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Whats with the censorship on this forum?

Lira, I demand an explanation for why you closed two completely harlmess "conspiracy" threads. What is that supposed to mean? One of them to me at least was interesting, about how people take in all that media shit and support the hand-picked two guys or so, which those dont provide the good choices to the people. Why is it so evil to question the main line? Something personal?

Isn't this forum is supposed to be about sharing political stories, ideas, thoughts, and such? Freedom of speech?

There were like 20 fucking threads on one page about American elections just couple weeks ago, but you cant allow one lousy thread on brainwashing thats just so dam evident, that you even said so?

Give me a break.
If you're really concerned about "lack of space" on this forum, then how about deleting several of the threads from that spammer guy from a day ago.

Re: Whats with the censorship on this forum?

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium [COLOR=FF7F50] One of them to me at least was interesting, about how people take in all that media shit and support the hand-picked two guys or so, which those dont provide the good choices to the people. Why is it so evil to question the main line? Something personal?

how about because its fucking redundant? how many times are we meant to sit through the same 'everyone believes what the government/media tells them' spiel? there was nothing unique or interesting or compelling about that thread. just another highschool student that has worked out how to surf the internet and feels like their grammatically-poor diatribe is somehow novel. it wasn't.

Threads about actual current events and threads about the same damn thing over and over again are very different matters in my opinion. Maybe the thread shouldn't have been closed, but it should have at least been merged.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Threads about actual current events and threads about the same damn thing over and over again are very different matters in my opinion. Maybe the thread shouldn't have been closed, but it should have at least been merged.

There really was no reason to close it; I'm sure the fact it was from an "outsider" made the decision much easier to make.

Given enough time, any forum will become a constant regurgiation of past threads.

Yes, Magnetonium has a very legitimate point. I hate to do this and I'm not really telling you how to mod, but if you really want to have sense of fairness or make any sense at all... you should ban the clowns who turn those threads in to what we all loathe with their beautifully liberal use of profanity and insults... or take at least some kind of administrative action against them. This is ridiculous, and only reflects your own bias btw, or at least that's how it's coming across.

Re: Re: Whats with the censorship on this forum?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN how about because its fucking redundant? how many times are we meant to sit through the same 'everyone believes what the government/media tells them' spiel? there was nothing unique or interesting or compelling about that thread. just another highschool student that has worked out how to surf the internet and feels like their grammatically-poor diatribe is somehow novel. it wasn't.

Off you go, post something compelling for us.

Let's be honest, your writing style is mediocre at best. Just sit back down in your glass house and be nice for once.

re:Obama Will NOT Save The Country


That post brings up many, many, many valid points. How and why people na�vely pass this off as conspiracy is utter nonsense.

quote:

Originally posted by {b.s.e.} re:Obama Will NOT Save The Country That post brings up many, many, many valid points. How and why people na�vely pass this off as conspiracy is utter nonsense.

You're kidding, right? The fact that one of Obama's 25 economic advisors was a member of a secretive fraternity is proof that he's out to run the whole world into the ground?

This is one of the more extravagant examples of what Lira is talking about.

Re: Whats with the censorship on this forum?

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Lira, I demand an explanation for why you closed two completely harlmess "conspiracy" threads. What is that supposed to mean? One of them to me at least was interesting, about how people take in all that media shit and support the hand-picked two guys or so, which those dont provide the good choices to the people. Why is it so evil to question the main line? Something personal? Isn't this forum is supposed to be about sharing political stories, ideas, thoughts, and such? Freedom of speech? There were like 20 fucking threads on one page about American elections just couple weeks ago, but you cant allow one lousy thread on brainwashing thats just so dam evident, that you even said so? Give me a break. If you're really concerned about "lack of space" on this forum, then how about deleting several of the threads from that spammer guy from a day ago.

First of all, don't you think demand is too strong a word? I've never refused to talk about any of my actions as a mod, and I've always done my best to be as unbiased and open-minded as possible. If you could, therefore, pipe down a notch, I wouldn't mind. It's not like you were even involved in these incidents, to begin with.

Now, as for your concern regarding the threads I locked: One of them was simply a collage of various conspiracy theories that could hardly become a proper topic of discussion (people masturbating in coffins and Obama not being illegible because "he was born in Kenya"); the other provided little room to discussion, mentioned Nazis endlessly, and brought nothing new to the table.

You're right when you say this a place to discuss political stories, ideas, thoughts, and such and I hold freedom of speech in high regard. However, my radical tolerance seems to have hindered discussion quite a bit around here, and I think it's time to draw a line. Letting conspiracy theorists on the loose seems to have been one of the problems, and I decided to crack down on this before it gets any worse. I may be wrong, but I'm going to give it a try. If this doesn't work, I'll humbly step back and undo whatever I've done.

But, in summary:

• Don't overreact: I closed two threads due to their content in like... what? 3 years? I didn't even suspend anyone, and these actions are easily reversible;
  
  
• Cooperate: Instead of jumping on the gun, ask what my reasons are and, if you think I'm mistaken, feel free to provide ideas in order turn this forum into a better place. You failed to provide a single solution to my actions in your original post, and even brought up some really awkward arguments (how could that possibly be personal?);
  
  
• I can't please everyone: Just thought you may want to keep that in mind.

I dont give much of a fuck... but yeah statements like 'conspiracy theories will not be tolerated anymore' is like saying believe in whatever Collin Powell tells you... and Collin says 'I know where WMDs are... they are in East, West, North and South of Baghdad.'

Thanks Collin for sparing North-East, South-West and alike parts.

quote:

Originally posted by Kinezi I dont give much of a fuck... but yeah statements like 'conspiracy theories will not be tolerated anymore' is like saying believe in whatever Collin Powell tells you

Fair enough. I'm going to state more clearly my reasons from now on.

Oh the humanity!!!

For shame, Lira. For shame...........

Oh, wait:

quote:

5. TA is not exactly a "democracy": I'll try to be as democratic as possible here, but it doesn't mean you can do/say all you want. If you feel you're being treated unfairly, talk to a mod. We will help you as much as we can. But, if you think all mods are treating you unfairly, tough luck. Addendum: That means, "Nothing the mod does is ever popular with everyone, deal with it punks!" - thanks Lilith

Umm, uhh, nevermind.

Despite my sentiments with all the fucking conspiracy threads and tin foil hat wearers, everyone certainly can bring up a topic of choice to debate about and see where it goes. Note #5, however, and take it into heart.

And let's be honest, those two threads were ridiculous, and Lira was exactly right that they were going to go nowhere fast.

Masturbating in a fucking coffin? Jesus Christ, man. Really? How much fucking tin foil did you use for that hat? Good grief.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira ... Why is it that, even on a Canadian board, modded by a Brazilian and a Dane, conspiracy theorists think everyone is American? The only person that almost cared, ironically, was PKC, and he happens to be Australian. Thread closed - conspiracy threads will not be tolerated any more.

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=503078&forumid=66&s=

I think this says it all really. Yes, a label slapped on the content (and even person) by others, one they don't even identify with, and then being penalized for it. Sounds like an authoritarian mindset to me. Anyways, your reason are clear... and apparently you are the arbiter (moderating is not the same as authoritarianism, but apparently that a dissenting view as well).

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...8&forumid=66&s= I think this says it all really. Yes, a label slapped on the content (and even person) by others, one they don't even identify with, and then being penalized for it. Sounds like an authoritarian mindset to me. Anyways, your reason are clear... and apparently you are the arbiter (moderating is not the same as authoritarianism, but apparently that a dissenting view as well).

So put it in a poll then. Jesus Christ on a bike. Lira is doing a fine job (if anything, he is way too lenient), and this thread is about as ridiculous as masturbating in coffins - the subject matter of this thread you're trying to save, which, by the way, is emblematic of the declining appeal of this subforum.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov So put it in a poll then. Jesus Christ on a bike. Lira is doing a fine job (if anything, he is way too lenient), and this thread is about as ridiculous as masturbating in coffins - the subject matter of this thread you're trying to save, which, by the way, is emblematic of the declining appeal of this subforum.

Note: It's not my agreement or disagreement with the content, it's principle... one that you share I believe; open discourse and free speech . Yes, Lira normally does do a fantastic job but he's not error free, and I don't see the harm in pointing out disagreements.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov if anything, he is way too lenient

I agree with you, and this is why I'm actually surprised by the overall reaction: I hardly do anything, and I guess I learnt from Trancer-X that this may not be the best approach. So, I decided to change a few things around here and check whether there's any improvement.

I mean, I'm leaving this thread open so you guys can criticise me: If that's not believing in free speech, I don't know what it is.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Note: It's not my agreement or disagreement with the content, it's principle... one that you share I believe; open discourse and free speech . Yes, Lira normally does do a fantastic job but he's not error free, and I don't see the harm in pointing out disagreements.

well, maybe they can go have their 'open discourse' on prisonplanet, where no doubt the deeply-important policy discussions concerning masturbating in coffins can get their due attention and maybe change the world

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Originally posted by BSE Let's be honest, your writing style is mediocre at best.

you would have to be one of the worst "judges" of just about anything in the PDD. so, coming from you, this statement is quite the compliment.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN well, maybe they can go have their 'open discourse' on prisonplanet, where no doubt the deeply-important policy discussions concerning masturbating in coffins can get their due attention and maybe change the world

I've gone to that website probably even less that you have (i.e. ages ago), so keep your speculative nonsense and categorizations to yourself. Maybe if you weren't such a condescending a-hole, people might actually be able to have a discussion with you and vice-versa. I did not address you, I never even made a reference to you, not was I rude or condescending in my post, but you still felt an urge to react for reasons that are completely irrelevant. You're actually displaying the exact same behavior of conspiracy theorists I hate, broad speculative categorizations loaded with emotional negativity. Maybe you should go out more and do things you that let you appreciate life, perhaps you might get less wound up over the absurd? I'm saying that in all seriousness btw. Just as much as conspiracy theorist like propagating their world view, you are no different.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira I agree with you, and this is why I'm actually surprised by the overall reaction: I hardly do anything, and I guess I learnt from Trancer-X that this may not be the best approach. So, I decided to change a few things around here and check whether there's any improvement. I mean, I'm leaving this thread open so you guys can criticise me: If that's not believing in free speech, I don't know what it is.

Limiting speech is free speech, gotcha. I'll keep that your definition in mind when you mention it in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I've gone to that website probably even less that you have (i.e. ages ago), so keep your speculative nonsense and categorizations to yourself.

i would say we're probably on par, and i would like to point out that i specifically used "they" and not "you" in my post. i certainly wasn't suggesting that i include you in that ilk, so don't be so sensitive

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Maybe if you weren't such a condescending a-hole, people might actually be able to have a discussion with you and vice-versa.

i have lots of wonderful discussions with lots of wonderful people. me and theist alex have been having a wonderful religion chat for instance. you reap what you sow.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I did not address you, I never even made a reference to you, not was I rude or condescending in my post, but you still felt an urge to react for reasons that are completely irrelevant.

posting on a public forum means you are putting yourself out there. why does the fact that you didn't specifically address me make a difference? again, whilst i quoted you im sure as hell not attacking you, im attacking them (and yes, i think there's a fairly sizeable difference).

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z You're actually displaying the exact same behavior of conspiracy theorists I hate, broad speculative categorizations loaded with emotional negativity.

ahhhh, but no lies. therein lies the difference.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Maybe you should go out more and do things you that let you appreciate life, perhaps you might get less wound up over the absurd?

i recently got back from a holiday on the other side of australia, im playing heaps of games that i love and ive ditched the weed for a healthier lifestyle. i hardly think my pet peeve takes up more of my time than my blatant hedonistic pursuits do

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I'm saying that in all seriousness btw. Just as much as conspiracy theorist like propagating their world view, you are no different.

except that i dont lie. make mistakes, sure. but i dont lie. big fucking difference. yeah, obama was born in kenya

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i would say we're probably on par, and i would like to point out that i specifically used "they" and not "you" in my post. i certainly wasn't suggesting that i include you in that ilk, so don't be so sensitive i have lots of wonderful discussions with lots of wonderful people. me and theist alex have been having a wonderful religion chat for instance. you reap what you sow.

Ah, so I guess you've revised your opinion of me and from this point on I'll assume you do not refer to me as well, I still think it's unfair to refer to "them" in a condescending tone... but you are free to be condescending to "them." That's your choice I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN posting on a public forum means you are putting yourself out there. why does the fact that you didn't specifically address me make a difference? again, whilst i quoted you im sure as hell not attacking you, im attacking them (and yes, i think there's a fairly sizeable difference).

If I'm at a party, or any public place, I don't automatically have a right to put my nose in other people's business, despite being in a public place now do I .

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN ahhhh, but no lies. therein lies the difference.

I'm sorry PKC, but that is quite arrogant and the striking similarity I was talking about. Neither you nor the conspiracy theorist know they are right or what they believe to be true is in fact the case. A good old centrist like yourself should know that much eh ?

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i recently got back from a holiday on the other side of australia, im playing heaps of games that i love and ive ditched the weed for a healthier lifestyle. i hardly think my pet peeve takes up more of my time than my blatant hedonistic pursuits do except that i dont lie. make mistakes, sure. but i dont lie. big fucking difference. yeah, obama was born in kenya

LOL, for the record, just because I myself am not, at this point in my life anyways, a "hedonist" doesn't mean I you know what my exposure or background is. Most people try to be counter cultural, especially when they're young, or rebellious, usually quite aimlessly. I have never been comfortable or felt in place with bourgeois culture or the extreme end of nihilistic hedonistic bohemians, although I tend to have a lot more in common with the latter. Few people even know what those terms mean. Even though they have rather sexually liberal parties (you know, like orgies) and liberal drug use at them (like coke binges), I enjoy their company nonetheless as they are usually quite intelligent and are capable of processing unconventional ideas and thoughts, and no, I'm not referring to conspiracy theories here .

For the record, I don't give a shit where Obama was born or even if he's the president. I'm just relieved to have the less extreme corporate whore in office but both parties will sponsor AIPAC shills nonetheless, it's part of the unofficial job description .

EDIT: I still smoke pot though, and you should smoke more of it .

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Note: It's not my agreement or disagreement with the content, it's principle... one that you share I believe; open discourse and free speech . Yes, Lira normally does do a fantastic job but he's not error free, and I don't see the harm in pointing out disagreements.

I believe in free speech, but to a point. There's no point in discussing the same topic ad infinitum - and all of the political censorship/new world order threads basically start from the same ill-founded (and often unsubstantiated) premises and end in the same muddled "sheeple" arguments.

They're completely pointless, and I see no problem limiting the number of existing threads so that a wider variety of topics and discussions can remain on the front page.

The thing is, this forum doesn't have to practice free speech if it doesn't want to. It's a privately-owned website that Lira has been made a steward of, and it is ultimately his call (and Swamper's) as to where the limits of free speech on this domain really lie. I hardly think this is an egregious violation of anybody's rights - it's not like he's closed all the numerous pre-existing threads on the same exact topic.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Ah, so I guess you've revised your opinion of me and from this point on I'll assume you do not refer to me as well,

it has been a LONG time since i included you in that group of nutcases mate, i thought you knew that! sure, we never seem to be able to agree on anything, but (truly) your fucking intelligence and contributions to the PDD have made me re-think all kinds of things (most notably israel) and no matter what i say or do always know that underneath my vitriolic nonsense or half-understood abuse there's a healthy amount of respect, honest. i should try harder to express myself perhaps, but even when you piss me off that doesn't change my underlying appreciation for what you bring to the debate here. honest.

so, get fucked!

Yeah shaolin, you should know that those of us who detest those types of threads do so just as much due to the content of the threads and their infinite repetition as to the manner in which debate is conducted by those that bring the subject up. As you generally put some thought and consideration in your posts, you can hardly be lumped into the same category of miscreants for whom pkc and I have a mutual disdain.

That honor is reserved for the select few who insist on only contributing the same old things to threads about the new world order and government conspiracies and dodging any actual discussion there or anywhere else in the subforum.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Yeah shaolin, you should know that those of us who detest those types of threads do so just as much due to the content of the threads and their infinite repetition as to the manner in which debate is conducted by those that bring the subject up. As you generally put some thought and consideration in your posts, you can hardly be lumped into the same category of miscreants for whom pkc and I have a mutual disdain. That honor is reserved for the select few who insist on only contributing the same old things to threads about the new world order and government conspiracies and dodging any actual discussion there or anywhere else in the subforum.

Yes; what we detest should always be muffled by route of our own legislation.

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