. Get this wrong and everything else suffers. This room is more going to be a composing and mixing (right?) than anything else so accurately being able to hear what you're doing is going to be the most crucial thing. My thinking as of this stage, with this information, is that you will have to have the listening position either facing the window (lets call that the "door wall") or facing the door wall (call that the "window wall"). The reason for this is if you have the speakers set up pointing to or from either of the other walls (side walls) then the ceiling will cause havoc on one side of the sound source, and there will be no easy fix. So, as the room is nearly uniform from front to back (window to door) it will be easier to have the position on one of these sides as you then only have to (mainly) worry about reflections and acoustics from the other wall (not the ceiling coming in play etc.). My thoughts were to have the listing position in front of the window, my reasoning being that if you have it against the door wall, sound will come from the speakers, hit the ceiling, be reflected down on to the back of your head, which will really screw accurate listening, and totally mess up frequencies. So if you have the speakers in front of the window, the sound will eminate in straight lines from the speakers not reflecting off the ceiling above them at obtuse angles. but...this means you would have to move the bed and my suggestion is to put it against the wall next to the wardrobe? (as it won't fit on the other wall because of the cut out bit with the black shelves). Please don;t start moving shit around yet! I need you to do something else: Walk around the room doing single loudish claps, clicks with your mouth and higher pitched "oh" sounds. Go to various places in the room, facing different direction for each place and listen where you get a nasty reflection or secondary sound. Then get a chair move it around to similar spots and do the same. My guess is that around the middle of the room, facing the window at seat height will be least harsh and most neutral. Please let me know what happens and then I can help further.....

Rann, thank you so much, I couldn't of asked for anything better. I really appreciate it dude. I will let you know tomorrow how the last part goes. My neighbours will be asleep now, so i'll wait until tomorrow. Again, thanks a bunch

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0729 wait. do you actually sleep in that bed?

Yeah haha, but the angle I took the picture at made it look a lot smaller. I just about fit in it though and I'm around 6,1

quote:

Originally posted by neverforget Rann, thank you so much, I couldn't of asked for anything better. I really appreciate it dude. I will let you know tomorrow how the last part goes. My neighbours will be asleep now, so i'll wait until tomorrow. Again, thanks a bunch

No problem! Lets sort it tomorrow......

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Walk around the room doing single loudish claps, clicks with your mouth and higher pitched "oh" sounds. Go to various places in the room, facing different direction for each place and listen where you get a nasty reflection or secondary sound. Then get a chair move it around to similar spots and do the same. My guess is that around the middle of the room, facing the window at seat height will be least harsh and most neutral. Please let me know what happens and then I can help further.....

Sorry I'm a day late! Was very busy yesterday and totally forgot

Anyway, I tend to get secondary noise coming from in and around the corners of each wall. These slightly lessen when I'm on a chair. In the middle of the room facing away from the window, I think I can hear a very, very slight reflection, but I also get the same when facing the window. Although I think your right, facing the window seems to be the best place. I personally would've preferred facing the wall away from the window, as I'm on a main road and facing the opposite way might rid some noise...Anyway, I will leave it up to you

Hope this helps!

quote:

Originally posted by neverforget Sorry I'm a day late! Was very busy yesterday and totally forgot Anyway, I tend to get secondary noise coming from in and around the corners of each wall. These slightly lessen when I'm on a chair. In the middle of the room facing away from the window, I think I can hear a very, very slight reflection, but I also get the same when facing the window. Although I think your right, facing the window seems to be the best place. I personally would've preferred facing the wall away from the window, as I'm on a main road and facing the opposite way might rid some noise...Anyway, I will leave it up to you Hope this helps!

Good, that's what I was hoping for. Don't worry about facing the window too much. Get some good thick curtains and that will very much reduce the external noise. I also think that the disadvantage of noise from the street, is outweighed by the disadvantage of having those secondary reflections pointed at the back of your head if you face the wall. So it's the lesser of the evils, and much easier to treat against.

The next stage will be to set up your equipment against the window wall, moving the bed to the wall with the wardrobe.

THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR IS YOUR LISTENING POSITION - everyhting else is just secondary and is treated as such to support the this position. I don't know know how much you know about speaker placement but I'll start from scratch:

You want to be setup so the speakers and you form an equilateral triangle, like so: (CLICK ON LINK)

http://files.dahnielson.com/2008/03...acement_top.png

The speakers nee to be at head height so when you turn your head to face each one, it is flat "looking at you" and not pointed up or down. If you have them on stands, great - if not you need to decouple them from the table, as this affects frequency response and correct reproduction of sound. The easiest way to decouple them is with auralex speakerdudes. They can be picked up only $40 and make a massive difference to monitoring quality




I am assuming you have at least semi decent/entry level monitors (not just hifi or PC speakers etc.) - if you don't the don't bother with the speaker dudes.

After you have your kit setup, then comes room treatment and this can be guessed just by looking at the room, but is better done when when your kit is set up so you can test placement of tiles or rugs (on walls) etc. My guess is that you'll need to hang something directly behind you, on the door wall, probably a large rug would do it or large-ish general (broad frequency) acoustic tiles.

You actually don't have to worry about that much with this room now - the floor will be fine, the curtains will sort out the window, then a small treatment issue with the wall behind you and the rest is just minor adjustments for any problem spots.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Good, that's what I was hoping for. Don't worry about facing the window too much. Get some good thick curtains and that will very much reduce the external noise. I also think that the disadvantage of noise from the street, is outweighed by the disadvantage of having those secondary reflections pointed at the back of your head if you face the wall. So it's the lesser of the evils, and much easier to treat against. The next stage will be to set up your equipment against the window wall, moving the bed to the wall with the wardrobe. THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR IS YOUR LISTENING POSITION - everyhting else is just secondary and is treated as such to support the this position. I don't know know how much you know about speaker placement but I'll start from scratch: You want to be setup so the speakers and you form an equilateral triangle, like so: (CLICK ON LINK) http://files.dahnielson.com/2008/03...acement_top.png The speakers nee to be at head height so when you turn your head to face each one, it is flat "looking at you" and not pointed up or down. If you have them on stands, great - if not you need to decouple them from the table, as this affects frequency response and correct reproduction of sound. The easiest way to decouple them is with auralex speakerdudes. They can be picked up only $40 and make a massive difference to monitoring quality I am assuming you have at least semi decent/entry level monitors (not just hifi or PC speakers etc.) - if you don't the don't bother with the speaker dudes. After you have your kit setup, then comes room treatment and this can be guessed just by looking at the room, but is better done when when your kit is set up so you can test placement of tiles or rugs (on walls) etc. My guess is that you'll need to hang something directly behind you, on the door wall, probably a large rug would do it or large-ish general (broad frequency) acoustic tiles. You actually don't have to worry about that much with this room now - the floor will be fine, the curtains will sort out the window, then a small treatment issue with the wall behind you and the rest is just minor adjustments for any problem spots.

Great advice, definitely the best I've been given. Thanks a million man, I really do appreciate it! At the moment I'm still saving for some things, I'll be getting a pair of HS 80m's, so I'll look into those speakerdudes I'll let you know how things go, could be a while though.

Thanks for taking the time to help out

quote:

Originally posted by neverforget Great advice, definitely the best I've been given. Thanks a million man, I really do appreciate it! At the moment I'm still saving for some things, I'll be getting a pair of HS 80m's, so I'll look into those speakerdudes I'll let you know how things go, could be a while though. Thanks for taking the time to help out

No worries! The HS80's are great and the speakerdudes will be a good compliment to them. Just PM me or bring this thread back to life when you're ready.....good luck!!!

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN No worries! The HS80's are great and the speakerdudes will be a good compliment to them. Just PM me or bring this thread back to life when you're ready.....good luck!!!

Will do! Cheers again

Hi Rann,

Was wondering if you could give me some advice for my room, ive included all i think you need, i need some advise on placement of desk and speakers. also on what acoustic treatment will work best and where to put it.

1. What are you using the room for? Composing & mixing, the room untreated is causing mixing issues.

2, What are the materials of the room? Brick and plaster and also plasterboard and plaster.

3, What is the floor? Carpet

4, What is the ceiling? Flat plasterboard and plaster.

5, what furniture or other items will be in there? Just studio equipment.

6, is it a basement, ground floor, or upper floor? 1st floor

7, Are there many windows? 1 window

I will get the measurements of the room for you and draw you a small plan so you can get more idea.

this is where i was looking to get my acoustic foam from and also some bass traps, would you mind having a look for me and seeing what types are suitable for the room.

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Advanced-A...2QQftidZ2QQtZkm

Many thanks if you can give some of your knowledge and time.

How do upload a pic of my room plan? i drew it in word how do i get it as a pic on my reply?

Hey Mark, no problem - need a bit more info though.

images/photos can be uploaded to file servers such as imageshack or photobucket, then just insert the link using the IMG button when you post the reply.

As for a flooplan, that would be very useful but some photos of the walls an one of the ceiling would help too.

If you're just composing and mixing it makes it a fair bit easier - you will be mainly treating the room so that you can hear the sound more accurately. This will obviously effect everything from your workflow to you comfort level to fatigue time. I just need to know some other details....

When you say you're having mixdown problems, what exactly are you having trouble with?

What speakers do you have? Again, What stands do you have?

Do you need to just treat the room for your benefit, or to soundproof your elderly neighbours from that "god awful techno music"?

As for that shop, doesn't seem too bad but not the cheapest and most of their stuff looks like Auralex knock offs - they very well might perform the same way but they're not cheaper so why risk it?

The auralex stuff has had a lot of R&D so I trust their stuff and have always had good results when using it. They also make a sensible range products, so picking out the nits needed is quite easy.

Check out:

STUDIO SPARES

They have a good range and their staff aren't bad - they'll try to bump you up on what you need but just keep firm and they like to do deals, so have a good haggle with em.....We'll get to that later as there's no point contacting them until you know what you need.

Let me know......

Awsome mate ive got a bit of work to be getting on with i'll get back to u thanks for the help!!!!

Hey been a while but wanted to research a few bits and not rush into things -

Mixdown issues are alot to do with high freq bouncing around i think. irt sounds hissy in the room but when i bounce it off and play anywhere else its fine. I just think i could hear alot more of my high frq mixing and get it better if i could dampen the sound of it in the room.

I got behringer truth monitors, but am looking atm into buying dynaudio bm5as. They just sit on the table in front atm, probs need some speaker dudes.

Dont need to soundproof thats fine - i do music in the day when knowones about.

ok hers my pics and plan - hard to take the pics as its so small room.

dimensions - 2m wide door end 160cm wide speaker end 2m 20 cm long

room plan -

Heres a link for the rest of the photos - http://s563.photobucket.com/albums/ss77/markiliffe/

If you can help me out its greatly apriciated.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Good, that's what I was hoping for. Don't worry about facing the window too much. Get some good thick curtains and that will very much reduce the external noise.

You're not serious are you? Curtains won't absorb any significant noise coming from the outside. Road noise is mostly low frequencies anyways which the fabric will be useless against. Besides, absorption isn't the same as isolation.

I would try to seal the window somehow. Maybe thick MDF board fastened using screws, with weather stripping inbetween to get an airtight seal. Great sound isolation properties and very easy to remove later.

I dont need to stop outside sound coming in as its not that bad and im not recording vocals or anything, its just to cut out some of the reverb and high frequencies in the room, Curtains will dampen the sound more than if i just leave my pull down blind.

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