TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Production Studio
-- Scales and chords in a minor Key

Scales and chords in a minor Key

Im doing theory at uni so I said I would post some easy stuff up for those who want to learn.


Scale and Chords in a minor key

We will use c maj for this table and convert into all minors by flattening notes (b) depending which ones you flatten gives you a different minor scale (very useful for modulating out of keys into others etc.


Scale: take major: C D E F G A B
flatten 3rd: C D Eb F G A B
choice:
flatten 6 and/or 7: C D Eb F G Ab Bb


This gives you 4 types of minors:
Melodic minor (jazz) C D Eb F G A B
Harmonic minor C D Eb F G Ab B
Dorian mode C D Eb F G A Bb
Natural minor C D Eb F G Ab Bb

Hey Sonic_c - good idea! I love to see threads about music theory in forums like this.

I am curious about the manner in which they are teaching you scales, modes, and keys. There are many ways to teach them - for example, some people learn best by memorizing them relative to a common major key (as in your example), then thinking in terms of which notes are flattened or raised to achieve a given scale. Others think in terms of whole-note/half-note/etc. intervals; in other words, a major scale would be [tonic note]W/W/H/W/W/W/H, where W=whole-note interval and H=half-note interval.

In my experience, I've found that knowing your modes inside and out is the best way to get a good grasp on the different keys and put them to use in your compositions or performances. For those of you not familiar with your modes, its' definitely worth your time to understand them and to understand how chord progressions are constructed using them.

quote:

This gives you 4 types of minors: Melodic minor (jazz) C D Eb F G A B Harmonic minor C D Eb F G Ab B Dorian mode C D Eb F G A Bb Natural minor C D Eb F G Ab Bb

I would just add that the three "minor" scales mentioned above (natural, melodic, harmonic) are all variations of the Aeolian mode, where "natural minor" is the same as pure Aeolian mode. These (and Dorian mode) are called minor modes because the chord built on the tonic note is minor. Which means that there is one more minor mode - Phrygian - whose tonic chord is also a minor chord. In the context Sonic_c used above, it would be based on:

Phrygian: C Db Eb F G Ab Bb

2/3 for Minor

3/2 for Major

That is how I learned.

Take a key, skip 2 keys then skip 3 keys, you have minor, Take a key, skip 3 keys then skip 2 and you have major chords. Keys in the scale of course, not on the keyboard :P Music is math once you see the pattern it becomes very easy. When I hear about people trying to memorize scales and all this I think "What did they do wrong?" This was never part of my musical method. Use theory as a reference to this pattern, not the pattern itself :P Theory is also not a set of "rules"

Theory teaches you how to communicate music to others in a technical language. It doesn't teach you music.

Hehe the only thing i know about the minor scale is 2-1-2-2-1-2-2 (semi notes) and with this information i can actually correctly play/compose in all the keys in minor. (the "normal" one)

IMO it is more important to being able to physically play the keys, chord and scales (expressing yourself) rather than actually knowing the exact theory behind it. Of course, experience does tell what works and what doesnt.

Over the course of the next few months I will be adding a lot about msuic theory. I couldn't play piano untill i knew the 'theory' behind how it works. Never played an instrument in my life but now I am advising my freind on what chords to use on his guitar.

I know quite a bit now its just typing it up here. I already explained major scales in "the music theory swap shop" one of my earlier treads. Now im going to do minor properly then I will do one on chords. NB Tedious for those who know but a revelation for me and loads of people come on here like how do you write these great songs and IMO it all comes down to harmony. Im going to be covering intervals, chords, modulation* (when i learn it), modes (long winded). Also doing it helps me remember it too so I'm happy too transfer my theory class notes onto here if it will help people.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir It doesn't teach you music.

Yes, it does.

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux Yes, it does.

Then you did something wrong. Music Theory only applied labels to everything I already knew. And that was the purpose of learning music theory, so I could explain to others what things are called and how to refer to them.

Its like language. It tells you what to use to communicate certain ideas, it doesn't tell you how to formulate ideas.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir Then you did something wrong. Music Theory only applied labels to everything I already knew. And that was the purpose of learning music theory, so I could explain to others what things are called and how to refer to them.

I think I said that just to argue. :P

I see some people here discounting music theory, seeing it something as merely "optional" rather than necessary if you're going to producer something that has more than a handful of clicks and beeps.

When I listen to tracks in the Promotion section, I much rather hear a song with a good melody than a song with good production.

Re: Scales and chords in a minor Key

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c Im doing theory at uni so I said I would post some easy stuff up for those who want to learn. Scale and Chords in a minor key We will use c maj for this table and convert into all minors by flattening notes (b) depending which ones you flatten gives you a different minor scale (very useful for modulating out of keys into others etc. Scale: take major: C D E F G A B flatten 3rd: C D Eb F G A B choice: flatten 6 and/or 7: C D Eb F G Ab Bb This gives you 4 types of minors: Melodic minor (jazz) C D Eb F G A B Harmonic minor C D Eb F G Ab B Dorian mode C D Eb F G A Bb Natural minor C D Eb F G Ab Bb

the melodic minor is a scale you rarely find in jazz. I think you might of made an error.

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux I think I said that just to argue. :P I see some people here discounting music theory, seeing it something as merely "optional" rather than necessary if you're going to producer something that has more than a handful of clicks and beeps. When I listen to tracks in the Promotion section, I much rather hear a song with a good melody than a song with good production.

I think its because most people are not musically inclined.

there was a really good post about a month ago which had links to chord theory which i used.. having never played piano it helped alot...
i still am not even close to being able to play properly so all these posts with chords and that help alot..
thanks for the post

Re: Scales and chords in a minor Key

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c Im doing theory at uni so I said I would post some easy stuff up for those who want to learn. Scale and Chords in a minor key We will use c maj for this table and convert into all minors by flattening notes (b) depending which ones you flatten gives you a different minor scale (very useful for modulating out of keys into others etc. Scale: take major: C D E F G A B flatten 3rd: C D Eb F G A B choice: flatten 6 and/or 7: C D Eb F G Ab Bb This gives you 4 types of minors: Melodic minor (jazz) C D Eb F G A B Harmonic minor C D Eb F G Ab B Dorian mode C D Eb F G A Bb Natural minor C D Eb F G Ab Bb

This is great, I really like this way of laying out the differences in the scales / chords. I've not seen this way before and it seems the easiest for me to grasp, much appreciated!

Thanks for the info. I have been making music only about a year or so now and I am still learning all this.

The main problem I have, is when I make a song, I use melodies based on my chord progression because notes outside that progression seem to clash too much and it sounds bad to me. What I mean is, lets say I am using a c# minor chord, I would use the C#, E, and G notes to make the body of the melody. If I want more notes to play with, I just switch the backing chord progression to get more. IE I go to a Em chord or F#, something like that.

Doing it this way makes for rather limiting melodies though. I have tried using more notes of whatever scale I am working in, but that just doesn't sound right to me. Any ideas on this? (Edit to mean It doesnt sound right with the bass)

quote:

Originally posted by AstroB lets say I am using a c# minor chord, I would use the C#, E, and G notes to make the body of the melody. If I want more notes to play with,...I go to a Em chord or F#,

The reason you're getting "clashes" is because you're using a diminished fifth note (i.e., G-natural), which will always sound dissonant in that scale, rather than a perfect fifth note (i.e., G#). In other words, the root chord of C# min is C#/E/G#, NOT C#/E/G. Also, the third chord is an Emaj (E/G#/B), NOT an Emin chord (E/G/B). They're based on the natural minor scale:

C# D# E F# G# A B

Hopefully, that makes sense.

Ya it does, thanks. I got it now.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.