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Posted by Waza on Dec-09-2008 20:12:

Anti-Phase

Hi All,

I've a question about anti-phase and wonder if anyone else has noticed this - ok here goes.

I have a sound which anti-phases a little - so I use a stereo imager to stop this but i've noticed that on its own i still get a little out of phase - I know i could take the phase out completely but when the kick drum comes in it does not go out of phase. does anyone know why this happens. If I play the instrument on its own it has a slight out of phase but as soon as i add the kick drum it dissapears.

so is it best to completely remove the phase on solo mode or when its all in the mix.

I was just curious.

Waza

Posted by alanzo on Dec-09-2008 20:14:

What are you doing that you have phase problems? I never even think about things like that.

Posted by Waza on Dec-09-2008 20:17:

It's just a mad percussion sound i've got going and it's going out of phase slightly. As it's panning all the time.

Posted by kadomony on Dec-09-2008 20:27:

could be waveform cancellation inside of your phasescope.

i notice this happens when i have a wide anti-phase bass note playing with a monoed bass note, the resulting image shows as somewhere between full mono and full anti-phase.

Posted by Waza on Dec-09-2008 20:34:

So would you completely take out the anti-phase in mono anyway so you don't get any cancellation.

Posted by MaxC on Dec-10-2008 03:18:

It sounds like you have your phase scope on the master bus, correct? The kick drum is probably just masking the phasiness of the other sound by virtue of its strong mono component. It's not correcting the phase issue, just hiding it on the phase scope. If you reduce the volume of the kick drum you'll probably find that the phasiness will approach the same level as it does without the kick playing. I'd also wager that if you put the scope on the phasing track instead of the master bus, the out of phase component of that sound would be the same regardless of whether the kick is playing or not.

I'm not sure what you mean by "remove the phase". Are you talking about monoing the signal? Reducing the side signal perhaps? Either way, I would just balance the mid and side signal to a level that you are comfortable with and just leave it at that. I don't really see the advantage to automating the phase coherence of a sound unless you're going for some sort of specific effect. You can try monitoring your song in mono and mixing the phasey sound to taste; then you can be secure in knowing that even if the stereo image does collapse on account of phase issues, it will still sound fine regardless.

I hope that made sense...

Posted by derail on Dec-10-2008 04:29:

Re: Anti-Phase

quote:
Originally posted by Waza
I use a stereo imager to stop this but i've noticed that on its own i still get a little out of phase

Did you notice this by listening to it or by looking at an analysis tool? As MaxC suggested, listen to the mix in mono and see what's happening to the sound as a result of the phase issues.

Analysers are fantastic tools and can alert you to issues, but they can also lead you to try to fix things which aren't issues, just to make the analyser "look right".

Posted by kitphillips on Dec-10-2008 05:04:

quote:
Originally posted by MaxC
It sounds like you have your phase scope on the master bus, correct? The kick drum is probably just masking the phasiness of the other sound by virtue of its strong mono component. It's not correcting the phase issue, just hiding it on the phase scope. If you reduce the volume of the kick drum you'll probably find that the phasiness will approach the same level as it does without the kick playing. I'd also wager that if you put the scope on the phasing track instead of the master bus, the out of phase component of that sound would be the same regardless of whether the kick is playing or not.

I'm not sure what you mean by "remove the phase". Are you talking about monoing the signal? Reducing the side signal perhaps? Either way, I would just balance the mid and side signal to a level that you are comfortable with and just leave it at that. I don't really see the advantage to automating the phase coherence of a sound unless you're going for some sort of specific effect. You can try monitoring your song in mono and mixing the phasey sound to taste; then you can be secure in knowing that even if the stereo image does collapse on account of phase issues, it will still sound fine regardless.

I hope that made sense...

+1

Posted by Waza on Dec-10-2008 18:04:

Yes i have the phase scope on the master, So basically if it sounds good in mono then it will be ok.