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Bassline Question ?

hav been making dance for about 6 months and hav found my chord progression skills and use of efx etc etc are slowly getting better .. the only thing i cant seem to get right is basslines. Can anyone one give me a few tips on good running basslines .. im aware some basslines are layered to give them that running feel .. here are a few examples of ones i like :

A: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HtSo41iKGnk

the baasline kicks in at around 1.00 min was wondering is there a pitch bend used to create this and if so, how is it layed out ?

B: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-m-oKJk57u8

This ones kicks in around 1:27 mins and is a more full on style some like to call it the '' Discover '' sounding bassline with a bit more pace to it similar to sean tyas or even Onova

Any help on how to re-create these to types of basslines would be much appreciated !

Thanks in Advance !

Re: Bassline Question ?

quote:

Originally posted by blue-horizon hav been making dance for about 6 months and hav found my chord progression skills and use of efx etc etc are slowly getting better .. the only thing i cant seem to get right is basslines. Can anyone one give me a few tips on good running basslines .. im aware some basslines are layered to give them that running feel .. here are a few examples of ones i like : A: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HtSo41iKGnk the baasline kicks in at around 1.00 min was wondering is there a pitch bend used to create this and if so, how is it layed out ? B: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0zZEjeA74GQ This ones kicks in around 1:37 mins and is a more full on style some like to call it the '' Discover '' sounding bassline with a bit more pace to it similar to sean tyas or even Onova Any help on how to re-create these to types of basslines would be much appreciated ! Thanks in Advance !

Be warned I listened to the first one on my built in laptop speakers in a room where my brother has the tv blasting.
What I could hear though sounded like an extremely typical 2 octave running bass.
And honestly running basses are no harder or easier than any other kind of bass.

You basically put the bass on 2 octaves (sometimes 3 but rarely) chop each octave up, and you get about a million different possible arrangments that cause all kinds of different driving feels.

For good running basses make sure the decay is fairly short so its punches through kinda like a pluck but not that sharp.
I also think noise (for me at least) is essential.

I run the noise through an envelope filter with very sharp decay, tiny bit of sustain, and a tiny bit more release. This adds that knife like effect on top of the bass as it punches through the track.

Other then that I mean there really is so many different ways you can do it.
But mainly take any trance bass, shorten the decay, sustain and release, add a bit of noise, and make the envelopes wrap the sound like a knife (more like a dull knife, a sharp knife is where the plucks come into play).

Then my favorite part is wave ducking the lower frequencies to create a sort of transparent pumping between the kick and running bass. Its almost impossible to notice but it makes the 2 merge quite nicely.
Than there is the option of adding a sub also, sometimes I do sometimes I don't, really depends on how many lows are coming from the main lead, pads, etc.

Experiment though, running basses are really cool and relatively easy to make.

Re: Re: Bassline Question ?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox You basically put the bass on 2 octaves (sometimes 3 but rarely) chop each octave up, and you get about a million different possible arrangments that cause all kinds of different driving feels.

Close. It is more of a layering game.

You think it is just two octaves, but you may be fooled, it is quite a bit of quality layering and eq. Personally in my tracks i have about 3-4 mid basses layers, 2-3 acid lines going and a sub bass. That will essentially be the bassline. It may sound simple but the quality is in the ability to meld the sounds together into a thick and rich bass sound.

This is essentially what i do.
k=kick
m=mid bass
s=sub bass
a=acid line

k---k---k---k---
-mmm-mmm-mmm-mmm
--ss--ss--ss--ss
a-aa-a-aa-aa-a-a

Next what you want to do is have everything essentially eqed and mixed properly. Not going to go into much detail on that since there are mass amounts of threads and tutorials on equalization. Delay and reverb here are your friends, run each bass (aside from sub) into a seperate delay channel. Next sidechain each bassline with varying tresh hold on each. Personally i just prefer whatever sounds the best to my ear, dont really follow much in terms of numbers and whatnot. When you are done it should sound something like this, i made this quickly to show you the idea i was trying to convey.
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]


If you have any questions feel free to pm me, and i can even hook you up with some midis if you like.

Re: Re: Re: Bassline Question ?

quote:

Originally posted by Stef This is essentially what i do. k=kick m=mid bass s=sub bass a=acid line k---k---k---k--- -mmm-mmm-mmm-mmm --ss--ss--ss--ss a-aa-a-aa-aa-a-a

thanks man, very good post
the sample sounds great too

Huge n00b question (in terms of terminology) is the difference between your sub and mid bass simply the filter you run it through (i.e: the frequencies your using), or is it more than that?

obviously u'd use difference bass sounds for different tracks, but you'd use one sound at XXXfrequency, and one at YYYfrequency every time yeah?

tah

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bassline Question ?

quote:

Originally posted by EgosXII Huge n00b question (in terms of terminology) is the difference between your sub and mid bass simply the filter you run it through (i.e: the frequencies your using), or is it more than that? tah

Usually, the sub-bass is a pure sine wave played at octave 1 or 2(depending on synth settings),and mid can be many things, like an acid line or just higher octave bass which has more harmonics than a simple lowend sine wave.

hey guys thanks for all the advice some really good interesting tips there .. was wondering if you could explain how the two sample basslines are layed out in a small diagram similar to the way stef described making his/hers .. as im still sort of a novice and need all the information and explaining I can get ! Thanks Guys really appreciate you taking the time to have a go at this ! P.s I changed the second sample to a clearer sample !

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bassline Question ?

quote:

Originally posted by Lucidity Usually, the sub-bass is a pure sine wave played at octave 1 or 2(depending on synth settings),and mid can be many things, like an acid line or just higher octave bass which has more harmonics than a simple lowend sine wave.

how funny i didn't know it was that simple
thanks mate

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bassline Question ?

quote:

Originally posted by EgosXII thanks man, very good post the sample sounds great too Huge n00b question (in terms of terminology) is the difference between your sub and mid bass simply the filter you run it through (i.e: the frequencies your using), or is it more than that? obviously u'd use difference bass sounds for different tracks, but you'd use one sound at XXXfrequency, and one at YYYfrequency every time yeah? tah

Well the simplest ways to describe the mid bass are the essentially the part of the basslines that give the majority of the drive to the track. A mid bass is most often a low octave bass sound with the most of the major lower frequencies stripped away. And a sub bass is just what it sounds like the sub frequencies that are there to just give more power to a track.

Here is an example of both:
Sub bass:
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]

Mid bass:
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bassline Question ?

quote:

Originally posted by Stef Well the simplest ways to describe the mid bass are the essentially the part of the basslines that give the majority of the drive to the track. A mid bass is most often a low octave bass sound with the most of the major lower frequencies stripped away. And a sub bass is just what it sounds like the sub frequencies that are there to just give more power to a track. Here is an example of both: Sub bass: [[ LINK REMOVED ]] Mid bass: [[ LINK REMOVED ]]

Your sample sounds really cool man ... is there any way you could PM me the midis to give me an idea of what im doing ? Love the acid sound aswell .. what synth you use for that ? cheers

stef was just listening to your track on your myspace .. love it by the way well done ! thats the exact type of bassline im trying to get.. could you PM me the midis for that bassline

Of course let me just get it into a neat little pack.

quote:

Originally posted by Stef Of course let me just get it into a neat little pack.

Cheers man .. Legend !

quote:

Originally posted by Stef Of course let me just get it into a neat little pack.

Cheers man .. Legend !

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bassline Question ?

quote:

Originally posted by Stef Well the simplest ways to describe the mid bass are the essentially the part of the basslines that give the majority of the drive to the track. A mid bass is most often a low octave bass sound with the most of the major lower frequencies stripped away. And a sub bass is just what it sounds like the sub frequencies that are there to just give more power to a track. Here is an example of both: Sub bass: [[ LINK REMOVED ]] Mid bass: [[ LINK REMOVED ]]

yeah sweet mate, cheers for that, been needlessly confused about that for a while
very simple but effective.
i've just been making mid-basses, with no sub, and my bass has always sounded hollow, just chucked a simple sub
k---k---
--ss--ss
and it sounds 100 times better. cheers

Thats the second rolling bassline sorted ! anyone hav any ideas on recreating the first sample bassline the more progressive one ?

quote:

Originally posted by blue-horizon Thats the second rolling bassline sorted ! anyone hav any ideas on recreating the first sample bassline the more progressive one ?

probbly with alterations on the first method.

quote:

Originally posted by EgosXII probbly with alterations on the first method.

Ye maybe ... but the last note seems to have a pitch bend or something on it or maybe its a different octave ! dont really know how its done ?

I'm confused how this is different than what I said.

Well , Actually i would want to know how to create this unique bassline , espically the one at the armin remix.
But i was thinking ,
If you play 4 hi hats loops at the same time , they would sound complex.
And since the basslines we are talking about is also Complex,
Wouldn't playing 4 seperate basslines at the same time sounds kinda complex?

Just my 2 cents

quote:

Originally posted by noicuc Well , Actually i would want to know how to create this unique bassline , espically the one at the armin remix. But i was thinking , If you play 4 hi hats loops at the same time , they would sound complex. And since the basslines we are talking about is also Complex, Wouldn't playing 4 seperate basslines at the same time sounds kinda complex? Just my 2 cents

Multiple mid basses with a separate delay on each on, though each sidechained should be the trick.

Something ive always found helpful is understanding the concept behind the layered effect. Usually when you layer something its because rarely does one sound fully provide everything to the track. For Example...

Sub Bass - Used for the lower end subwoofer driving freqs (the bass you feel)
Midbass - I refer to this as texture or the bass that you hear.

With multiple layers of mid bass with delay and various other fx you create your bassline.

This is often seen with leads. Where the use of panning, layered sounds and freq eq/roll offs can produce a massive lead sound.

I find the hardest thing to do is creating really thick full sounding basslines without distortion or clipping. Still trying to overcome that. Getting there though


K

I also struggle with getting a good sounding bassline, particularly when trying to get that layered sound, so often used on the Discover label. I understand the concept behind it yet find it hard to create bassline patterns that when layered with another, dont sound a mess, even when eq'd. If anyone could provide examples of basslines with 3-4 seperate layers, either in midi file format or written notation, im sure myself and countless others would find it extremely useful for improving our productions. Thanks.

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