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The Obama thread - Without flaming!

Obama will soon be the US president and it will be a new for the US...the first black president.

What do you

1. Approve of him
   
2. Disaprove of him
   
3. wish he tackles during his presidency
   

I approve...

I think the biggest thing I have noticed is the fire he has sparked in a lot of people. They want change and are willing to listen to him and help make change in themselves.

And yes Frank he has a soul.

he is probably the lesser of two evils.

Unfortunately, I think he has been set up to fail....by no fault of his own. Everyone seems to think he will be the saviour of the USA...and not only Americans think that.

He will either be one of the greatest successes or one of the biggest failures as a president....that is if he even survives one term.

he's going to tread on thin ice, with success or failure of bailout package be seen as his responsibility

afraid he's going to be too much hype, not enough substance. he's basically looked upon as a saviour by many after debacle that is bush's presidency. if he cannot deliver quickly, the optimism will quickly turn into pessimism and the yanks may turn on him.

I approve, but he sure does have some big fuckups to fix. Good or bad he should be interesting to watch.

quote:

Originally posted by She_Fitz I approve... I think the biggest thing I have noticed is the fire he has sparked in a lot of people. They want change and are willing to listen to him and help make change in themselves. And yes Frank he has a soul.

He definitely has charisma. His acceptance speech was nothing short of spectacular and motivating. Americans are beat up and I hope he keeps it up and people support him. I wish harper was anywhere close to him in charisma....Harper is close to a zombie in comparison

Also, if you evaluate him on leadership skills, hes pretty much way up there in the books. I see him as a new CEO in a battered company, many things have to be fixed, and it starts with a sound vision

I think he has evaluated past failures quite heavily to make sure he doesnt repeat it.

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced he is probably the lesser of two evils. Unfortunately, I think he has been set up to fail....by no fault of his own. Everyone seems to think he will be the saviour of the USA...and not only Americans think that. He will either be one of the greatest successes or one of the biggest failures as a president....that is if he even survives one term.

he definitely has a tough mandate. Bush simply fucking up with external relations, made USA one of the most hated countries, congress being fucking lazy in implementing regulations in companies such as Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae. On one side, democrats sleeping with the companies, and republicans pushing for regulation....when usually democrats are pro-regulation and republicans are pro-market.


His success depends on his influence on congress...simple as that... and thats a bloody hard thing to do!

Approve: his charisma, which may become a great asset if the recession becomes a depression or if another war erupts.

Disapprove: his pie-in-the-sky goals without any corresponding plans.

Disapprove: his obvious socialism.

Disapprove: his wife.

quote:

Originally posted by devnull Bush simply fucking up with external relations, made USA one of the most hated countries

I thought you wanted this to just be about Obama and keep it constructive. You don't even follow your own rules. Anyway, Bush fucked up nothing internationally, he was just a convenient target for those who already hated the USA.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Disapprove: his obvious socialism. Disapprove: his wife.

Re: socialism, i think organizations benefited too much in the last few years, I believe it is time for average people to have some type of living.
On Wall st, pple that lost their job were making in the 100k...
CEO that were ousted were still granted millions for getting a kicking in the ass goodbye... I really dont believe in golden parachutes
as a normal employee, u get fired..u dont even get EI....execs...get fired...u get millions...

What is wrong with his wife? I have not followed that side at all

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut I thought you wanted this to just be about Obama and keep it constructive. You don't even follow your own rules. Anyway, Bush fucked up nothing internationally, he was just a convenient target for those who already hated the USA.

What i meant re: flaming is no bitching re: obama. There's definitely some hate against him. That's why I tried to frame the thread on what do you approve, disapprove of him and his challenges

What i meant re: bush fucking up international relations is that if you look at how US was perceived at the end of Clinton's era to post Bush era, the US is much more hated in comparison.

I personally not a fan of Bush. That is based on the fact than im against war. I'd pull out canadian troops out of afghanistan and iraq. I believe the army is a big waste of money.

Ie. If the US was to spend the money spent on Iraq war on its health system, it would be much closer to the canadian system or better (not to say that canadian health system is perfect).
My mom had surgery today, total cost, $4 in parking....in the US....id be shittin my pants seein the bill

quote:

Originally posted by devnull I personally not a fan of Bush. That is based on the fact than im against war. I'd pull out canadian troops out of afghanistan and iraq. I believe the army is a big waste of money.

whoever wants peace, prepare for war
-vegetius

i'm always amused by people who think military isnt necessary

i suppose being a slave is being preferable to war

What's wrong with Michelle Obama? She's quite intelligent in her own right.

Obama's entire first term is going to be characterized by the massive amounts of spending needed to pull the economy out of this recession. Recessions like this necessitate repeated, sustained government stimulus over several years and he will run massive deficits for his first few years in office, if not more.

I do approve of his recovery plan, if it can be done. Investing in schools and technology infrastructure will go a long way for the next generation. His biggest challenge will be encourage nonpartisan politics in getting that money out into the economy though.

quote:

Originally posted by devnull CEO that were ousted were still granted millions for getting a kicking in the ass goodbye... I really dont believe in golden parachutes as a normal employee, u get fired..u dont even get EI....execs...get fired...u get millions...

Except when you work at a large company, and Unions are capable of crippling the economy by offering laid off workers full pay for one year. Same thing if you ask me.

Obama.

disapprove.

Yay.
- Well Spoken and cavalier
- Educated
- Excellent ambassador for the US of A

Nay.
- Very socialist policies thus far.
- Top down approaches to virtually any crisis occurring as opposed to piece meal solutions.
- His policy mimics Roosevelts 'New Deal'

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper Obama's entire first term is going to be characterized by the massive amounts of spending needed to pull the economy out of this recession. Recessions like this necessitate repeated, sustained government stimulus over several years and he will run massive deficits for his first few years in office, if not more.

I'd argue that the solution to this recession is not more taxpayers money being infused to the situation, but a change in social consciousness. How do you do that? You don't. Decrease corporate taxes. Destabilize unions. Unfortunately there will be job losses, and companies will go bust, but its a natural deflationary process.

ie. bailing out banks, does not increase lending because people are far more conservative spenders than they were 2 years ago and are less likely to make purchases requiring big loans. Not to mention banks are less likely to give out loans.

Re: recessions are also shifts in consumer mindsets with the economy being a function of it.

i'm also curious to know if obama has balls for foreign policy

so far, i've seen nothing that he'll have the balls to take on morons like ahmajewhatever, kim jong il and rest of the loonies

quote:

Originally posted by Yohan whoever wants peace, prepare for war -vegetius i'm always amused by people who think military isnt necessary i suppose being a slave is being preferable to war

how can a $10B/month be justified when a country is almost crumbling. $10B/month could do wonders to HELP the american people.

Most "dangerous" countries are pretty far from the US and their threats are somewhat limited. So why spending more on army than helping your country build itself to thrive

Has Canada been under direct thread in the last 10 years..not really, yet we sucked up to push plans and kept sending troops...to please mighty bush in favors of other issue (politicking at its best)

I seriously believe in mind ur business and you wont be someone's enemy.

Obama rocks.

Let's see what happens

quote:

Originally posted by devnull how can a $10B/month be justified when a country is almost crumbling. $10B/month could do wonders to HELP the american people. Most "dangerous" countries are pretty far from the US and their threats are somewhat limited. So why spending more on army than helping your country build itself to thrive Has Canada been under direct thread in the last 10 years..not really, yet we sucked up to push plans and kept sending troops...to please mighty bush in favors of other issue (politicking at its best) I seriously believe in mind ur business and you wont be someone's enemy.

war is diplomacy by other means
-clausewitz

in international diplomacy, your words mean shit if you cannot back it up

international diplomacy is thuggery at its finest, despite all the honeyed words

quote:

Originally posted by feelgood Except when you work at a large company, and Unions are capable of crippling the economy by offering laid off workers full pay for one year. Same thing if you ask me.

unfortunately, unions are a protection from the 70s 80s 90s that dont work anymore and are simply crippling the system. Unions have fought for decades to obtain better rights and salaries for employees that they will die before relinquishing power. We need to go back to...u get paid what ur worth... Looking at the US Auto crisis/bailout...the unions have made some concessions...but not enough (not to say that more should be done...ie bond holders taking a hit too, etc).

I mean, how can one justify paying $25-50+/hour an assembly employee... its repetitive and specialized work when others making jeans or other clothes are payed $10 an hour and fear loosing their job to other countries.

quote:

Originally posted by devnull unfortunately, unions are a protection from the 70s 80s 90s that dont work anymore and are simply crippling the system. Unions have fought for decades to obtain better rights and salaries for employees that they will die before relinquishing power. We need to go back to...u get paid what ur worth... Looking at the US Auto crisis/bailout...the unions have made some concessions...but not enough (not to say that more should be done...ie bond holders taking a hit too, etc).

bingo.

free market ftw.

quote:

Originally posted by Yohan i'm also curious to know if obama has balls for foreign policy so far, i've seen nothing that he'll have the balls to take on morons like ahmajewhatever, kim jong il and rest of the loonies

foreign policy, although somewhat important should be of minimal priority when you need to fix things at home.


Which one would you do first, helping a neighbor build a basement or fixing a leaky pipe at home?......
IMHO fix whats yours and then help others next. although selfish, i think its the best course of action

quote:

Originally posted by feelgood bingo. free market ftw.

hehe...not so much

again, there is too leftism and rightism.
On one side, you get the green card and can do whatever you want (deregulation, see Enron scandal and fannie mae/Freddie mac) and on the other side you get too much regulation which stiffles innovation and creativity...

I believe in moderation. I've done some research lately on Fannie/Freddie and I saw how greediness and green cards can lead to disasters. I prefer stability and decent growth than constant change and stupid growth that cant be maintained

Obama is moving quickly.....
Obama to close Guatama Bay

quote:

Originally posted by devnull foreign policy, although somewhat important should be of minimal priority when you need to fix things at home. Which one would you do first, helping a neighbor build a basement or fixing a leaky pipe at home?...... IMHO fix whats yours and then help others next. although selfish, i think its the best course of action

yes... we all saw what US's isolationist policies got them into early to mid 20th century

if you got something your neighbour wants, your neighbour will try to take it, either directly or indirectly if you cannot defend yourself

there's a reason why Russia is trying to invest in military, because some slant eyes with need for resources is eyeing Siberia

Canada is already being tried to dicked around with. Yanks think NW passage is international waters, despite being in Canadian Arctic. Even Denmark wants a piece of Hans Island, for potential oil and other natural resources

what about moral responsibilities? do you think places like darfur and rwanda required/requires international intervention?

quote:

Originally posted by devnull Re: socialism, i think organizations benefited too much in the last few years, I believe it is time for average people to have some type of living.

Oh sweet jesus. Organizations and employees are on opposite sides of the market equation; reduce the profits available to one and you inevitably reduce the wages available to the other. That's just how a market works. The other alternative - higher income taxes - always hurt the middle class the most.

How many failed attempts at socialism will it take before people understand that it is impossible to raise the average quality of life using taxpayer money? When have "average" people ever benefited from these policies?

quote:

Originally posted by devnull What i meant re: flaming is no bitching re: obama.

Ah, so it's okay to bitch about Bush in here, but not Obama. How wonderfully mature.

quote:

...if you look at how US was perceived at the end of Clinton's era to post Bush era, the US is much more hated in comparison.

I would love to see your evidence for this. Only Democrats seem to believe it.

quote:

...That is based on the fact than im against war.

*sigh*

Nobody is for war any more than they are for abortions. They simply accept it as an imperfect but necessary solution to specific (rare) problems, when the only alternatives are worse.

quote:

Ie. If the US was to spend the money spent on Iraq war on its health system, it would be much closer to the canadian system or better

Wow. Just, wow. Canadians are flocking across the border in droves because they're unable to get timely medical treatment here, more and more people are clamoring every year for the ban on private care to be lifted in Canada, and your solution to stability in the middle east is to "improve" American health care to be more like Canada's. Have you been living under a rock since the 80s?

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