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-- How and why I use two computers for live spectrum and waveform analysis

How and why I use two computers for live spectrum and waveform analysis

By popular demand, here is my method of using two computers to live spectrum analysis and waveform analysis.

Its easy. Here goes...

Keep in mind, this is how I have it setup, YMMV, but the concepts remain the same. I'm always available for questions.

2 computers:
One, is my main DAW which is a Mac Pro running Logic 8 using a MOTU 24 I/O. So I have 24 analog in and 24 analog out.

Two, is a Dell PC running Ableton Live using an M-Audio Delta 66 4 in 4 out audio interface.

On the Mac, I set up Logic to output everything to TWO stereo outputs on the 24 I/O. One stereo out goes to my monitors, the second stereo out goes to the inputs on the M-Audio card.

You will also need some type of Spectrum Analyser plugin (Voxengo SPAN, RND Inspector, Izotope Ozone, etc.) and s(M)exoscope from smartelectronix (get it here).
There will be installed on the Secondary PC for use by Ableton.

First, make the physical connections.


1. Connect the output 1 & 2 of the MOTU to your monitors like normal.
2. Connect the output of the MOTU 24 I/O 3 & 4 to the Input 1 & 2 on the M-Audio card, which is the audio interface for the secondary PC.



Then set it up in Logic. In order to set this up in Logic 8, do the following:


1. Create an AUX bus and label it Main Out. This is the output that sends a signal to your monitors.
2. Set the input to Bus 60
3. Set the Output to Output 1-2
4. Create another AUX bus and label it Monitor Out. This is the output that sends a signal to the second computer.
5. Set the input to Bus 60
6. Set the Output to Output 3-4



Once this is done, Bus 60 becomes your primary output. Ant track you want send to both the monitors and the secondary PC must be routed to output Bus 60.

Next, set up Ableton on the secondary PC.


1. Open Ableton and create an audio track with the inputs being 1 & 2 on the M-Audio card.
2. Turn on Input Monitoring on that audio track.
3. Add your Spectrum Analyzer plugin on that track (I use Ozone for this purpose)
4. Add the s(M)exoscope plugin to analyze the waveform in real time.



At that point, the 24 I/O is outputting to both 1-2 and 3-4. 3-4 goes into M-Audio 1-2 where Ableton reads the audio data and the plugins apply their processing (spectrum analysis and real-time waveform analysis).

That's pretty much about it. You may want to set up a template, as I have, so you don't have to wire all this up each time you start a new song. I have this all incorporated into my default EDM template which has a number of other things set up the way I like them (sends, default plugins ,etc).

If you look at my studio picture at the bottom of this post, you can see the two 23 inch Apple Cinema Displays are being used for Logic, and the off to the right is a smaller Dell monitor that has the Ozone Plugin and s(M)exoscope running on it.

Now, I have taken it one step further, where I actually have a pair of the outputs on the M-Audio card going back into one of the inputs on my MOTU 24 I/O. I then use MIDI Time Code to sync the two sequencers. This way, I can actually use Ableton as an outboard sampler. This allows me to use Live's superior audio editing capabilities, but still work in the Logic Environment without the overhead of Rewire and running two DAW packages on the same system.

Obviously, this is not limited to my two particular Audio Interfaces or my two DAW Packages. You can you this with any two DAW packages or Audio Interfaces.

Let me know if you have questions.

Here is the picture of the studio as I have it set up:

One thing i dont understand, why not just put the analyzer on the master channel ?

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle One thing i dont understand, why not just put the analyzer on the master channel ?

You can, there is certainly nothing wrong with doing it that way. My one main reason for this is screen real estate. I wanted an "at-a-glance" solution. I did not want my analyzers being covered up or taking screen real estate away from my other windows. Even with dual 23 inch displays, I still manage to use up every available square inch.

In addition, I use the secondary PC for more than just analysis. I use it as an outboard sampler as mentioned above, so it has multiple uses.

The secondary audio PC used to be my primary audio PC before I bought the Mac Pro. I use the second PC for other, non-music related tasks as well. Internet, listening to music, just regular PC stuff. Its also quite handy to pull up the documentation for a particular plugin or feature and have it open on the second PC, while I mess with it on my primary DAW. Saves me from having to switch tasks on the Mac.

OT - what are your monitor stands dude?

quote:

Originally posted by Ry Thomas OT - what are your monitor stands dude?

Argosy X-Stands, $249. Perfect for landscape oriented monitors. You can probably use the classic stands if you have portrait oriented monitors.

http://www.argosyconsole.com/html_i...ds_XStands.html

Cheers mate, nice one

completely off topic,

but where did you get that desk?

cheers

Studio RTA Producer Station without the top.

http://www.studiorta.com/catalog/de...?catalog_id=393

There is one particularly poignant reason why this is a CRAP idea:
You're pushing your master through the poor AD/DA on your M-Audio sound card!

You should have used SPDIF!

You could have just got another video card ($20) and connected that third monitor to your main PC. In regards to using Ableton as a sampler, you could have sold the old PC, used that money to get more RAM/CPU on your main computer and rewired Ableton.

I think you've really overcomplicated things and its not a very good solution.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm There is one particularly poignant reason why this is a CRAP idea: You're pushing your master through the poor AD/DA on your M-Audio sound card!

I think you misunderstand. My master signal is NOT going through the M-Audio card. My MOTU pushes TWO copies of the signal out, one to my monitors and one to the second PC. I dont need an expensive sound card for simple spectrum and waveform analysis. A waste of money is buying a >$500 sound card for a simple task such as this.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm You should have used SPDIF!

If you read my original post you'd see that I use the MOTU 24 I/O, which is 24 ANALOG in/out. There is no S/PDIF on this audio interface or, believe me, I would have used that instead.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm You could have just got another video card ($20) and connected that third monitor to your main PC.

That situation doesn't work for me, because Mac Pro's only have 3 PCIe slots and 1 PCI-X slot. The PCI-X slot is taken up by a dual-head video card. The MOTU 24 I/O is a PCIe based interface, so there goes 1 of the PCIe slots. Then I have 2 UAD cards, so there goes my other 2 PCIe slots.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm In regards to using Ableton as a sampler, you could have sold the old PC, used that money to get more RAM/CPU on your main computer and rewired Ableton.

RAM and CPU are not a problem on the Mac Pro. I have 2 dual core 2.66 Ghz XEON processors and 4 GB RAM. That's plenty of power. I'm running Tiger, which is a 32 bit OS, so there's no point in getting more than 4 GB until I upgrade to Leopard (64 bit OS), which I have no plans to anytime soon.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm I think you've really overcomplicated things and its not a very good solution.

If you read the original thread, you'll see that the secondary PC has OTHER functions as well. Internet, documentation, music, random other crap that I'd rather keep off of my main DAW.

I never suggested that anyone else do it this way. Someone asked me to post my way of doing this and that's what I did, plain and simple. I was originally going to just have anyone who was interested in how I did it PM me, but a few people asked me to start this thread.

The original thread is here:
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...6&forumid=48&s=

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J That situation doesn't work for me, because Mac Pro's only have 3 PCIe slots and 1 PCI-X slot. The PCI-X slot is taken up by a dual-head video card. The MOTU 24 I/O is a PCIe based interface, so there goes 1 of the PCIe slots. Then I have 2 UAD cards, so there goes my other 2 PCIe slots.

Solution: get a fking PC noob!




jk Eric, thanks for the post looks like a productive setup! Really good too because (as you pointed out) you can keep internet/email etc. off your DAW

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J I think you misunderstand. etc.....

Fair enough... Still seems a bit bizarre to me though!

As for everyone else... If you want to keep all your dodgy shit off your work PC, run it in a virtual machine. VirtualBox is free and very good - performance is as good as VMWare (almost as fast as running directly on the hardware) and it has "seamless" mode, which VMWare doesn't!

Sounds pretty convoluted to me too. But whatever works for you I guess!

I use a small app called maxivista which allows you to use your laptop as an additional display to your desk top via the network. Pretty handy for monitoring levels and spectrum during mixing.

Oh yea, despite the name is works on XP

quote:

Originally posted by JmanNZ Oh yea, despite the name is works on XP

The name would come from the meaning of the word "vista" before Microsoft came along and produced this garbage... "vista" = "view"

So "maxiview", makes sense

quote:

Originally posted by daveth The name would come from the meaning of the word "vista" before Microsoft came along and produced this garbage... "vista" = "view" So "maxiview", makes sense

Well we learn something new every day

Eric j, did you make that keyboard? was it worth the effort? Im thinking about doing something similar but wonder if by the time I have done it I could have simply memorised all the short cuts... your thoughts? thanks

Why is your mac keyboard all fruity?

No, its a custom keyboard from a company called LogicKeyboard. They make color coded keyboards for a variety of applications, inclusing Logic, PT, Cubase, and lots of other applications (music and others like PhotoShop).

The color coding is keyboard shortcuts. You can either get a keyboard color-coded to the default keyboard shortcuts or get the extended keyboard layout, which is the one I have.

Their website is here:

http://www.logickeyboard.com/shop/frontpage.html

they look cool, its a shame they don't do one for Ableton. I know you can buy stickers for Ableton but I would prefer an actual custom one. Oh well, its not going to make me a better producer so whatever

That desk is sweet.

quote:

Their website is here: http://www.logickeyboard.com/shop/frontpage.html

Wow... $180 for a regular keyboard with colored keys. You are obviously doing well in the money department.

quote:

Originally posted by Spire Wow... $180 for a regular keyboard with colored keys.

Got it for $80 on sale a while ago. The standard Mac keyboard is $50, so it was a pretty good deal. Their prices have gone up since then.

quote:

Originally posted by Spire You are obviously doing well in the money department.

Well I'm not some teenager with a part time job. I have a house, family, career, etc, so this is where my spare cash goes, into the studio.

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