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Roman Catholic Church ... has issues

This shall become the official thread related to the odd developments in the Roman Catholic Church. There are always many amusing ones.

Couldn't help but note these four articles recently that are really hurting the Roman Catholic Church. I bookmarked them recently, but after reading the latest one, I couldn't help but notice the proximity and relation between all four. Well, at least I think so. More reasons to stop blindly following religion, I suppose ... You can still belive in your God - but escape the idiocy of the religious institutions for Christ's sake. Your donations are going to waste - in particularly if you are a devout patron of Roman Catholic Church.

Read these and have a laughter while you're at it. While others you will find bizarre and ridiculous.

http://in.reuters.com/article/lifes...E5282ME20090309

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Vatican paper: Washing machine liberated women most VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Feminists of the world sit down before you read this. The Vatican newspaper says that perhaps the washing machine did more to liberate women in the 20th century than the pill or the right to work. The submission was made in a lengthy article titled "The Washing Machine and the Liberation of Women - Put in the Detergent, Close the Lid and Relax." The article was printed at the weekend in l'Osservatore Romano, the semi-official Vatican newspaper, to mark international Women's Day on Sunday. "What in the 20th century did more to liberate Western women?," asks the article, which was written by a woman. "The debate is heated. Some say the pill, some say abortion rights and some the right to work outside the home. Some, however, dare to go further: the washing machine," it says. It then goes on to talk about the history of washing machines, starting with a rudimentary model in 1767 in Germany and ending up with today's trendy launderettes where a woman can have a cappuccino with friends while the tumbler turns.

This one is absolutely RETARDED. A nine-year-old girl is RAPED and ABUSED, and obviously too young for a child - which can kill her or weaken her, while she is denied abortion and to top it all off - everyone involved in helping this girl is excommunicated EXCEPT for the very man who ABUSED her in the first place. AGH, the irony!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...im-1640165.html

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Brazil rocked by abortion for 9-year-old rape victim Church excommunicates mother and doctors � but not accused rapist Declaring that "life must always be protected", a senior Vatican cleric has defended the Catholic Church's decision to excommunicate the mother and doctors of a nine-year-old rape victim who had a life-saving abortion in Brazil. Cardinal Giovanni Batista Re, who heads the Pontifical Commission for Latin America, told reporters that although the girl fell pregnant after apparently being abused by her stepfather, her twins had, "the right to live, and could not be eliminated". In an interview with the Italian newspaper, La Stampa, the cardinal added: "It is a sad case but the real problem is that the twins conceived were two innocent persons. Life must always be protected." Related articles * The washing machine 'liberated women' Police believe the girl was sexually assaulted for years by her stepfather, possibly since she was six. That she was four months pregnant with twins emerged only after she was taken to hospital complaining of severe stomach pains. The controversy represents a PR nightmare for the Vatican. The unnamed girl's mother and doctors were excommunicated for agreeing to Wednesday's emergency abortion yet the Church has not taken formal steps against the stepfather, who is in custody. Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, the conservative regional archbishop for Pernambuco where the girl was rushed to hospital, has said that the man would not be thrown out of the Church, because although he had allegedly committed "a heinous crime", the Church took the view that "the abortion, the elimination of an innocent life, was more serious". The case has set off fierce debate in Brazil, where abortion is permitted only in cases of rape or a medical emergency. Brazil is one of the most populous Catholic countries, but conservative attitudes in rural areas are strongly at odds with the relatively progressive public view of abortion in major cities. Even the President, Luiz Ignacio Lula da Silva, has waded into the row. "As a Christian and a Catholic, I deeply regret that a bishop of the Catholic Church has such a conservative attitude," he said "The doctors did what had to be done: save the life of a girl of nine years old. In this case, the medical profession was more right than the Church." One of the doctors involved in the abortion, Rivaldo Albuquerque, has raised the prospect of public clashes at his local church, telling Globo, the nation's main TV network, that he would keep going to mass there, regardless of the archbishop's order. The young girl at the centre of the case escaped excommunication only because she is still a child in the eyes of Church authorities. The stepfather, who is 23, was arrested last week, apparently trying to escape to another region of the country. Police say he is also suspected of abusing the girl's handicapped 14-year-old sister. He is in protective custody, and if convicted faces up to 15 years in prison.

Rome is apparently AGAINST condoms and rather stupidly expects that Africans will easily and dutifully follow abstinence (which we all know doesnt work very well - ESPECIALLY in Africa). Oh, the Pope thinks condoms actually INCREASE the problems! How dumb. Not to mention the risk to health and spread of AIDS.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7950671.stm

quote:

The French foreign ministry has voiced "sharp concern" following the Pope's rejection of condom use to fight Aids. Benedict XVI, who is on a tour of Africa, said handing out condoms only increased the problem of HIV/Aids. The Roman Catholic Church says marital fidelity and sexual abstinence are the best way to prevent the spread of HIV. But France, echoing the reaction of some aid agencies, said it "voices extremely sharp concern over the consequences of [the Pope's comments]". "While it is not up to us to pass judgment on Church doctrine, we consider that such comments are a threat to public health policies and the duty to protect human life," foreign ministry spokesman Eric Chevallier said. 'HIV tragedy' Delphine Mauvenir Pope's visit raises hopes Can Catholicism help Africa? The Pope arrived in Cameroon on Tuesday at the start of his week-long African tour. He urged Christians everywhere to speak out against corruption and abuses of power. "A Christian can never remain silent," he said, after being greeted by President Paul Biya, Cameroon's ruler for the past 26 years. But he sparked controversy by telling reporters that HIV/Aids was "a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which can even increase the problem". The solution lay, he said, in a "spiritual and human awakening" and "friendship for those who suffer". Some activists were dismayed by the approach, saying condoms were one of the few methods proved to stop the spread of HIV. Rebecca Hodes, of the Treatment Action Campaign in South Africa said: "His opposition to condoms conveys that religious dogma is more important to him than the lives of Africans." Some 22 million people are infected with HIV in sub-Saharan Africa, according to UN figures for 2007. This amounts to about two-thirds of the global total. Private meeting Catholic women wave rosaries in Yaounde, Cameroon (18 March 2009) The Pope said Catholicism faced a threat from superstition On Wednesday, the Pope attended a gathering of more than 30 Cameroonian bishops in the capital, Yaounde. He told the bishops they had to preserve traditional African families and protect the country's poor. "In the context of globalisation with which we are all familiar, the church takes a particular interest in those who are most deprived," he said. He said it was the duty of Christians to help to build "a more just world where everyone can live with dignity", the Associated Press reported. The Pope also warned of a threat to the Catholic Church in Cameroon from evangelical movements and from the "growing influence of superstitious forms of religion". Earlier on Wednesday, he held a private meeting with Mr Biya at the presidential palace. The BBC's Caroline Duffield in Yaounde says Mr Biya's consistent electoral victories have been widely condemned as fraudulent. Having spoken out publically against corruption, many Cameroonians will be hoping that the Pope delivered his message in private as well, says our correspondent.

Well, this one you probably already know ... so many wonderful Catholic clergymen are abusing children and women out there! No worries though, Catholic church gets so much money in donations from its blind followers trying to buy out their sins, it has no problems dishing out hundreds of millions of dollars in settlements!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7943368.stm

quote:

Sex claims against US Church rise The number of new claims of sexual abuse made against US Roman Catholic priests rose by 16% to more than 800 last year, a Church report says. It says the Church paid $436m (�313m) in 2008 for abuse cases. Most of the money was used to compensate victims. The study covered almost 200 dioceses and religious orders across the US. It found that more than one in five victims were under the age of 10 when they were abused. Although the number of claims made against the Church rose in 2008, the total cost dropped by 29% compared to the previous year. The Associated Press news agency said 2007 was an unusually high year, when the Archdiocese of Los Angeles began paying a $660m settlement to about 500 people. The annual review tracks progress made in implementing the Charter for the Protection of Children, adopted by US bishops following a scandal in Boston in 2002. Cardinal Francis George of Chicago said the Church was "on the right path" in its quest to better protect "all children in society".

I'm telling you - the world has gone crazy. Long ago.

No one said just cause you call yourself Catholic you're automatically holy.

The fact is the Church is still right about the Theology and therefore I will continue to "blindly follow it and donate money to pay away my sins".

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Originally posted by Alex No one said just cause you call yourself Catholic you're automatically holy. The fact is the Church is still right about the Theology and therefore I will continue to "blindly follow it and donate money to pay away my sins".

Your local Catholic church is doing fine. Its the BIG church that's full of issues, I must rephrase. There are plenty of local churches in my area that I must add do a very good job in maintaining a healthy and vibrant community and they dont shove their religion in my face. They are pretty dam green and have many activities, meetings, and really do a great job keeping the community strong. As I said - all done without religion being shoved in people's face. Often enough it may appear as a club, but their do their religious activities within the walls of their churches. Which all in all is great! And none of my local churches are Catholic, I'd like to point out (I am not saying that Catholic churches are in general better or worse!).

But BIG church has issues, I think.

The child abuse does have to stop. It has been my view for many years that priests should undergo far greater psychiatric evaluation before being ordained.

It takes them many many years to reach ordination in the first place, and I don't think it should be out of the question that they be evaluated constantly to make sure they can handle the burdens they've chosen to accept.

Of course the problem isn't unique to the Catholic Church, however the numbers are much much higher in regards to priests abusing women and kids vs protestant pastors doing so. Further proof that many people who become priests are probably being forced to do so by their families or someone else important to them, and it isn't a "career" that suits very many people. I'm sure we all heard the story about Ted Haggerd and his frenzy of booze, drugs and lying on beds with kids while masturbating with them.

quote:

Originally posted by ******** Taking confessionals on sexual sins must get to some of them. and then what happened.... although even in general society there is probably a segment of the population that are sexual criminals. eg. in the UK about 1 in 255 people is a sexual criminal. In the us 1 in about 31 people are criminals .. sex offenderes is about between 1 in 250 to 1 in 300 or so. varies Using an average of this with the 400,000 or so catholic priests, this would probably mean that perhaps as many as 100 priests were sexual offenders (although not in any way actual) .. this would be below the national average.

But for a specific "career" and one that is regarded as a position of power, religious authority and trust perhaps the numbers are much higher than they should be.

Regardless, any Priest caught doing this should be stripped of his ordination and possibly excommunicated.

quote:

Originally posted by Alex The fact is the Church is still right about the Theology and therefore I will continue to "blindly follow it and donate money to pay away my sins".

Exactly.


Wait you are talking about the church of the flying spaghetti monster right? Because clearly they are the only ones that are making any sense.

quote:

I think the abortion thing is just plainly universal. Also if a 9 year old is in puberty then she very well may be 6 ft tall, there is really no way to tell. Although I do agree abortion is more issued than rape within the churches veiw, as abortion for the church is murder, taking a life. Also read acused not convicted.

Oh come on, taking a life isnt that bad of a crime for the church, we all know perfectly well that the church never really had a problem when it came to killing people.

quote:

Ive already commented on the condom thing in another post. I think it is peoples choice, but a stable healthy monogomous relationship or abstinence is much better protection than a condom.

Who says that a monogamous relationship is healthy anyway? Why shouldn't or coudnt someone have a healthy polygamous relationship? Because someone said that isnt right? Well who could that have been I wonder.

quote:

The child abuse does have to stop. It has been my view for many years that priests should undergo far greater psychiatric evaluation before being ordained.

Yeah that, or they could just get castrated. I mean they arent supposed to use it anyway right? So why not make sure they dont.

quote:

Originally posted by Moongoose Exactly. Wait you are talking about the church of the flying spaghetti monster right? Because clearly they are the only ones that are making any sense. Oh come on, taking a life isnt that bad of a crime for the church, we all know perfectly well that the church never really had a problem when it came to killing people. Who says that a monogamous relationship is healthy anyway? Why shouldn't or coudnt someone have a healthy polygamous relationship? Because someone said that isnt right? Well who could that have been I wonder. Yeah that, or they could just get castrated. I mean they arent supposed to use it anyway right? So why not make sure they dont.

Bwahahahahahahah ... yeah, why not sterilize them?

At the same time - I dont hate the Catholic Church. I got a lot of Catholic friends, I respect their church too. Well, that is the ones who are secular and who are not talking about their religion every day - those kind of people (often hypocrites!) I distanced myself from already. My Catholic friends are people who are born Catholic, proud to be so, go to church once in a while or every weekend or never - doesnt matter to me, yet they dont brandish their religion and are exactly like everyone else and you can talk to them about anything. There are no taboo subjects and they're confortable with their sexuality and not afraid of curse words either. Great people!

I wish Catholics can grow in numbers and proportion in Africa - I believe they have a better vision for Africa than lets say fundamentalist Islamists. Women should have equal rights, thats for sure! No sharia law please! At the same time religions can and should coexist peacefully.

Yes.

Catholics rarely fit a certain mold in diverse countries like Canada and the States.

They aren't like Evangelicals who all act the same and creep everyone out.

Plus drinking is the 11th commandment of the Catholic Church!

quote:

Originally posted by Alex Regardless, any Priest caught doing this should be stripped of his ordination and possibly excommunicated.

Yes, and treated by the law like any other sexual predator. None of this transferring shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail Yes, and treated by the law like any other sexual predator. None of this transferring shit.

Absolutely.

quote:

Originally posted by Alex But for a specific "career" and one that is regarded as a position of power, religious authority and trust perhaps the numbers are much higher than they should be.

I have a theory about that.... let us assume that any person who becomes a priest was a strong believer prior to entering the seminary (reasonable assumption I would say). To a strong Catholic believer having homosexual desires or pedophilia would be quite distressing. The progression of thought for such a person would be that they must avoid acting on these desires in order to avoid sin. Some of these people may believe that by joining the clergy they will have a greater probability of denying their desires as they have additional incentive; subsequently, you find a disproportionate number of these persons within the clergy then the general population. Unfortunately, many soon learn that a collar and robes don't take away the desires quite as they had hoped.

Of course I can't back any of the above up; it just seems like a reasonable deduction.

quote:

Regardless, any Priest caught doing this should be stripped of his ordination and possibly excommunicated.

I agree with the stripped of ordination, I would also agree with being immediately dismissed from the employ of the diocese (and barred from employment with any other Vatican affiliated organization); however, I cannot support excommunication. Remember that excommunication means the person is barred from receiving any sacrament... this is huge because who is more in need of the sacrament of reconciliation then someone who has sinned so egregiously? I think excommunication is simply wrong, in any circumstance, for a church that is all about forgiveness and love.

i think its far more likely that being religious just makes you wanna fuck kids

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i think its far more likely that being religious just makes you wanna fuck kids

Okay... which one of you assholes told the heathen about this?

Excommunication is not a permanent punishment. I think it would be sobering enough to a truly devout believer that screwed up as big as a Priest molesting a kid for instance.

quote:

Originally posted by Alex Excommunication is not a permanent punishment. I think it would be sobering enough to a truly devout believer that screwed up as big as a Priest molesting a kid for instance.

It's only not permanent if the person doesn't die prior to the excommunication being lifted. I agree that it sends a powerful message; however, I simply don't believe the church should deny the sacraments to anyone who seeks them.

Well being Catholic of course I agree that everyone can change for the better and deserve the chance, but there just doesn't seem to be a suitable punishment for these priests.

I suppose the loss of ordination would be sufficient, it would completely limit their ability to function in society, which is a bit cruel but it's better they pay the price here I suppose.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i think its far more likely that being religious just makes you wanna fuck kids

Sir, you've got it just entirely the other way around. Here is a basic summary of the Catholic church:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABSoHYQr6k

(I post this solely for the purposes of humour! I am sure that there are many, many Catholics who are good people, just like those in any other religious or social group.)

BTW: how do people post Youtube videos directly in-line with their post, without having to use a hyperlink? I'm stumped!

quote:

Originally posted by Alex there just doesn't seem to be a suitable punishment for these priests.

well, i would have thought a catholic would be subject to the most awesome and eternal punishment the universe has ever known?

why does the washing machine get so much credit while the dish washer is being ignored? I think the vacuum is feeling left out as well.

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 why does the washing machine get so much credit while the dish washer is being ignored? I think the vacuum is feeling left out as well.

Very funny.

I hope you're being sarcastic

Too bad this sect isn't going to call it quits over the fact that its founder was a serious offender. Strong connections with the Pope, eh? Check this out. It is pretty clear people knew he was guilty of the allegations yet the sect people remained quiet and allowed so many innocent boys to be abused like that. Disgusting!!!

I cant believe this scumbag managed to escape justice:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7975155.stm

quote:

Vatican to probe Catholic order Marcial Maciel. Photo: 2005 Father Maciel founded the order in 1941 Pope Benedict XVI has ordered a probe into the Legionaries of Christ, after the conservative order revealed its late founder had fathered a child. The Vatican said a team of priests would carry out the investigation to help the Mexican order to deal with its problems with "truth and transparency". In February, the order said its founder Marcial Maciel, who died in 2008, had fathered a daughter with a mistress. The Vatican disciplined Father Maciel in 2006 over sexual abuse allegations. Father Maciel was banned from exercising his ministry in public and told to retire to a life of prayer and penitence, following allegations that he sexually abused about 30 boys and young men over a period of 30 years. The priest - who founded the conservative order in 1941 - had always denied any wrongdoing. He died in January 2008 at the age of 87. Consternation The investigation into the Legionaries of Christ was announced in a letter by the Vatican Secretary of State, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone. The letter said the pontiff had decided to intervene "so that with truth and transparency, in a climate of fraternal and constructive dialogue, you will overcome the present difficulties". The Vatican said that its investigators would visit all the institutions run by the Legionaries of Christ. It was not until after Father Maciel's death that his secret life was revealed. In February, the order admitted that he had kept a mistress and fathered a daughter who was now in her 20s. The disclosure caused consternation among the priests and laymen who are members of his religious congregation. They all take vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. Father Maciel was close to the late Pope John Paul II. The Legionaries of Christ order has about 600 priests and 2,500 seminarians, and says it has some 65,000 members around the world.

Yikes. Thats a pretty senior official implicated ... THREE different women, THREE kids. Holly cow! Whats even better - his reaction and response to it all. Besides, he lied through the election, when he was faced with the initial allegation of the first child. NOTE: he fathered the child when he was a Bishop. Hello - where's the damn excommunication??? Fockers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8017370.stm

quote:

Sex row Paraguay leader to stay Paraguayan President Fernando Lugo says he will not resign over claims by three women that he fathered children with them while he was a Catholic priest. Mr Lugo said in a televised address that he would see his mandate through to 2013 regardless of "rumours of instability and conspiracy". He asked for forgiveness from anyone who was offended by the revelations. Opposition politicians have seized on the controversy to undermine Mr Lugo, who ran on a campaign of honesty. Released from vows "It was not my intention to offend anyone," Mr Lugo said in his televised news conference, after cancelling what was regarded as an important trip to Washington due to start on Friday. Viviana Carrillo Mr Lugo admits having a son with Viviana Carrilllo while he was a bishop "I don't hesitate to ask for forgiveness in recognising that I failed the church, the country, the citizens, those who put their trust in me," he said. Mr Lugo came to power last August, ousting the right-wing Colorado party that had governed Paraguay for six decades. The Pope only released him from his vows of chastity last July, two years after Mr Lugo renounced the priesthood. This month, three women have come forward claiming that the former Roman Catholic bishop is the father of their children. Mr Lugo, 57, acknowledges a two-year-old boy born to a former parishioner as his own, but has not commented on the paternity of the others, a 14-month-old boy and a 6-year-old boy. 'Lost credibility' Calling the cases "private" during the news conference, he told journalists he could not keep answering questions without neglecting his duties as president. Your current personal situation has made you lose all credibility Senator Alfredo Jaeggli He said he would leave the matter in the hands of the justice system. A Paraguayan bishop, Rogelio Livieres, had called for Mr Lugo to resign. On Friday, a senator from a party currently aligned with Mr Lugo's also urged him to step down. "Your current personal situation has made you lose all credibility," Alfredo Jaeggli said in a letter to the presidency and congress. "I beg you to resign." Sitting alongside the president were a number of ministers who celebrated achievements from the government's first year in office, but critics claim the scandal continues to paralyse his administration, the BBC's Gary Duffy reports from Asuncion.

I don't understand what you're trying to do apart from point out isolated incidents.

With over 1 billion members spread out across dozens of different countries, I don't think you can expect every single Priest/Nun/Monk/Deacon/Bishop/Arch-Bishop/Cardinal/Layman to be a saint. I don't think these incidents (while really bad) speak to the bigger picture at all. Why not point out all the good that Priests/Nuns/Monks/Deacons/Bishops/Arch-Bishops/Cardinals/Laymen accomplish on a daily basis, then we'll compare that to the bad and see what we've got?

quote:

Originally posted by Alex I don't understand what you're trying to do apart from point out isolated incidents. With over 1 billion members spread out across dozens of different countries, I don't think you can expect every single Priest/Nun/Monk/Deacon/Bishop/Arch-Bishop/Cardinal/Layman to be a saint. I don't think these incidents (while really bad) speak to the bigger picture at all. Why not point out all the good that Priests/Nuns/Monks/Deacons/Bishops/Arch-Bishops/Cardinals/Laymen accomplish on a daily basis, then we'll compare that to the bad and see what we've got?

LOL, you got a point there. The cases are unrelated; indeed they don't make Catholic Church look all that evil. Perhaps my point is that Catholic Church need to be reformed / to get with the times. Shit like that (I mentioned) is what is weakening it. I am not a Catholic Church hater, I think we need it to have a balance in the world to counter Islam, but it needs to have a strong and positive image. And it is lacking it.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Perhaps my point is that Catholic Church need to be reformed

I seem to recall them trying this already...

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