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Trance digital djing

I am still a noob in this field (so don't bash me too much if I wrote senseless stuff ), however before starting I am obviously reading and informing myself if I really want to try and become one. I sold my last dj equipment probably 5 years ago, which was no more than a normal 4 channel mixer plus two turntables, mainly because of money issues as I was still a student. I also wasn't too satisfied with the level of interaction that I had with my music, however with all new hardware and software that was released lately this seems to have changed. However before making any kind of investment (at the moment money is a bit less of an issue and the best products seems to have a more than decent resale value), I want to know where I am exactly heading.

However I have read this on the Xone 4D thread that was opened 2 months ago:

quote:

But really, how much of this do you really need to mix trance. Layering and looping and effecting to that extent really only works for the more minimal genres

So my pretty basic question is to what extend is it possible to add effects, layering and looping on current progressive (psy) trance and the most melodic prog house, which is the music that I dig the most, as I am not totally into minimal and/or electro. Or with this type of music is it really still 90% about mixing tracks together and 10% about the rest?

The only limit is your own creativity.

I am sorry to annoying you in what was just an open question for a possibly interesting discussion. Since the limit is just my own creativity, why would that user say that is useless to buy one of the best equipment on the market for just "playing" trance tracks? This implies that there is something you can't do with trance tracks that instead is possible with techno or electro, or I am understanding what he wrote wrongly?

it's a bit true: trance is more produced, and more set in a certain pattern that, if you disrupt it can ruin the song, whereas for minimal/techno for instance, the song has big areas where there's little progression in the track, so if u mess with it while DJING it sounds alright, while for trance you might just ruin the flow...

if you're good however of course you can do the same for trance! that guy probably just doesn't mix trance very much, or is really unadventurous...

look at richard durand and eddie halliwell's djing style, they destroy tracks! you could do the same, i don't really like it, but it's deffinitly possible for trance

as above, the only limit is creativity

Money must be much less of an issue than it once was if as a "n00b" you're considering spunking �1500 on your mixer alone

Seriously though, for what it's worth this is just my opinion as everyone will have a personal preferences or viewpoint of their own. Trance covers quite a wide berth these days from the straight melodic styles through to harder stuff & then the slower proggy stuff. I agree to a certain extent that straight trance lends itself more to smooth blends & transitions, thats not to say that a few well placed filters/phasers/flangers etc don't sound great

As a generalisation I'd say something like "house" is more suited to building huge layers or going mental with Ableton. The 32 beat structure of trance with it's builds & breakdowns doesn't really lend itself to chopping it about with FX, quick cuts etc etc etc in the same way a genre like house does. Just my opinion.

Thanks, I like slightly more elaborated replies.

@ EgosXII: I will check out some of Halliwell sets if he is one of those djs experimenting this type of fairly new tecniques also with trance. Likely to skip Durand given the shit he is producing.

@ Trance Android: Money is less of an issue, but I don't want to make a big expenditure just for the sake of it. At the moment I tend towards a VCI 100 + traktor pro, however all the discussion about the quality of Allen & Heath products got me curious and I usually hate to satisfy myself with second best products if I can afford to buy better ones. As for your answer, I am more into the slower proggy psyish stuff which may have more room for some twists than the classic melodic type of trance, although I totally see the point Egos and you make about trance having some characteristics that are less suited for certain tweaks.

quote:

Originally posted by Trancefxs I am sorry to annoying you in what was just an open question for a possibly interesting discussion. Since the limit is just my own creativity, why would that user say that is useless to buy one of the best equipment on the market for just "playing" trance tracks? This implies that there is something you can't do with trance tracks that instead is possible with techno or electro, or I am understanding what he wrote wrongly?

I am not annoyed, my response was merely to make you see that there is a lot you can do with any kind of music, it entirely depends on the DJ and his own imagination (and skill, of course). This doesn't mean that you will be able to pull off a "Balance 014" a la Joris Voorn with "trance" music, of course.

A huge example that there are some things you can do with it is the amount of "trance mash-ups" there exist. You might have to do some editing beforehand, but it's possible.

quote:

Originally posted by Trancefxs @ EgosXII: I will check out some of Halliwell sets if he is one of those djs experimenting this type of fairly new tecniques also with trance. Likely to skip Durand given the shit he is producing.

hehe fair enough, i meant more that they're both very intense mixers, and do a lot with their tracks, in reference to the guy saying you can't do much when mixing with trance... don't think they use digital djing stuff tho, but i'm sure it translates

Clearly that user has only heard shit trance.

quote:

effects, layering and looping on current progressive (psy) trance and the most melodic prog house

You can pull off any genre with any manner of professional equipment.
Don't let the music choose your gear for you.

Re: Trance digital djing

I think to get to the larger question that was "can you use all the features of the xone 4d in trance?" Absolutely!

You don't want to mess up the flow of a trance song as mentioned. So effects that chop up the song, or jumping to different cue points aren't quite as useful. That doesn't mean that you can't use effects. I would look for effects that change the sound of the song, but not the flow, or are useful for mashing two songs together. Things like filters, flangers, and gating.

For instance I'm a big fan of DJ Tiesto, and something I notice from watching videos of him playing is that he frequently combines parts from two songs. He'll set the main song going on one deck, and then use EQ and filters to isolate out a part from another song.

Of course a xone might be a little overkill unless you are either really serious or really rich. To be honest I really shouldn't be talking, because I get along just fine right now with nothing but a mouse and keyboard.

What equipment would you suggest to start? Undecided betweeen a VCI 100, that I don't understand if it's possible to combine with other hardware devices if I want to expand further my control over the music. Or look for a 4 channel mixer that can be set to control Traktor (which ones?) without troubles plus a Xone 1D and another midi controllers like the Stanton 3d or the Korg Nano Pad, with this setup I would control volumes and the mixing phase with the mixer and add effects through the midi controllers if it actually makes sense. I own a Motu 828 Mk2 audio interface so I don't really need another soundcard and it will be for 99% bedroom use.

Then the question would be how experienced are you, really? You wrote on the first post that you consider yourself to still be a 'noob', so IMO anything besides a midi controller to control Traktor (if that is indeed what you're working on) with is overkill.

I personally recommend the Vestax VCI-100. It works with Traktor 3 perfectly straight out of the box. I know there's a .tks file at the Vestax website that allows you to control 4 decks with it but I'm not really sure how well it works. If you want full control over 4 decks than a more advanced controller like the xone:1d will work much better, I think. But again, all will depend on your actual skill level. Hope this helps

The VCI-100 is probably the nicest of the base controllers, and I haven't read very many problems with it. It's the VCI-300 that has compatibility issues with everything.

I don't like making flat out recommendations though. That would be just as bad as deciding your track list. If you've done your research and that's what sounds good to you then I say go for it.

Yeah, the VCI 100 seems the most safe bet, however I have read that the VCM 600 was just released and was especially developped for mixing, it costs a bit more though.

I don't think the VCM-600 and VCI-100 are really comparable. It doesn't have any controls to work the deck like jog wheels or even a play button.

http://ci.vestax.com/en/products/im...er_vcm600_L.jpg

However, I do think it would be a good idea to wait until March to make your purchases. I think there's going to be some big announcements in the next few months, but I don't really know anything for sure.

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