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Posted by Yohan on Dec-24-2008 06:12:

German scholar questions existence of Prophet Muhammad

He's about to get a jihad on his ass

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/557645
quote:
Questioning of Prophet's existence stirs outcry

Muslim academic says research leads him to believe Muhammad is a mythical figure
Dec 23, 2008 04:30 AM
Comments on this story (275)
Tom Harpur
SPECIAL TO THE STAR

A noted Muslim scholar has provoked a huge controversy in Europe by openly questioning the existence of the Prophet Muhammad.

The Islamist at the centre of the storm in Germany over whether Muhammad ever existed as an historical figure says he is simply following the conclusions of many years of rigorous research.

Muhammad Sven Kalisch, 42, the chair of Islamic Studies at the University of Muenster and whose duties include training teachers for the rising number of Muslim students in German high schools, has created a furor by stating that in all probability Muhammad was a mythical creation.

He told the Star in a recent phone interview that his research leads him to believe that the three great monotheistic religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam have mythical origins.

German police worried about a possible violent backlash have told the professor to move his offices to more secure premises. But Kalisch says there have been no specific threats and he is far from being "in hiding" as some bloggers and other rumour-mongers have claimed.

However, the Central Council of Muslims in Germany to which the four largest organizations of the country's 3 million-strong Muslim community belong, has stopped its co-operation with the university's Centre for Religious Studies over the professor's stand.

A spokesperson for the council, Ali Kizilkaya, has said if the Prophet Muhammad didn't exist then the Qur'an doesn't exist.

"This would mean that we would have to abolish the religion altogether," Kizilkaya said. "We are convinced the Prophet did indeed exist and that the Qur'an is the word of God."

Michael Marx, a Qur'an specialist at the Berlin-Brandenburg Academy of Sciences, has warned his colleagues that Kalisch's views will "make it difficult" for German scholars to work in Muslim lands.

The traditional view of Muhammad is that he was born in Mecca in Arabia, about AD 570 and died in Medina around AD 632. The Qur'an, Islam's holy book, is composed of revelations believed to have been given to him by God through the archangel Gabriel. There are about one billion Muslims in the world today.

"My position with regard to the historical existence of Muhammad is that I believe neither his existence nor his non-existence can be proven," Kalisch said in a statement. "I, however, lean toward the non-existence."

He told the Star he holds the same position regarding Abraham, Moses and the other Jewish patriarchs, as well as Jesus Christ.

There have been threats, campaigns for his dismissal from his post, and dozens of media interviews, commentaries and editorials. According to Der Spiegel magazine, a group of more than 30 German academics have signed a petition supporting Kalisch's right to scholarly freedom of expression.

Kalisch studied and practised law before returning to college to take a Ph.D. in religious studies. He speaks fluent English, Turkish and Arabic as well as German.

He was born in Hamburg of a German father and a mother of Mongolian descent. They were nominal Protestants and when he began early in his teens to follow up on the Asian line of his heritage he decided to learn Turkish.

That led directly to an exposure to Islamic teaching and at 15 he decided to convert. "I was attracted by the emphasis on one God instead of a trinity," he says. "It seemed in many ways a very rational religion."

But, he differed from typical religious converts to a new faith in that he never stopped questioning. "Religion should never contradict reason," he says. "I could never accept any doctrine or belief that goes against my rational mind."

Kalisch said he realized early in 2001 that when the same scientific methods are applied to investigate Muslim claims of historicity as are used on Jewish and Christian origins, similar problems arise at once. He found that traditional theological positions soon collapse once hard evidence is sought. He discovered there is as much "myth-making" in Islam as in Judaism and Christianity. And so his current process of "rethinking Islam" was begun.

Asked whether he thought his public airings of his findings will destroy peoples' faith, he said: "It will destroy a literalist faith, a faith no longer reliable because of reason. But, the God I believe in is not a god of literalists. He is the Ultimate One. God doesn't write books. All the various sacred books are the product of human minds and experiences. They can be helpful but they must be interpreted for today."

Kalisch maintains non-Muslim scholars who agree with his hypothesis but keep silent out of "respect" for Muslims are in fact treating them as though they can't handle the truth.

"That's not respect, it's putting Muslims on the same level as small children who can't think and decide for themselves and whose illusions of Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny one doesn't want to destroy."


Posted by geroin on Dec-24-2008 06:18:

respect

but yeah he will probably get shot for that


Posted by FunkyCrew on Dec-24-2008 06:28:

nah since he's a Muslim convert and all, I think they'll just get a bit pissed and that's all


Posted by Yohan on Dec-24-2008 06:45:

quote:
Originally posted by FunkyCrew
nah since he's a Muslim convert and all, I think they'll just get a bit pissed and that's all

heretic shall be burned


Posted by UmmiE on Dec-24-2008 14:58:

quote:
Originally posted by FunkyCrew
nah since he's a Muslim convert and all, I think they'll just get a bit pissed and that's all



He's lucky he's in germany right now any other country which was controlled by muslims like Saudi Arabia,Iran,or even Pakistan.......They would have killed him by now for sure.....regardless if he is a muslim or no.


Posted by Special K on Dec-24-2008 15:08:

quote:
Originally posted by UmmiE
He's lucky he's in germany right now


so is everyone else that lives in germany as opposed to those countries?


Posted by FunkyCrew on Dec-24-2008 15:09:

quote:
Originally posted by UmmiE
He's lucky he's in germany right now any other country which was controlled by muslims like Saudi Arabia,Iran,or even Pakistan.......They would have killed him by now for sure.....regardless if he is a muslim or no.


dude doesn't matter he is
you forgot what happened to that guy in Amsterdam? Europe has a lot of Muslim communities


Posted by geroin on Dec-24-2008 15:20:

its unbelievable how (religious) people can threaten to kill just because someone decided to question religion


Posted by UmmiE on Dec-24-2008 15:21:

quote:
Originally posted by FunkyCrew
dude doesn't matter he is
you forgot what happened to that guy in Amsterdam? Europe has a lot of Muslim communities



Not sure what your talking about maybe I missed it if you have a link I'd love read it.


Posted by UmmiE on Dec-24-2008 15:28:

quote:
Originally posted by geroin
its unbelievable how (religious) people can threaten to kill just because someone decided to question religion



Its just the hardcore uneducated people who do these kinds of things or the ones that take religion way too seriously..........For me personally I dont care what he says or does......He can do as many researches and claims or even question the muslim faith completely doesnt affect me in anyway.


Posted by dEsidEL on Dec-24-2008 16:28:



well it's not like some people don't already question the existence of Jesus, Moses, Buddha, and just about every other prophet/deity out there..


Posted by plaxx on Dec-24-2008 16:39:

I used to be a muslim ... then I grew up.


Posted by FunkyCrew on Dec-24-2008 16:44:

quote:
Originally posted by UmmiE
Not sure what your talking about maybe I missed it if you have a link I'd love read it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_v...(film_director)

quote:
Mohammed Bouyeri murdered Van Gogh in the early morning of Tuesday November 2, 2004, in Amsterdam, in front of the Amsterdam East borough office (stadsdeelkantoor) on the corner of the Linnaeusstraat and Tweede Oosterparkstraat, while he was bicycling to work. He shot him eight times with an HS 2000 handgun, and Van Gogh died on the spot. Bouyeri then cut Van Gogh's throat, nearly decapitating him, and stabbed him in the chest. Two knives were left implanted in his torso, one attaching a five-page note to his body. The note (Text) threatened Western governments, Jews and Ayaan Hirsi Ali (who went into hiding). The note also contained references to the ideologies of the Egyptian organization Takfir wal-Hijra.


Posted by Adam420 on Dec-24-2008 16:45:

Well I have read a lot more evidence supporting the nonresistance of Muhammad than that of other prophets. When it comes to other prophets, it's usually not so much the question of "did they exist?" as it is "did they exist in the capacity in which they are depicted?". With Muhammad, there are various arguments that he did not exist at all. As for the Koran? Those same arguments will often say that it was written by Arab scholars roughly in the century following Muhammad's "death".

The truth is that a lot of things about Islam don't make any sense at all. Is it really possible that Abraham built the Kabbah? Did Muhammad really travel in spirit to Jerusalem following his death? I doubt it. But from what I've read, the Koran is a pretty damn mesmerizing book, and I ultimately think that is the main attributable factor to Islam's appeal.


Posted by plaxx on Dec-24-2008 16:46:

On a much related note, everyone must watch Religulous.

Wake the fuck up.


Posted by evil_cookie on Dec-24-2008 16:47:

quote:
Originally posted by plaxx
On a much related note, everyone must watch Religulous.

Wake the fuck up.


that movie is garbage
Bill Maher is a fucking idiot and a disgrace to intelligent atheists and agnostics


Posted by plaxx on Dec-24-2008 16:50:

quote:
Originally posted by evil_cookie
that movie is garbage
Bill Maher is a fucking idiot and a disgrace to intelligent atheists and agnostics


Be that as it may, I enjoyed it.


Posted by geroin on Dec-24-2008 16:59:

zeitgeist is pretty spot on about religion
addendum is awesome too


Posted by misterpink on Dec-24-2008 17:02:

Religious people are fucking looooonatics. Period. You have to be mental to believe in the word of god, that or a giant sucker.


Posted by FunkyCrew on Dec-24-2008 17:09:

quote:
Originally posted by evil_cookie
that movie is garbage
Bill Maher is a fucking idiot and a disgrace to intelligent atheists and agnostics


no waaaaai
you're soooooo off the line man

the greatest mockumentary of the year!


Posted by Adam420 on Dec-24-2008 17:10:

quote:
Originally posted by misterpink
Religious people are fucking looooonatics. Period. You have to be mental to believe in the word of god, that or a giant sucker.


I pity you for having such a narrow point of view. You can believe in God without being either crazy or a sucker, you know.


Posted by thesauce23 on Dec-24-2008 17:22:

quote:
Originally posted by geroin
its unbelievable how (religious) people can threaten to kill just because someone decided to question religion


thats why religion fuckin sucks... how can something be good if it divides people and causes them to kill? ugh huge fail


Posted by Adam420 on Dec-24-2008 17:24:

quote:
Originally posted by thesauce23
thats why religion fuckin sucks... how can something be good if it divides people and causes them to kill? ugh huge fail


You are forgetting that it's only a small minority


Posted by geroin on Dec-24-2008 17:26:

quote:
Originally posted by thesauce23
thats why religion fuckin sucks... how can something be good if it divides people and causes them to kill? ugh huge fail


biggest fail throughout its whole existence


Posted by thesauce23 on Dec-24-2008 17:33:

quote:
Originally posted by Adam420
You are forgetting that it's only a small minority


not really, think about it.. Christianity has so many divisions, they are separate from muslims who have 2 divisions i think. then they all are different from jews.. it keeps going.. all in all- we are one.. we are all human.. to divide is just fuckin stupid. everyone just keeps thinking they are different and it creates so many problems.. totally unnecessary


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