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-- Ableton, Cubase & Robert Nickson
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Ableton, Cubase & Robert Nickson

I've heard people say that Ableton is good for live performances, but Cubase is better for production in the studio. I just noticed that on Robert Nickson's website, he lists the software he uses in his studio & ableton is one of them even though Cubase is not mentioned at all. From this, im guessing that he uses Ableton Live for production in his studio. I'm wondering why a big name trance producer uses Ableton when lots of people say that Cubase is better for production. Can Cubase be THAT much better for production if a big name guy uses Ableton?

They're all mostly the same nowadays. The differences aren't that big. They've got their pros and cons here and there, but all in all the big rule is that you'll get the most out of the program you either know best, or like best.

ableton is definitely better for live acts, in the studio though it's a matter of preference: cubase, logic, FL, reason....whatever works better for you.

Yep, use what you find the best. I use Live 7 for production yet I like to bounce it to Cubase 4 as I find the post production easier

fledz, so u just export stems yeah?

Yep. Not always though. I'm weird in that way

However I should mention I did it at a mates place as I didn't actually have C4. I ordered it today though so will see if my workflow changes once I've actually got it on my own PC.
Been looking forward to it for a while.

A lot has to do with what you learned on as well. Back when I got into production I had Cubase SX3 cracked on my PC so of course I was trying that and lots of other stuff.

Then when I got older I decided I loved Live so I bought that.
Now I'm buying C4 lol. It's weird how your work patterns change as time progresses.

from 95 till 99 => cakewalk express on windows
from 99 till 01 => logic platinum 3 and 4 on Windows
from 01 till 06 => logic 5, 6 and 7 on mac
from 06 till 08=> Ableton Live 5, 6 and 7
now => Reason 4, Ableton Live 7 and Melodyne rewired to Logic 8.

I cannot let software influence my workflow and my sounds anymore. There's no better sequencer. There are goals, and they need to be achieved.

Back with Logic 7 there was no offline editing, which is present in cubase SX. Now it's back within logic studio (Soundtrack Pro) and it works well. But there's no elastic audio like we have it into Live 7. But Protools 8 has them all... will Live 8 have nice features, including Surround and PenTablet Support? Oh wait, what about Digital Performer? of FL Studio? They all have pros and cons after all...

Back in the good days, it was easier. There was your synth's sequencer and eventually an atari st, a pc or a mac running a midi sequencer, cubase, cakewalk, notator, end of story. Sometimes I miss those days. But I'd never have got where I'm at now tech-wise with this kind of hardware.

at this point, depends on your needs (hardware? lots of recording? mainly midi/software based?), workflow, creative tendencies, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by psymon.d at this point, depends on your needs (hardware? lots of recording? mainly midi/software based?), workflow, creative tendencies, etc.

Which one do you reckon is best for midi / software based?

quote:

Originally posted by XvN Which one do you reckon is best for midi / software based?

for me personally (out of the two DAW's in question), I would probably work in Ableton for midi/software productions, just because the way it's set up is conducive to idea generating for me. though, as an ex-FL user and current Logic user, I'd say they're superb options, especially FL for software based productions.

I guess the moral of the story is know what you're wanting to do with your work, and what gear you'll be using (taking into consideration time down the road...you don't want to be getting something like FL studio knowing you'll soon own a myriad of hardware synths and mics for recording in a few months time).

another moral of the story is how well the software fits your style of work. yes, there are deficiencies when you look at software next to one another, but it means nothing if one of them fits your creative direction. I eventually switched from FL Studio to Logic because the pattern based sequencing was sucking me into a habit of just making 8 bar loops and jamming to them. The Linear sequencing of Logic feels more geared towards song format for me, therefore its a better fit. The opposite might be true for you, or it might not matter. Inadequacies exist, but they can be corrected/dealt with if you really like the rest of the package.

quote:

Originally posted by psymon.d pattern based sequencing was sucking me into a habit of just making 8 bar loops and jamming to them

speak up! i got the same problem in reason. tho i have a good time when doing it therapy all the way.

quote:

Originally posted by palm speak up! i got the same problem in reason. tho i have a good time when doing it therapy all the way.

yeah man, I had loads of fun doing it, but realized I wasn't getting any new songs done, just lots and lots of concepts ! and though it was fun, was never nearly as rewarding as finishing a tune that you've spent hours on.

quote:

Originally posted by psymon.d I eventually switched from FL Studio to Logic because the pattern based sequencing was sucking me into a habit of just making 8 bar loops and jamming to them. The Linear sequencing of Logic feels more geared towards song format for me, therefore its a better fit.

Ha, yeah.

When I feel like I'm stuck in a rut, I take the sequencer off of loop mode. It makes me start thinking of it as a whole composition rather than a pile of loops...

When i am in Fl studio i am always working with the step sequencer. You can put midi notes in the "playlist" which is basically like arrangement mode in ableton. But once you start in that step sequencer you can't just start working in the playlist with midi. That is mainly why i am starting to switch sequencers. I am deciding between ableton and sonar, leaning towards sonar.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Ha, yeah. When I feel like I'm stuck in a rut, I take the sequencer off of loop mode. It makes me start thinking of it as a whole composition rather than a pile of loops...

We've got the exact same mindset when it comes to that then.

pwnage1: sounds like you're in the same boat too. I tried sonar when I was on a PC, and I'd probably be using it if I didn't now own a Mac.

I've seen people doing amazing things with Ableton, however, the layout of the program doesn't really catch me. I am also hooked on Cubase so that could be a reason why Ableton doesn't interest me at this point.

quote:

Originally posted by Theran I've seen people doing amazing things with Ableton, however, the layout of the program doesn't really catch me. I am also hooked on Cubase so that could be a reason why Ableton doesn't interest me at this point.

Same here, i really like Ableton until i get to the arrangement window, then i dont feel comfortable at all.
The way Cubase handles blocks of audio and MIDI is just amazing!
Cut, copy, duplicate, paste, crossfade, so damn easy i can lay down a whole arrangement in a matter of minutes.

Do you reckon an FL studio user would catch on quicker with Cubase than Ableton?

I think FL users will have an easier time getting used to Ableton. Ableton is more or less similar to FL in a way. Unconventional layout, but practical and easy to get around in. Cubase takes a lot more searching and getting to know all those nifty shortcuts before it really gets you up to speed.

I recently moved from Fl Studio to Ableton Live and it was really quick to learn not because they are similar (the arrangement and mixer windows in particular are really different from FL's system) but because everything in Live is really intuitive in my opinion

quote:

Originally posted by staticblue I recently moved from Fl Studio to Ableton Live and it was really quick to learn not because they are similar (the arrangement and mixer windows in particular are really different from FL's system) but because everything in Live is really intuitive in my opinion

I have to agree here, and as far as what Subtle said with cutting, copying, pasting, and all that, you CAN do that in Live and its quick and easy once you learn the shortcuts to do it.

Like cutting, it doesn't say cut, but, it has split, which you can split segments fast and if you know the shortcuts, you can copy and paste super fast, just highlight the section you want, press ctrl+ drag it, presto.

For me, I have tried all sequencers except Logic and Reaper, and I found none as simple and powerful at the same time as Live. There are many that are good, but, Live, is fast, for me anyway. But, I have been sticking to it, and really like many have said already, it just depends on what works for your work flow.

I second that too. Working with Live is fast. There are some things it cannot do but you have to be extremely trained to know which parts still need some improvements from the Abletonz. Good thing with shortcuts if you're on a mac, is that you can affect the different operations to your function keys. IF you need the function keys (for brightness, volume etc...) you can affect it all to Fn+Function key. Dead simple to do in Os X and I'm sure you can do the same into Windows.

I'm gonna say it again, but, Don't let those user interfaces get in the way of your creativity.


L.

Anyone got any nice skins for ableton while we are on the subject.

quote:

Originally posted by staticblue I recently moved from Fl Studio to Ableton Live and it was really quick to learn not because they are similar (the arrangement and mixer windows in particular are really different from FL's system) but because everything in Live is really intuitive in my opinion

why did you switch, if you don't mind me asking? i've done the same thing (as in switched from FL).

I voted for both, but that is because I always used both before I moved to Logic. I didn't like doing mixdowns in Ableton, and I didn't like doing live jams in Cubase, so I needed both.

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