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How to create more headroom in your mix (with EQ)?

Whenever I start mixing multiple sounds, it doesn't take long before my master meter goes in the red.

Anybody can give some good advice regarding how to create more headroom in your mix and if EQ'ing can help with this?

Also, do frequency-overlapping sounds in a mix eat up headroom alot faster? I notice when I mix sounds that have overlapping frequencies (like bass and pad), the master seems to go much faster in the red then when you mix for example a kick and a hi-hat. Is there a logic behind this? Anybody can explain this please? Thanks!

Turn the master fader down.

Also, What I tend to do for my sounds is have the loudest insert PEAK at around -8db [this would likely be your kick] and everything else below that. As a rule I don't let anything go over -8db and defiantly not over -5db, Then I adjust the master fader how I feel necessary

Low cut everything that isnt bass, even hi hats, snares, perc hits and everything. Especially lead sounds and pads.

Of course, use your ears, if there is a sound that sounds great with a little low-mid end then keep it of course.

You may not notice alot of difference on each sound, but when it all adds up the difference is going to be significant.

low AND high cut EVERYTHING
do general cuts around 500hz on bass and kick (you will find SPADES of headroom there)

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir Turn the master fader down.

Don't

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir Also, What I tend to do for my sounds is have the loudest insert PEAK at around -8db [this would likely be your kick] and everything else below that. As a rule I don't let anything go over -8db and defiantly not over -5db, Then I adjust the master fader how I feel necessary

-8dB is way to low. If your track is getting a release, and it will be mastered by them, pull it to -3dB, if it isn't getting mastered, pull the final mix to -0.3dB.

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie low AND high cut EVERYTHING do general cuts around 500hz on bass and kick (you will find SPADES of headroom there)

Maybe, but if you cut your kick and bass above 500hz, there will be nothing decent of your kick or bass left. Kicks also contain vital higher frequencies, as bass (except for subbass ofcourse).

Creating headroom is really a matter of proper mixing. If you control the volumes, you should be able to create some headroom. Proper control of volume can be done by using compressors and limiters.

The master is 0db peak when I work. But that doesn't mean the master fader is at 100% volume :P

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir The master is 0db peak when I work. But that doesn't mean the master fader is at 100% volume :P

Lowering the masterfader in you sequencer just makes no sence!

Sure it does, the position of any slider means absolutely nothing at all, what matters is where the master is peaking at. If the master fader is at 15%..but it still peaks at -2db to 0db then that is fine.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir Sure it does, the position of any slider means absolutely nothing at all, what matters is where the master is peaking at. If the master fader is at 15%..but it still peaks at -2db to 0db then that is fine.

Sure, positioning of the fader is simple volume control. I guess you should know that by now, it's pretty important!

And you are pretty much contradicting yourself, first you say that you never let you peaks exceed -5dB, and now you are talking about -2dB to 0dB.

And something else, the masterfader, controlles the 'mastervolume' which means that if you pull the masterfader down, the overall volume drops.

And again, what you are saying makes no sence. If you set the masterfader at 15% (btw, the masterfader is the last chain in the mixer), your track will probably end up -20dB (or more), the masterfader should be at 0dB, don't adjust it.

I appreciate that you are trying to help people, but I'm not sure if you know what you are talking about.

My inserts never go above -8db as I said.

The master never goes above 0db as I said.

How does that not make sense?

Sometimes I have the master fader at 120% and sometimes at 70% It depends how loud I want the track in the end. And where its peaking at. even though all my sounds may not go above -8db in each track the highest peak in the master won't always be the same.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir Sometimes I have the master fader at 120% and sometimes at 70% It depends how loud I want the track in the end. And where its peaking at. even though all my sounds may not go above -8db in each track the highest peak in the master won't always be the same.

So say that you have a sourcesound coming in on the masterbus, let's draw it out


=====
LIMITER
=====
EQUALISER
=====
EMPTY
=====
ANALYZER
=====

||
==
||
||
||
||

So, this represents the masterfader with the effects on it. The signalflow on a mixer starts at the effects, and ends at the fader.

So, if a soundsignal somes into the masterfader, these are the stages it passes:
1. Limitier
2. Equaliser
3. Analyzer
4. Fader

1. Limiter:
- with the limiter I control the overall volume. I already made sure that peaks are already compressed if necessary. The only thing the limiter does is keeping the sound at -3dB.

2. Equalizer:
- For some last adjustments (mostly cuts of from 30Hz and lower)

3. Analyzer:
- A visual tool to see how the spectrum, AND overall volume looks like

4. Masterfader
- since the volume is already controlled by the limiter, this one stays untouched.


The masterfader controlles the 'final' volume. if you turn it down to 70%, it means that the volume controlled by your limiter (which is set at -3dB), will be reduced with 30%, indeed, great headroom..... but you'll end up with a low volume mix.

If I used a limiter. I hardly only use limiters on inserts.

When I actually render the final thing, my master channel is empty. Unless I have vstunnel or a anaylser loaded. Really it all depends on the project, but the point is. The location of the master slider means nothing aslong as the mix is at a nice volume. And even that depends on preference. There is no "too low" volume.

There is a too high however, because high volume can distort sound :P

quote:

Originally posted by Theran And again, what you are saying makes no sence. If you set the masterfader at 15% (btw, the masterfader is the last chain in the mixer), your track will probably end up -20dB (or more), the masterfader should be at 0dB, don't adjust it.

Not sure i agree with this, my master channel is always set between -10 to -20 db, and the rest of the faders are set to around 0 -10 db average. And then the master channel despite being set so low, still peaks at around 0db to -2db.

Does not make a difference whatsoever what the master channel is actually set to, what matters is that it is not peaking.

guys, i have to agree with Theran. it's not only about headroom, it's about summing truncaning in the signal path. why do you think external summers solely exist for this purpose.

do yourself a favour: leave the main mix and subgroups @ unity gain (0dbfs) and mix towards -12RMS on K14 scale.

That's the point. At least in the sequencer I work in it seems like I don't truncate anything unless the master is clipping. If a channel peaks above 0 dB and I lower the master it doesn't change a thing to it's sound. I literally boosted a signal 27dB on a channel. Whilst the channel volume was seemingly 1 big clipping festival the master did not clip and the signal did not sound different either. When I pulled up the master clipping became obvious (visually and sound-wise) as soon as the clipping signal lit up.

I don't see the point in this mixing below blabla, and whilst I know how to mix according to regular guidelines I don't feel like doing it as it doesn't make any difference in the end result and it's less work to pull the master down instead of 20 other faders.

EQ-ing to create more headroom is a different issue though. I'm purely responding to the posts above about the `importance` of volume control in a digital environment which is way less than it was before in the analog domain.

quote:

Originally posted by Storyteller That's the point. At least in the sequencer I work in it seems like I don't truncate anything unless the master is clipping. If a channel peaks above 0 dB and I lower the master it doesn't change a thing to it's sound. I literally boosted a signal 27dB on a channel. Whilst the channel volume was seemingly 1 big clipping festival the master did not clip and the signal did not sound different either. When I pulled up the master clipping became obvious (visually and sound-wise) as soon as the clipping signal lit up.

Maybe true, but if you lower your masterfader, how do you know what the end volume is? I think a limiter (not squashing the signal ofcourse!) on the endmix can control the 'master' volume, not the fader, but I guess that's just a different way of working for everyone. personally, I can't stand it if I have to work with a constant red clipping signal on.

quote:

Originally posted by Theran Maybe true, but if you lower your masterfader, how do you know what the end volume is? I think a limiter (not squashing the signal ofcourse!) on the endmix can control the 'master' volume, not the fader, but I guess that's just a different way of working for everyone. personally, I can't stand it if I have to work with a constant red clipping signal on.

It says on the mixer what the current maximum peak is.

I dont see the point in using a limiter on the master channel, even if it clips here and there due to a huge spike somewhere it has no effect on what im doing, atleast i know there isnt a limiter that flattens the sound for me when i dont want it to.

Usually i turn the master channel down so much that it doesnt clip anyways, and when it does i can see where and then solve the problem on the given channel instead.

Anyways, i guess this is a matter of habit and preferences anyways, as long as the end result doesnt clip none of us are wrong or right.

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle none of us are wrong or right.

NO, YOU ARE WRONG.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir NO, YOU ARE WRONG.

YES, YOU ARE RIGHT.

quote:

Originally posted by Theran Maybe true, but if you lower your masterfader, how do you know what the end volume is? I think a limiter (not squashing the signal ofcourse!) on the endmix can control the 'master' volume, not the fader, but I guess that's just a different way of working for everyone. personally, I can't stand it if I have to work with a constant red clipping signal on.

I am no expert, but wouldn't it make more sense to put the limiter/maximizer POST-fader then. Then you can still change the master volume, the maximizer will determine the end volume, ain't that so? I believe that's what the Cubase manual recommends. What do you think?

When I mix, I set the kick to peak at -6db. I try to then never change the level of kick, and build the rest of the mix around that. If I ever find that I am reaching for the kick slider to increase its level, it usually indicates that either the other tracks should be lowered, or EQ'd better to not clash. If I mix carefully enough like this, with the kick at -6db, then I always end up with a track peaking between -3db and 0db, which is pretty good for a mix. Mastering then addresses the final maximum peak, and apparent loudness.

well all you guys semm like you know what your talking about so quick question.. is it preferable to mix in a way so that the end mix on the master channel is MAX a 0dB . . . .

because i been making a track at the moment and put every channel at low volume but the master was still hittin +4dB etc.

so to stop this i pulled down the master volume ( on logic the level on the far right)

that made it not peak and brought the master to 0dB
and every other level was in -dB


im guessing by what you guys are saying this is bad ? ?

let me know please... haha

Again, I just don't know why there is so much misinformation about this subject.
firstly read these two thread (They go a long way to explain why you don't need to touch the master fader):


http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=512627

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...e=&pagenumber=8

Basically:

Number one thread is that your monitor system should be calibrated to a set specific reference. Unity on the master fader is completely relative to this........

.....The second thread explains why it is best (in most circumstances), especially baring in mind the first thread, as to why you should produce to just below -3dbfs.

Heh, between my master and the actual speakers there are like 5 volume sliders. The master really becomes irrelevent in everything other than the volume of the end mix.

PS I learned what I do from the thread YOU [DJ RANN] started.

quote:

Originally posted by Dance123 I am no expert, but wouldn't it make more sense to put the limiter/maximizer POST-fader then. Then you can still change the master volume, the maximizer will determine the end volume, ain't that so? I believe that's what the Cubase manual recommends. What do you think?

It isn't possible to do that, the masterfader is the last stage before it goes to your audiodevice.

quote:

Originally posted by johncannons1 well all you guys semm ....

Well, if you read the thread that RANN posted above, you will learn what your answer is.
But to be short , +4dBfs is to loud, your system will probably be clipping by then.

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