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-- This is why unions are gay aka at least there will be no bailout.
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This is why unions are gay aka at least there will be no bailout.

Hilarious...they would rather lose their jobs than cut wages.

quote:

Dec 11, 2008 WASHINGTON�A $14 billion (U.S.) emergency bailout for U.S. automakers collapsed in the Senate Thursday night after the United Auto Workers refused to accede to Republican demands for swift wage cuts. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said he was "terribly disappointed" about the demise of an emerging bipartisan deal to rescue Detroit's Big Three. He spoke shortly after Republicans left a closed-door meeting where they balked at giving the automakers federal aid unless their powerful union agreed to slash wages next year to bring them into line with those of Japanese carmakers. Republican Sen. George V. Voinovich of Ohio, a strong bailout supporter, said the UAW was willing to make the cuts � but not until 2011. Reid was working to set a swift test vote on the measure Thursday night, but it was just a formality. The bill was virtually certain to fail to reach the 60-vote threshold it would need to clear to advance. Reid called the bill's collapse "a loss for the country,'' adding "I dread looking at Wall Street tomorrow. It's not going to be a pleasant sight.'' The implosion followed an unprecedented marathon set of talks at the Capitol among labour, the auto industry and lawmakers who bargained into the night in efforts to salvage the auto bailout at a time of soaring job losses and widespread economic turmoil. "In the midst of already deep and troubling economic times, we are about to add to that by walking away," said Sen. Chris Dodd, the Banking Committee chair who led negotiations on the package. Sen. Bob Corker of Tennessee, the GOP point man in the talks, said the two sides had been tantalizingly close to a deal, but the UAW's refusal to agree to wage concessions by a specific date in 2009 kept them apart. The autoworkers' contract doesn't expire until 2011.

source
http://www.wheels.ca/reviews/article/485635

no bailout is a good thing imo, but the reason for no bailout is just an example of what is wrong with the american unionized worker.

i hate unions...have fun being unemployed.

ya thats why uts good on the government for calling their bluff.

Everyone has a hand out to the government these days. fuck em let them sink. not like they actually will.

Ypou think thyre going to let a century old company like that tank? theyre just looking for handouts.

they should let them tank...no one wants american cars...not even americans.

quote:

Originally posted by elFreak they should let them tank...no one wants american cars...not even americans.

I agree completely.

The UAW refuses to accept pay cuts before 2011, and because of that, they are all going to lose their jobs by then. Because of their "sacrifice" we will all have to buy Toyota and Honda sooner or later. Maybe this massive job loss will get the companies to restructure and stop acting like a bunch of pompous assholes. I see why Obama is supporting the bailout, because he doesn't want any jobs to be lost while the economy is tanking, hoping that once he takes office and starts demanding more emphasis on alternative energy and job creation, the economy can get back on its feet. The bailout would be ideal for the UAW, but the senseless spending has got to stop. These Auto Industries got themselves into this mess, and they need to get themselves out.

because theyre overpriced, pieces of shit.
when the industry went one way the american car manufacturers were too stupid to follow suit. fuck em.

I can do without an escalade

the unions greed is responsible for a good part of the problems with the big 3. I never thought they were stupid enough to choose unemployment for all their members over reduced wages.

this is why I completely oppose the auto bailout. the bailout is basically an investment by taxpayers in those companies. this is only a good investment if the automakers restructure to become viable companies. neither the unions or the automakers are really willing to accept what the new versions of these companies will look like, they just want free government money and will try to continue the status quo as much as possible. the more taxpayer money they get, the harder it will be for us to write them off in the future, they know this.

restructuring the big 3 into viable companies means Chrysler is gone, a much smaller and leaner GM, and cuts in size and models offered at Ford as well, along with an immediate change to the UAW contract to bring wages and benefits in line with foreign automakers operating in the US. It also means significant decreases in the benefits paid to current and future UAW retirees. no matter what the UAW says it wants to avoid these changes at all costs, thankfully someone is calling their bluff.

the $15-40 billion should be spent aiding and retraining autoworkers for other jobs and retooling suppier factories to make other products

the best thing about the big 3 collapsing would be the end of the UAW

quote:

Originally posted by elFreak they should let them tank...no one wants american cars...not even americans.

Quoted for troof! Except there is high demand for the 2009 Ford Fiesta

aaaaand now the DOW is in freefall again.

Although not bailing out the american auto industry may have some unfortunate externalities, I agree.

Ch. 11 is not the end of the world, and it will get them out from underneath the burden of their union contracts which make them unable to compete with foreign mfgrs while facilitating a much needed change in management.

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter Although not bailing out the american auto industry may have some unfortunate externalities, I agree. Ch. 11 is not the end of the world, and it will get them out from underneath the burden of their union contracts which make them unable to compete with foreign mfgrs while facilitating a much needed change in management.

China is going to come in and buy up all the American companies. Were all soon to be owned by them anyway. Might want to start picking up the language at this point. Hostile country takeover

CHina is in pretty bad shape too right now. COnsidering all their money was invested in the states lol

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter Although not bailing out the american auto industry may have some unfortunate externalities, I agree. Ch. 11 is not the end of the world, and it will get them out from underneath the burden of their union contracts which make them unable to compete with foreign mfgrs while facilitating a much needed change in management.

the best thing about Ch 11 is they have to restructure to become viable or be liquidated. A government bailout does not come with this requirement no matter what anyone says.

quote:

Originally posted by Vivid Boy CHina is in pretty bad shape too right now. COnsidering all their money was invested in the states lol

good point, though they still are not nearly as bad as we are. They have been buying up a lot of land over here as well. Hell they own quite a bit of New York.

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter Although not bailing out the american auto industry may have some unfortunate externalities, I agree. Ch. 11 is not the end of the world, and it will get them out from underneath the burden of their union contracts which make them unable to compete with foreign mfgrs while facilitating a much needed change in management.

Many auto part suppliers actually go through bankruptcy for the same reason and still operate (I work with some of them on the tax side). It unconscionable that bondholders, equityholders, management, and taxpayer's are bearing huge burdens in this deal but the union will not budge. I say we let chrysler fall so the companies know the government isn't playing games, and hopefully the union changes its stance when 50,000 UAW workers are unemployed as a result. I wonder if UAW workers actually support the union leadership.

quote:

Originally posted by XaNaX the unions greed is responsible for a good part of the problems with the big 3. I never thought they were stupid enough to choose unemployment for all their members over reduced wages. rite them off in the future, they know this.

Ya i guess their flexing of muscles didnt prove effective and now they will pay for it. I seriously doubt they will though, and i imagine the government will pass something at the begining of next year.

quote:

Originally posted by Vivid Boy CHina is in pretty bad shape too right now. COnsidering all their money was invested in the states lol

China makes America's social security crisis look like fun and games.

Think about it - the one child policy has been in effect for nearly a generation - it succeeded in curbing growth rates, but in the next twenty years they're going to see a tremendous spike in retirees - their economy simply won't be able to support it.





India is who the US should be watching out for...

quote:

Originally posted by XaNaX the best thing about the big 3 collapsing would be the end of the UAW

agreed

No one is right. Everyone is wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Jean-Fran�ois No one is right. Everyone is wrong.

what a well thought out post.

quote:

Originally posted by Jean-Fran�ois No one is right. Everyone is wrong.

Dec 2008 join date, so whose douchebag alt are you?

I just heard that there are over 700,000 people that no longer work for these failing companies that are still earning wages (from past union deals). One guy was saying how he has made more in retirement wages than he did while he was actually working. How fucked up is that? No wonder it's falling apart. BMW is doing great in non-unionized South Carolina.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov China makes America's social security crisis look like fun and games. Think about it - the one child policy has been in effect for nearly a generation - it succeeded in curbing growth rates, but in the next twenty years they're going to see a tremendous spike in retirees - their economy simply won't be able to support it. India is who the US should be watching out for...

Let's assume india were to displace China. That would be good for the US because the US has arms deals and nuclear accords with India. It seems that India is america's second biggest ally in asia (first being Japan). Nevertheless, i'm not convinced that having a youthful population means much. That is only relevant if they can all find jobs that can sustain the retirement benefits of the aging population. Since it seems every indian with an advanced degree rides the path train into NYC to work in the IT department of Goldman, Merryl, and other banks, I think India is having a difficult time retaining its best talents.

I really don't see the US Gov't NOT bailing the big 3 out unfortunately. If we don't it's a 1930's depression for sure

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss I just heard that there are over 700,000 people that no longer work for these failing companies that are still earning wages (from past union deals). One guy was saying how he has made more in retirement wages than he did while he was actually working. How fucked up is that? No wonder it's falling apart. BMW is doing great in non-unionized South Carolina.

Yeah, i think unions have survived past their utility since the job market today is much more flexible than it was previously. If factory workers don't like market wages they hone their skill set to increase their value or they should get advanced degrees. They should be compensated for the value they add to the business not for the amount of coersion they can impose on the company. To keep american manufacturing viable, manufacturers should be able to pay market wages. If someone is willing to do the same job for $15 an hour, why should these companies be paying $50 an hour? It's a shame these companies locked themselves into these irresponsible contracts. Unfortunately, when labor strikes it really hurts.

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 Yeah, i think unions have survived past their utility since the job market today is much more flexible than it was previously. If factory workers don't like market wages they hone their skill set to increase their value or they should get advanced degrees. They should be compensated for the value they add to the business not for the amount of coersion they can impose on the company. To keep american manufacturing viable, manufacturers should be able to pay market wages. If someone is willing to do the same job for $15 an hour, why should these companies be paying $50 an hour?

Bingo. Your other posts are right on the money too

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