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Courts Rule: Vaccines do not cause Autism

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...21201792&s_pos=

Not that this is something new to the sane community at large, and not that it will stop those desperately seeking a cause (and someone to blame) for their children's medical condition, but at least now there's something fairly significant on the books.

Definitely good news.

The vaccines-cause-autism crowd is really kind of sad. It's really a telling example of how bad we humans so often are at seriously considering the possibility that we are wrong... the weight of the scientific evidence is staggering, and yet these people continue to believe this nonsense conjured up by a fraud and a plagiarist. Of course, it doesn't help that there are tons of people out there who would like to make a tidy profit off of these poor folks' misdirected anger.

Jenny McCarthy says you're wrong



And who could disagree with her....

Bullshit. The battle is far from over. As long as the autism is on the rise, it will never be over.

quote:

"This is a real victory for children," said Philadelphia pediatrician and vaccine expert Paul Offit, in a statement issued by the vaccine advocacy group Every Child by Two.

^^^ Thats just a fucking retarded statement. How did the children win??? Did the vaccines cure their autism?

This world is retarded. Always was, always will be.

EDIT: Looks like the government hopes to put this autism problem in a pile of who-gives-a-fuck.

But really:

quote:

James Moody, a lawyer advising the plaintiffs and director of SafeMinds, a research and advocacy think tank that endorses a vaccine-autism link, predicted that the autism cases would be appealed and eventually wind up in civil court, where plaintiffs could make their cases to a jury and get access to government documents. "The government does not fund the science to show a connection between vaccines and autism, and the courts say there isn't enough evidence to show a connection," Moody said. "When the vaccine court says you haven't met the standard of evidence, that is a call for more science, not that this controversy is at an end."

^^^ Many people just dont understand how difficult it is for families that have a sibling affected by autism. Especially when it doesnt make sense how it came about "naturally". It is not natural. Government and medicine dont give a crap about us or people affected with autism. They are just covering their backs. They research vaccines and brag on using mercury-based preservatives, campaigning for mandatory vaccinations, but they dont research autism. Well, of course, why should they? Why should the bureaucratic instritution like government start caring and taking up the research of autism, to open up and do something for the benefit of people, society, environment?

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium ^^^ Thats just a fucking retarded statement. How did the children win??? Did the vaccines cure their autism?

The "victory" is that hopefully this will mean more kids get vaccinated. The thought that 1 in 12 aren't being vaccinated and are being unnecessarily exposed to diseases that they don't need to get is a shame. The science has always been there showing that there is no link, but to a scared parent, anecdote and hearsay have continued to remain more powerful. Now there is another tangible reason to give parents as to why they should not worry about vaccinations.

quote:

^^^ Many people just dont understand how difficult it is for families that have a sibling affected by autism. Especially when it doesnt make sense how it came about "naturally". It is not natural. Government and medicine dont give a crap about us or people affected with autism. They are just covering their backs. They research vaccines and brag on using mercury-based preservatives, campaigning for mandatory vaccinations, but they dont research autism. Well, of course, why should they? Why should the bureaucratic instritution like government start caring and taking up the research of autism, to open up and do something for the benefit of people, society, environment?

That is absolute and complete bullshit. Do a quick pubmed search on "Autism" or "Autistic spectrum disorder" and tell me there's no research going on besides that to "cover their ass." People in the medical/scientific community have kids with autism, just like those outside of it do. Every young medical student is taught about autism and how devastating it can be on a family. That is not the point of this ruling. The point of this ruling is that those using vaccines as an "excuse" or as something to blame for their kid's condition is not based in fact and is harmful in that it has left many kids unvaccinated.

The search for the cause of autism will continue, but there is none, not a shred, of scientific evidence saying that it is from vaccines. Continuing to not vaccinate kids because their parents are scared about something they don't need to be scared about has been a problem that will continue, but hopefully begin to subside.

Despite this, 'official' ruling there are natural alternatives to government vaccines which don't necessarily protect people properly anyways.
It's a crystal-ball concoction souped up to try and protect us from future sickness.
Problem is, at least here in Canada, they've always managed to miss the mark at least recently in the last couple of years.

I'm not saying vaccines aren't right in principal but I'm going to suggest at least protect yourself with a good natural alternative if not for the sake of others around you.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Despite this, 'official' ruling there are natural alternatives to government vaccines which don't necessarily protect people properly anyways. It's a crystal-ball concoction souped up to try and protect us from future sickness. Problem is, at least here in Canada, they've always managed to miss the mark at least recently in the last couple of years. I'm not saying vaccines aren't right in principal but I'm going to suggest at least protect yourself with a good natural alternative if not for the sake of others around you.

"Natural" alternative? What, just get the disease and build your immunity that way? That's the only "natural" alternative to vaccination I can think of that would give you immunity...or do you have some leafy green vegetable/obscure Asian berry diet that makes you immune to disease?

People actually believe vaccines cause autism!?

I can't even imagine how hard it must be to have an autist child (I know one, and his mother has not fully recovered from the news), but this is just insane. These people would rather leave their children vulnerable to measles because of an unproven risk that it may cause autism!? And people are actually paying attention to politicians and celebrities?

Wow. Just, wow.

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono The "victory" is that hopefully this will mean more kids get vaccinated. The thought that 1 in 12 aren't being vaccinated and are being unnecessarily exposed to diseases that they don't need to get is a shame.

Additionally, children who have health conditions that make them ineligible for vaccination and rely on herd immunity are rather gravely threatened by this anti-vaccine crusade. Children in day care settings who aren't yet old enough to be vaccinated are also unnecessarily endangered by the presence of older children who are unvaccinated because of their parents' misguided fears.

A better victory in court--and one I hope to see--would be one holding the parents of an unvaccinated carrier child liable for injuries to other children caused by their negligent choice not to vaccinate.

Re: Courts Rule: Vaccines do not cause Autism

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...21201792&s_pos= Not that this is something new to the sane community at large

Indeed not. As you pointed out to Magnetonium, the peer-reviewed evidence simply didn't support the link at all, and now we have a legal ruling on the matter.

Here's another interesting piece to add on:

quote:

MMR doctor Andrew Wakefield fixed data on autism Brian Deer THE doctor who sparked the scare over the safety of the MMR vaccine for children changed and misreported results in his research, creating the appearance of a possible link with autism, a Sunday Times investigation has found. Confidential medical documents and interviews with witnesses have established that Andrew Wakefield manipulated patients� data, which triggered fears that the MMR triple vaccine to protect against measles, mumps and rubella was linked to the condition. The research was published in February 1998 in an article in The Lancet medical journal. It claimed that the families of eight out of 12 children attending a routine clinic at the hospital had blamed MMR for their autism, and said that problems came on within days of the jab. The team also claimed to have discovered a new inflammatory bowel disease underlying the children�s conditions. However, our investigation, confirmed by evidence presented to the General Medical Council (GMC), reveals that: In most of the 12 cases, the children�s ailments as described in The Lancet were different from their hospital and GP records. Although the research paper claimed that problems came on within days of the jab, in only one case did medical records suggest this was true, and in many of the cases medical concerns had been raised before the children were vaccinated. Hospital pathologists, looking for inflammatory bowel disease, reported in the majority of cases that the gut was normal. This was then reviewed and the Lancet paper showed them as abnormal. Despite involving just a dozen children, the 1998 paper�s impact was extraordinary. After its publication, rates of inoculation fell from 92% to below 80%. Populations acquire �herd immunity� from measles when more than 95% of people have been vaccinated. Last week official figures showed that 1,348 confirmed cases of measles in England and Wales were reported last year, compared with 56 in 1998. Two children have died of the disease. With two professors, John Walker-Smith and Simon Murch, Wakefield is defending himself against allegations of serious professional misconduct brought by the GMC. The charges relate to ethical aspects of the project, not its findings. All three men deny any misconduct. Through his lawyers, Wakefield this weekend denied the issues raised by our investigation, but declined to comment further. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/li...icle5683671.ece

another day, another crazy conspiracy theory put to bed.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN another day, another crazy conspiracy theory put to bed.

If only a government ruling from three independent sources backed by solid scientific evidence could do such a thing...

...unfortunately we all know this will continue.

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono ...unfortunately we all know this will continue.

yeah, can't fault your reasoning there

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono If only a government ruling from three independent sources backed by solid scientific evidence could do such a thing... ...unfortunately we all know this will continue.

Sometimes, not even too much is enough.

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono "Natural" alternative? What, just get the disease and build your immunity that way? That's the only "natural" alternative to vaccination I can think of that would give you immunity...or do you have some leafy green vegetable/obscure Asian berry diet that makes you immune to disease?

What's the difference between getting infected with or without the vaccine?
There are definitely ways to boost your immune system, talk to any certified naturopath.
My point was that even with the vaccine shot, you're not immune to new strains and it doesn't prevent one from becoming a carrier.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r There are definitely ways to boost your immune system, talk to any certified naturopath.

i did speak to my naturopath; she said to hold two barley leaves aloft during the full moon and repeat the phrase "naturopaths are failed doctors" 3 times while patting my stomach.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i did speak to my naturopath; she said to hold two barley leaves aloft during the full moon and repeat the phrase "naturopaths are failed doctors" 3 times while patting my stomach, while watching The Secret.

fixed

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r What's the difference between getting infected with or without the vaccine? There are definitely ways to boost your immune system, talk to any certified naturopath. My point was that even with the vaccine shot, you're not immune to new strains and it doesn't prevent one from becoming a carrier.

The difference is that with a vaccine (with the rare exception when using a live vaccine) you're not going to get the full-blown illness. That's a pretty important difference when the disease might either kill you or leave you disabled for life. With the exception of influenza, which has a couple unique properties that allow it to modify itself rather quickly, most viruses are either stable or change in ways that partial immunity from previous infection still offers benefit. That's why adults don't get sick as often or as severely as kids. We aren't necessarily getting the same diseases over and over, but the "new" ones we do get are close enough that it doesn't matter.

I'd love to know what some of these "immune boosters" are and see some evidence to back them. I'm not being condescending, I'd just really like to see a scientifically proven immune booster.

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono The difference is that with a vaccine (with the rare exception when using a live vaccine) you're not going to get the full-blown illness. That's a pretty important difference when the disease might either kill you or leave you disabled for life. With the exception of influenza, which has a couple unique properties that allow it to modify itself rather quickly, most viruses are either stable or change in ways that partial immunity from previous infection still offers benefit. That's why adults don't get sick as often or as severely as kids. We aren't necessarily getting the same diseases over and over, but the "new" ones we do get are close enough that it doesn't matter. I'd love to know what some of these "immune boosters" are and see some evidence to back them. I'm not being condescending, I'd just really like to see a scientifically proven immune booster.

No worries Neo, I'm not here to knock 'traditional' medicine nor do I hug trees and shun ambulances.
I've been in the care of hospitals a few times and I have to say, our Toronto medical community are some of the best in the world!

Here:
http://www.ccnm.edu/

This is where we take our kids.

and here:
http://www.herbological.com/images/downloads/HH2.pdf

Cheers...

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r No worries Neo, I'm not here to knock 'traditional' medicine nor do I hug trees and shun ambulances. I've been in the care of hospitals a few times and I have to say, our Toronto medical community are some of the best in the world! Here: http://www.ccnm.edu/ This is where we take our kids. and here: http://www.herbological.com/images/downloads/HH2.pdf Cheers...

Cool. I'm going to look at those.

I'm not trying to knock so-called "alternative" medicine. I realize that there are many, many things we have yet to learn about how our bodies work and react and I know that the medicine I practice doesn't have all the answers. My mind set is; "if it doesn't hurt you and it makes you feel better, do it!"

I guess I'm a bit miffed right now because this whole immunization thing has been a BIG deal for a while and a lot of the rhetoric came from practitioners of "natural" medicine. When I first got into medicine, I had a horrific experience with a young mother with cancer who decided to go the herbal route and turned a benign, operable mass into a tumor that left three little girls without a mother. It still makes me angry to this day that she was talked into herbs instead of curative traditional treatment. So...I'm trying to remain open-minded with other medical practices, just as long as it doesn't give someone false confidence in beating or avoiding disease or overtly injures them.

Re: Courts Rule: Vaccines do not cause Autism

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...21201792&s_pos= Not that this is something new to the sane community at large, and not that it will stop those desperately seeking a cause (and someone to blame) for their children's medical condition, but at least now there's something fairly significant on the books.

I guess by your definition of sanity I would be insane, which is kind of ironic. If that descriptor fits anyone, I think it would be more appropriate to apply it to those who aren't skeptical of the claims made by institutions who's interests are driven primarily by profit, and externalities aren't much of a concern if at all. My sister is a doctor, a pediatrician to be more precise. I have arguments with her all the time regarding vaccination. And it always comes down to "this is what my text books taught me in med school" and therefore "what the medical community thinks at large." So I challenged my 'sane' sister to do some research on where the funding for text books comes from and the history of FDA in context of their [direct and indirect] relation with the pharmaceutical industry and the sector of corporate America manufacturing additives and synthetic alternatives to natural foods and ingredients. I went as far as to refer a few books to her and actual documentaries made by dissenting professionals in the medical community to who go more in depth of the scientific aspect of things. She never got back to me on it, and it didn't even seem to make any effort with some of the material I referred her to as a start. Another aspect I asked her to pay attention to where the research was done, who funded it, and to take note of the relation between the private and public sector in this regard. Of course she can check any sources she wants and is by no means limited to the source material I gave her... I never heard back from her about the subject. I like how everything that's critical of the corporate world, government, the system in general, or any large institutions people are [almost completely] dependent on, institutions with a history reflective of no genuine concern, in fact, on many occasions, quite the opposite, automatically results in labels like "insane," "radical," or "conspiracy theory" and other such [misapplied] and marginalizing terms meant to end discussion and function basically as an ad hominem attack as opposed to actually paying attention to the content. People and their absurd insecurities can be rather annoying, but after a certain point, there's nothing else to do but be amused. Because there's no point in saying anything or presenting any information or arguments, and there's certainly no point in getting upset about how sad most member of this species are. You can't feel too bad for people when they choose to be that way, regardless of how concerned you many or may not be about their general well being. Anyways, I was just checking PDD after ages and it's funny how things are exactly the same. For some reason, I guess because this is regarding children, I felt the nagging urge to say something. Take it easy.

[EDIT]
@ Goundhogboy: I've always found your sig to be rather irnoic as the guy you're quoting is clearly "insane" by what I assume would be your definition of sanity, judging by your posts. You know, this dude right here:

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono Cool. I'm going to look at those. I'm not trying to knock so-called "alternative" medicine. I realize that there are many, many things we have yet to learn about how our bodies work and react and I know that the medicine I practice doesn't have all the answers. My mind set is; "if it doesn't hurt you and it makes you feel better, do it!" I guess I'm a bit miffed right now because this whole immunization thing has been a BIG deal for a while and a lot of the rhetoric came from practitioners of "natural" medicine. When I first got into medicine, I had a horrific experience with a young mother with cancer who decided to go the herbal route and turned a benign, operable mass into a tumor that left three little girls without a mother. It still makes me angry to this day that she was talked into herbs instead of curative traditional treatment. So...I'm trying to remain open-minded with other medical practices, just as long as it doesn't give someone false confidence in beating or avoiding disease or overtly injures them.

Understand totally.
There's a LOT of confused people out there and one really has to do their homework before deciding to go such a route.
Obviously your example is of the confused variety.
I don't understand some people who are of the mentality of, "OOooo it's 'natural' so it must be better!"
It's a nightmare for consumers since the marketing of such things is such a gray area as well - what's '100% Natural' mean?
What does 'organic' mean? etc., etc.
I know I'm paint with a very large brush but truly, there needs to be some oversight when it comes the whole 'natural'/organic/holistic route.
Personally, we're very careful but at the same time, we've seen the benefits and understand that it has merit, but we do do our homework...

Re: Re: Courts Rule: Vaccines do not cause Autism

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I guess by your definition of sanity I would be insane, which is kind of ironic. If that descriptor fits anyone, I think it would be more appropriate to apply it to those who aren't skeptical of the claims made by institutions who's interests are driven primarily by profit, and externalities aren't much of a concern if at all. My sister is a doctor, a pediatrician to be more precise. I have arguments with her all the time regarding vaccination. And it always comes down to "this is what my text books taught me in med school" and therefore "what the medical community thinks at large." So I challenged my 'sane' sister to do some research on where the funding for text books comes from and the history of FDA in context of their [direct and indirect] relation with the pharmaceutical industry and the sector of corporate America manufacturing additives and synthetic alternatives to natural foods and ingredients. I went as far as to refer a few books to her and actual documentaries made by dissenting professionals in the medical community to who go more in depth of the scientific aspect of things. She never got back to me on it, and it didn't even seem to make any effort with some of the material I referred her to as a start. Another aspect I asked her to pay attention to where the research was done, who funded it, and to take note of the relation between the private and public sector in this regard. Of course she can check any sources she wants and is by no means limited to the source material I gave her... I never heard back from her about the subject. I like how everything that's critical of the corporate world, government, the system in general, or any large institutions people are [almost completely] dependent on, institutions with a history reflective of no genuine concern, in fact, on many occasions, quite the opposite, automatically results in labels like "insane," "radical," or "conspiracy theory" and other such [misapplied] and marginalizing terms meant to end discussion and function basically as an ad hominem attack as opposed to actually paying attention to the content. People and their absurd insecurities can be rather annoying, but after a certain point, there's nothing else to do but be amused. Because there's no point in saying anything or presenting any information or arguments, and there's certainly no point in getting upset about how sad most member of this species are. You can't feel too bad for people when they choose to be that way, regardless of how concerned you many or may not be about their general well being. Anyways, I was just checking PDD after ages and it's funny how things are exactly the same. For some reason, I guess because this is regarding children, I felt the nagging urge to say something. Take it easy. [EDIT] @ Goundhogboy: I've always found your sig to be rather irnoic as the guy you're quoting is clearly "insane" by what I assume would be your definition of sanity, judging by your posts. You know, this dude right here:

interesting, shaolin is also an expert on all things medical! must be tiring knowing so much about so many things, especially something like med science.

Shaolin, I missed your posts, man!!! Good to know you're still here.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Shaolin, I missed your posts, man!!! Good to know you're still here.

yeah, you two can hang out together and NOT get polio or smallpox or tetanus or measles because the evil corporations make money from forcing you to live healthy lives. those bastards.

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