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-- plagirism... or is it?

plagirism... or is it?

i'm new to the whole dj'ing scene, and i was wondering...

If you're listening to a dj on a radio show/ live show/ whatever,
say you hear two songs that mix fantastically. Is it wrong to mix the same two songs in a row at a show/ in a set?

redundancy is very prominent in this industry

Not at all. Why would it be? If it sounds fucking awesome, I would personally love to hear it in a club. You can't copyright "mixing".

Quite the opposite! When you mix your aim is to get tunes that sound well together, to get a flow going. Of course you need progression etc in a set, but the idea when you're mixing is to try and mix tunes that mix well together. I mean what do you want? tunes that don't mix well together!?

I don't know why you say Plagiarism? Maybe you simply don't understand what this word means (?)...

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Originally posted by kevferris I don't know why you say Plagiarism? Maybe you simply don't understand what this word means (?)...

+1

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Originally posted by kevferris Quite the opposite! When you mix your aim is to get tunes that sound well together, to get a flow going. Of course you need progression etc in a set, but the idea when you're mixing is to try and mix tunes that mix well together. I mean what do you want? tunes that don't mix well together!? I don't know why you say Plagiarism? Maybe you simply don't understand what this word means (?)...

I think you've missed that he's talking about copying a certain sequence of tunes that another DJ did...

e.g. if I saw Armin playing track X and mixing it into track Y, if I didn't think he was a complete pillock I might decide it sounded amazing, go and buy track X and track Y and try and mix them in the same way.

I think it's fine if it's not a particular trademark/signature mix of a particular DJ... but try not to let that guide your track selection too close to another DJ's just for the sake of a good mix

Just a lack of originality

quote:

Originally posted by kevferris I don't know why you say Plagiarism? Maybe you simply don't understand what this word means (?)...

Can you explain what you mean by this?

As far as I know, plagiarism is when you use someone else's idea (i.e. mixing song X and song Y) and claiming it as your own.

Obviously if you just play it during a set at a club you aren't explicitly claiming to the crowd that this was your own original mix invention. However, if you were producing a mix CD and you did this I would consider that plagiarism, unless you included some sort of citation which gave credit to the original creator of the mix (LOL).

No, plagiarism is using another's work and claiming at as your own.

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Originally posted by Adam420 No, plagiarism is using another's work and claiming at as your own.

Certainly in the academic world it extends to using someone else's idea as well... if you write a technical document and make a statement without saying what your source was, it can be construed as you claiming the idea as your own, which is usually considered as plagiarism.

Never copy a transition. In fact don't even play a track that another DJ has ever played. Ever.

quote:

Originally posted by Trance Android Never copy a transition. In fact don't even play a track that another DJ has ever played. Ever.

I go even further, even if I just think theres a small chance someone somewhere who is a dj might have played that tune once in any location ever. So pretty much anything I think anyone else would like, I will not play as they might be a dj which would ruin the track. This is why I have begun spinning trance, there is absolutely no way anyone would like and therefore play this(unplagairised however) shit. Previously I was playing speedcore, but thats become too commercial.

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Originally posted by Darkarbiter I go even further, even if I just think theres a small chance someone somewhere who is a dj might have played that tune once in any location ever. So pretty much anything I think anyone else would like, I will not play as they might be a dj which would ruin the track. This is why I have begun spinning trance, there is absolutely no way anyone would like and therefore play this(unplagairised however) shit. Previously I was playing speedcore, but thats become too commercial.

Dick.

quote:

Originally posted by teufel-man Can you explain what you mean by this? As far as I know, plagiarism is when you use someone else's idea (i.e. mixing song X and song Y) and claiming it as your own. Obviously if you just play it during a set at a club you aren't explicitly claiming to the crowd that this was your own original mix invention. However, if you were producing a mix CD and you did this I would consider that plagiarism, unless you included some sort of citation which gave credit to the original creator of the mix (LOL).

Okay sorry, i think i misunderstood the OP's point, he's saying if Paul van Dyk mixes "Solange - Messages" into "Mr Sam - Lyteo" is it plagiarism to copy that mix. Well, PvD or any dj doesn't exactly have a trademark on mixing two tunes together does he? It's a misinterpretation of the word plagiarism. Nobody has a "copyright" or can claim they "invented" a mix between 2 tunes, so you can't plagiarise it. Let's be honest even if you copy a PvD mix from say his Politics of Dancing 2 mix cd you still need to work out where to cue up the record and then where to fire it in, plus you need to work out the pitch.

I mean if x dj does a mix with 2 tunes people are saying just on that basis you can never mix those 2 tunes together!? I think this is silly, to limit yourself just because you heard someone else do it first. What if you're planning a mix, and you can't get tune y to go with tune x, but tune z goes really well with it, but some big dj played it, so you don't include it, silly.

If your sets consist of stealing 2 tracks in a row from another DJ then you need to try harder.

Of course we all get tracks from other DJs but there are thousands of amazing track combinations out there... find your own and maybe some chump will copy you.

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Originally posted by kevferris Okay sorry, i think i misunderstood the OP's point, he's saying if Paul van Dyk mixes "Solange - Messages" into "Mr Sam - Lyteo" is it plagiarism to copy that mix. Well, PvD or any dj doesn't exactly have a trademark on mixing two tunes together does he? It's a misinterpretation of the word plagiarism. Nobody has a "copyright" or can claim they "invented" a mix between 2 tunes, so you can't plagiarise it. Let's be honest even if you copy a PvD mix from say his Politics of Dancing 2 mix cd you still need to work out where to cue up the record and then where to fire it in, plus you need to work out the pitch. I mean if x dj does a mix with 2 tunes people are saying just on that basis you can never mix those 2 tunes together!? I think this is silly, to limit yourself just because you heard someone else do it first. What if you're planning a mix, and you can't get tune y to go with tune x, but tune z goes really well with it, but some big dj played it, so you don't include it, silly.

Obviously its not official plagarism that someone could be sued for or anything. Mixing song A into B is never going to be trademarked or copyrighted! But if you do hear PVD for example mix song A into B and say 'boy thats sounds sweet', and then use it in your own mix, you are essentially copying their idea... and could be loosely considered plagarism, but never to the extent that someone would be accused of 'plagarism'! Plagarism is probably too strong of a word to apply to this sort of situation. Its not that its plagarism in a legal sense, just that you are pretty much copying someone elses idea!

That being said, I think that DJs should listen to other DJs sets to see which songs work well together and to learn from them. However, directly copying anothers mix idea does show a lack of originality, which almost defeats the purpose of being a DJ!

I would say the same thing that I would to someone who wanted to copy a technique by Zabiela or Halliwell.

You will probably find that even if you use the same combination of tracks the mix itself will still sound different. You are bound to eq differently and fade etc.

I don't think it's wrong at all. What I think you should do is, take the mix, perform it, then try and figure out what it is that makes it stand out as a great mix and try to apply it to the rest of your mixing.
And after that, experiment and take that particular technique to the next level. Improve on it and make it your own.

That isn't plagarism, that's called learning and inovation. And besides, do it well enough and someone will listen to you and go, "damn I want to do that", and then the cycle starts again.

That said, when performing you should always try and aim for originality as it will serve you better in the long run, but not at the expense of sounding good in the ears of your audience. Unless your audience is a group of transpotting freaks they will not appreciate originality if it isn't entertaining.

If you enjoy performing the mix, who is to stop you. It still has to be fun.

Cheers
Nem

And just to add a word of warning...

As I said, understand what you are doing so you can apply it to other mixes or you may in time find yourself stuck with a very 'samey' type sound because you are always doing the same mix or same combinations of records at the peak of your set.

A Good DJ should know/have the following:

1. Have enough tunes to be able to play two sets in the same night and not repeat a single track. Should be easy enough as they would technically be different time slots but you get the idea.

2. Know how to pick the tracks so that you get the best flow possible and keep the people moving and enjoying themselves.

For example, let's say you play a friends party and you use a particular combination of tunes because you know they work well. If one month later you play another party and you find yourself playing pretty much the same thing then you either don't have enough tunes or are too dependant on a combination of tracks.

Can't emphasize enough, know why it works and then apply to the rest of your mixing.

Can one ask just out of interest what the tunes are and maybe I can give you my opinion why they work?

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 For example, let's say you play a friends party and you use a particular combination of tunes because you know they work well. If one month later you play another party and you find yourself playing pretty much the same thing then you either don't have enough tunes or are too dependant on a combination of tracks.

but you just condemned like 75% of int DJs today

quote:

Originally posted by Yohan but you just condemned like 75% of int DJs today

lol yeah, but they can get away with it as the ball game changes slightly when you have a following that are excited just to be at the same venue as you.
But I would say that a large number of them have become complacent with regards to skills like reading the crowd and do often leave somewhat disapointed at times.
I do accept that there are some tunes of the moment that will be played over and over for a month or so but you should still want to be more creative.
That said 75% might be a little to high as I know that there are still great DJs at work out there on the international circuit.

Cheers
Nem

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