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Putin: by law, "Dissent" = Treason now

Maybe things aren't so bad here in the U.S. after all? Putin and his puppet Medvedev have pushed through a new definition of treason that will include any information given to non-governmental organizations (NGOs) that Moscow doesn't like, setting the stage for a new tyranny by the former KGB master. Gulag time!:

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Under Soviet dictator Josef Stalin, people who fraternized with foreigners or criticized the Kremlin were "enemies of the people" and sent to the gulag. Now there's new legislation backed by Vladimir Putin's government that human rights activists say could throw Russia back to the days of the Great Terror. The legislation, outspoken government critic and rights activist Lev Ponomaryov charged Wednesday, creates "a base for a totalitarian state." Government supporters and Kremlin-allied lawmakers said the bill- submitted to the Kremlin-friendly parliament last week- will tighten up current law. Supporters say prosecutors often have trouble gaining convictions because of ambiguities in the definition of state treason. The bill would add non-governmental organizations based anywhere in the world that have an office in Russia to the list of banned recipients of state secrets. The government has repeatedly accused foreign spy agencies of using NGOs as a cover to foment dissent.

Uhh, isn't the Red Cross an NGO? Also, election observers work for NGOs.... Let's say Russia holds an election and Russians give information to election observers that the government has corrupted the voting process. That's a ticket to the gulag for anyone caught doing it, and guess what? They won�t even get a jury trial:

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In a separate development Wednesday, Russia's upper house of parliament passed legislation that would end jury trials for those facing charges of terrorism and treason. Instead, they would face a panel of judges.

Is the AP serious? Wow what a coincidence "Separate development" my ass!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081217...sia_treason_law

Yeah, Russia is in deep shit right now. The sunny times are over, people are cut off from the credit, they are loosing their jobs. Social security and job protection is a big big joke.

The ruling elite is afraid people come to streets and protest. That's why they make/change the laws like the one above.

It's really stupid situation, no one have cared about the future while they enjoyed the prosperity of oil revenues.

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Originally posted by otec Yeah, Russia is in deep shit right now. The sunny times are over, people are cut off from the credit, they are loosing their jobs. Social security and job protection is a big big joke. The ruling elite is afraid people come to streets and protest. That's why they make/change the laws like the one above. It's really stupid situation, no one have cared about the future while they enjoyed the prosperity of oil revenues.

I read something the other day that said about 75% of Russians (in Russia) believe their economy is in great shape. Newspapers aren't allowed to use words like "recesson", "depression" and "economic downturn" at the request of the Kremlin apparantly. My wife's brother called her the other day asking how we are able to survive over here and if we would be living in the street soon (based on what he has been reading over there). lol.

I didn't know people were cut off from credit over there... I guess this will start to open peoples' eyes to the truth. What do you think man... is Russia caught in a cycle that's heading back to Stalinistic times?

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Originally posted by The17sss I read something the other day that said about 75% of Russians (in Russia) believe their economy is in great shape. Newspapers aren't allowed to use words like "recesson", "depression" and "economic downturn" at the request of the Kremlin apparantly. My wife's brother called her the other day asking how we are able to survive over here and if we would be living in the street soon (based on what he has been reading over there). lol.

That's a total rubbish. Read Russian newspapers before putting such accusations.

www.gazeta.ru
www.kommersant.ru
www.vedomosti.ru

I see the aboved quoted words like twice or even more in one sentence.

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Originally posted by The17sss I didn't know people were cut off from credit over there... I guess this will start to open peoples' eyes to the truth. What do you think man... is Russia caught in a cycle that's heading back to Stalinistic times?

They are not cut, I've just exacerbated here, but who wants to take a loan with 20-30% rent?

Just check loan/mortgage conditions by a few big banks there.

http://www.citibank.ru/
http://unicredit.ru/

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Originally posted by otec That's a total rubbish. Read Russian newspapers before putting such accusations. www.gazeta.ru www.kommersant.ru www.vedomosti.ru I see the aboved quoted words like twice or even more in one sentence.

I'm not personally making the accusaions, I'm just telling you about what I read from a publication here (or maybe a UK outlet). I haven't read any Russian newspapers and I wasn't qualifying that statement.

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Originally posted by The17sss I'm not personally making the accusaions, I'm just telling you about what I read from a publication here (or maybe a UK outlet). I haven't read any Russian newspapers and I wasn't qualifying that statement.

Seriously man, I'm not surprised. It's like talking about the US internal politics based on the material from atimes.com

Just read Russian sources first, then make such silly threads.

Is this really a thread criticising Russia for prosecuting people who pass on state secrets?

What, is that legal in America or something?!

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Originally posted by George Smiley Is this really a thread criticising Russia for prosecuting people who pass on state secrets? What, is that legal in America or something?!

Well, actually the BIGGEST downside and worry of this law is that the government can easily apply it to the dissident movements like "Other Russia". But once again, if Kremlin really wanted to get rid of such movements they would do it long time ago.

Not to say not all NGOs do something useful for Russia and it's people. And anyway, can anyone say how many of these they have in the US or say Britain?

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Originally posted by otec Seriously man, I'm not surprised. It's like talking about the US internal politics based on the material from atimes.com Just read Russian sources first, then make such silly threads.

look, that side note about certain words to be used or not used in Russian publications is besides the point. The thread is about Russia pushing legislation that will allow them to treat dissent (in the Kremlin's definition) as treason and deny the accused jury trials.... and the effects that could have on the election process and in regard to NGO's. Surely a Russian like yourself wouldn't consider that silly.

To be honest, American system doesnt treat terrorists and those who committed treason any better than Russia does. Yeah, like Americans appoint jury to trial for those who got caught passing state secrets, yeah right!

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Originally posted by The17sss Putin and his puppet Medvedev

Ugh, for the last friggin time, they are BEST friends - he aint no puppet. Medvedev and Putin (and some other persons in the "inner circle") have been friends for many years! This just illustrates how little you guys know about Russia ...

In Russia, there are more serious problems with traitors and terrorists. Dont forget the Caucasus conflicts and constant occasions when government/military officials take bribes for everything from state secrets to passing merchandise through borders.

On a serious point - the real story that should be discussed instead is how poorly Russian police have responded to Vladivostok protests over increased tarrifs on foreign automobiles. They weren't nice and friendly, thats for sure. I wasn't impressed. Dont worry - Putin didnt order the brute force - its a problem that runs in Russian mentality, for generations.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7794560.stm

It's a shame.

Medvedev is actually a Putin's puppet. Everyone knows that.

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Originally posted by otec Medvedev is actually a Putin's puppet. Everyone knows that.

well said, otec... well said.

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Originally posted by otec Medvedev is actually a Putin's puppet. Everyone knows that.

obviously the other Russian doesn't. Anyways Russia has always been a shithole.

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Originally posted by guerra-monstru obviously the other Russian doesn't. Anyways Russia has always been a shithole.

yeah, true. but still the sexiest girls and smartest brains on this planet live there.

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Originally posted by guerra-monstru obviously the other Russian doesn't. Anyways Russia has always been a shithole.

I wouldn't go that far. You obviously havent been to countries like Zimbabwe or Pakistan. And many others in between.

And besides - your view is very biased. We all know fully well why you have a grudge against Russia.

I don't.... can you fill me in? I thought otec was pro-russia.

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Originally posted by The17sss I don't.... can you fill me in? I thought otec was pro-russia.

I try to be pro-unbiased.

There are thousands things going in wrong in Russia or the US. I just don't like when people blaming a particular country without giving a damn to study the issue in more details.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I wouldn't go that far. You obviously havent been to countries like Zimbabwe or Pakistan. And many others in between. And besides - your view is very biased. We all know fully well why you have a grudge against Russia.

Tell me, why I don't Mr. fucking-puppet Medvedev protecting his statment about the Constitutional State in this little movie?

what is that video all about?

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I wouldn't go that far. You obviously havent been to countries like Zimbabwe or Pakistan. And many others in between. And besides - your view is very biased. We all know fully well why you have a grudge against Russia.

Was it the hookers i used or something?

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Originally posted by otec Tell me, why I don't Mr. fucking-puppet Medvedev protecting his statment about the Constitutional State in this little movie?

Otec, you are a very confusing individual. Often enough you provide cannon fodder for the anti-Russian sentiment on this forum. I simply cannot even support you on most Russian discussions because we have different approach and views. I look at Russia much differently than you do. Oh, and I wasnt even referring to you in the paragraph you quoted.

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Originally posted by The17sss what is that video all about?

This video is from protests in Vladivostok against increase in import car tarrifs by the Kremlin.

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Moscow riot police flown in to smash protests against car tarrifs in Vladivostok Riot police flown in from Moscow clubbed, kicked and arrested dozens of people in Russia�s Far East yesterday as hundreds across the country demonstrated against an increase in car import tariffs. Officers held around 200 people � including several reporters � as up to 1,000 demonstrators protested for a second day running in Vladivostok. About 200 others rallied in Moscow in support. Inflation, rising unemployment and a slide in the rouble have driven discontent and the Kremlin fears the deteriorating economic situation could lead to public unrest. With domestic production suffering, the Government announced this month higher tariffs on imported cars. Demonstrations have been most vehement in Vladivostok, Russia�s largest Pacific port, through which nearly all cars from Japan are imported. Hundreds rallied in the city on Saturday for the second weekend in a row. But authorities refused to authorise the demonstration and hundreds of riot police blocked off the city square where it was planned. Soon after, several hundred people gathered on Vladivostok�s main square � not the planned site of the demonstration. Waiting riot police ordered them to disperse, saying the gathering was illegal. The group refused and began singing and dancing around a traditional Russian New Year�s tree on the square. Police, some shipped in from Moscow � 5,750 miles to the west � began hauling men and women into waiting vans as onlookers chanted �Fascists!� and �Shame! Shame!� Officers beat several people with truncheons, threw them to the ground and kicked them. Several parents were detained as their children watched. �Riot police encircled the group ... even those just passing by, and they started taking people away without any sort of comment,� said Olga Nikolaevna, a 62-year-old retiree who witnessed the incident. Ten journalists were detained by police, who demanded that several cameramen and photographers turn over videotapes and memory chips. Police wrecked a Japanese TV crew�s video camera, and some journalists were beaten and kicked. Regional police officials said they were forbidden from saying how many people had been arrested. Protest organizers and witnesses counted more than 100. Protests over the car tariffs, which take effect next month, were held in more than a dozen cities, with motorists driving in long columns with flags waving. National TV channels, which are state-controlled, ignored the demonstrations. In Moscow, about 200 protesters wore yellow ribbons on their jackets and held placards decrying the tariffs, the Government and the rise in consumer prices. �The Russian people have started to open their eyes to what�s happening in this country,� said Andrei Ivanov, 30. �The current regime is not acting on behalf of the welfare of the people, but against the welfare of the people.� The Kremlin has sidelined political opponents and put tight controls on civil society and the media, rolling back many post-Soviet freedoms. But in recent weeks, migrant workers in the Urals city of Yekaterinburg protested against wage arrears and pensioners in the Siberian town of Barnaul took to the streets to demonstrate about the withdrawal of discounted fares on public transport. Domestic and foreign car companies� production cutbacks in Russia and warnings of potential layoffs have added to the Kremlin worries. The industry employs more than 1.5 million workers nationwide. While car workers have applauded the tariff increase, Russian consumers and others involved in the $30.5 billion car import business have not. Many Russians say they have a right to buy what they want without paying to support the Russian auto industry.

Source

Just check this bit out, Moscow riot police in Vladivostok. It takes about 5 days to get there by train or 5+ hrs by plane. Not to mention the expensive tickets.

This is just ridiculous.

I highly doubt that Moscow police took a long flight in time for this one as well. Though the police response is pretty ugly. A slap in the face to much progress and development in recent years in Russia. I am very disappointed, but not shocked. I've seen shit like that myself in 1990s, when I lived in Russia. During Yeltsin's "golden" era.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I highly doubt that Moscow police took a long flight in time for this one as well. Though the police response is pretty ugly. A slap in the face to much progress and development in recent years in Russia. I am very disappointed, but not shocked. I've seen shit like that myself in 1990s, when I lived in Russia. During Yeltsin's "golden" era.

You wanna laugh Mag? They took a private jet of MVD forces. The whole thing was setup as they should have been passing a "training" in Vladivostok.

That's a good one by Kremlin.

Like this one:




ps.
It translates: "Buy Lada, Buy Lada, you biatch!"

Lada - is a crappy Russian car. No one wants to buy that crap, because before, for same price or even cheaper you could buy a much better Japanese car on a second hand market.

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