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1999 vs. 2009

It's hard to believe it's been a decade. I know I am probably not the only one who is a bit nostalgic for those days.

I was wondering what everybodies overall thoughts were based on the last ten years of Trance "Progression" - Besides the obvious formulaic sounds and overused and misunderstood words like progression, what are some key differences that separate then from now. I'm talking just about the music too. Not vinyls, mp3s, traktor, etc.

If you can't tell by now, I miss those 99' days. I dig and dig for producers who produce 99 sounding music and have a total of 4 that do it and I'm not sure if they're going it on purpose or if they just don't know any better.

I can't think of anything more gratifying than to be able to bring back, or create, tracks that were made before the turn of the century. Remember when you actually had to make damn sure you knew what you were playing and when to break? These days, you could hand me (and any DJ worth their salt) 20 "trance" mp3s they had never heard before and I could play them without any major problems.

So I guess back to the question - What has changed, and if you want to take it a step further, what has changed for the better or worse in your opinion.

I think the range and type of trance has expanded tbh. Easier access to high quality tools has enabled more people to create music and release it into the scene.

Sure if all you do is trawl the top ten lists then your going to run into a-like trance tracks, but if you've got your ear to the ground and do more than just listen to the banging reworks then there is lots of great music about.

Next time you hear a track and get annoyed with it being formulaic then just browe a bit deeper and listen to the original or check of remixes in a different genre, you can still play them in a 'trance' set. There is some amazing trance coming out of eastern europe - poland, latvia etc

There had been 'better' leads/basses sounds ,
nowadays we have saw basses that we cant figure out its pattern ,
and supersaws/square that sounds really phat.

Oh. The kick is harder.

And Trance is now less ''trancy'' , in fact someone should think of a new name for this genre. Now everything is focus on melody and uplifting vibes , no one cares about ''"trance"" anymore.

Older tracks had fewer elements that just sounded better together.

Because they had more limitation in how many channels and sounds they could have in a project, thus forcing them to make the best out of the equipment and sounds they had.

While the number of channels and sounds these days are close to unlimited, so instead of making sounds sound good on its own its just layering and layering, and it does work to a degree.. but makes it less soulful and personal.

10 years of crap imo, what a decade. now its time for good stuff again, its always every second decade 50s 70s 90s and now next 2010

I think the beginning of the end started in 2004, when bedroom producers starter spawning for real.

^^ I agree. You would think you would have major frequency problems with the older Trance due to a lack of technology, but the limited use of instruments like you mentioned above gave the track clarity to the point where there was no need for the newer technologies like side chaining etc.

I also think that with fewer instruments, you got much more diverse sounds and styles of tracks. Yes, everything was still changing at 16 and 32 intervals, but a lot of the breaks and shifts in older Trance were very sharp. They were not layed out all pretty and cohesive like every Trance track produced these days. I personally miss that style. The tracks seemed so much more unique back then.

To the poster above who mentioned listening, I listen to every single Trance tune released on Beatport and have for over a year. I'm disappointed 99% of the time.

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle I think the beginning of the end started in 2004, when bedroom producers starter spawning for real.

i think the reason behind trance�s fall is more complex than that

it got REALLY mainstream in 1999 after almost 10 years of being underground and special. This beacuse of the anthem tracks that arrived that spesific year by ferry corsten and rank1 mostly. At the time i loved it but when listening to it now i cant almost bear it, while earlier stuff i still listen to.

someone understood that there was good money in it. which is the root of all evil imo.

the music got "dj friendly" so the djs would play it and therefore help promoting. Already here all the cool intros and breakbeats and difficult interesting elements disapeared and trance was stripped down to a 4*4 beat, hihats a snare a bass and two leads, all in 99.

armin van buuren got popular with his ASOT show, this is really when everything went to hell as everyone wanted to be on his show and copying the music he playd. Also the brickwall sound apeared here so everyone started thinking about compression, sidechaining and shit to make their tracks sound loudest on ASOT. This was around 2002/2003 i think.

then someone (a danish dude i think) come up with using happy bell/plong sounds in a track called Ice Beach. Then everyone tried to copy that and from there on I couldnt care anymore.

i dont really think bedroom producers where a huge problem beacuse thats what trance and techno has been always, but maybe avaliable software did mather more.

Thats your problem lol , Beatport is awful for trance. Only good for picking up tracks where you've found the name elsewhere or classics that have been re-released. The prog section is always worth a punt.

Trackitdown is great for smaller or new labels and my fav personally. Audiojelly has a good selection and their top ten is pretty reliable, for general browsing I've still not got the hang of it though.

Why would you think ASOT is good for trance, they only play one style that leans towards the housier end. There is so so many other releases that are available that don't fit Armins style. What about Marco V, SVD, J00F, Callaghan etc

I have no personal nostalgia with tracks before 97. So imo there has been great music, and crap music ever since then.
I personally like the newer sound better than the old. You just gotta embrace change people.
Musical genres will continue to evolve. No use to nag about it. If you think electronic music
was best before 99, then continue to listen to that stuff.
I have a friend who only listen to 60s 70s 80 rock. ONLY.

Can anyone ID these tracks for me? I have it from a mix by a local friend of a friend dj from around that time...


Heres one,
http://www.sendspace.com/file/hnad3v


This one has a really warm sound:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/5ep1tk

This one is obviously the same producer i think.. whoever it is has a signature sound, with those pluckish saw leads, and the overdriven but warm kick.. i wonder what synth that is.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/eexncr

Yea there is a laundry list of why Trance went bad. One thing that I'm proud of and always will be is I have never listened to ASOT, ever. I suppose that really isn't a big deal though considering the original rock star trancer (Oakenfold) had never even heard of ASOT as of 2 months ago. Maybe he has by now, but he can't operate an email account so I doubt it.

quote:

Originally posted by palm i dont really think bedroom producers where a huge problem beacuse thats what trance and techno has been always, but maybe avaliable software did mather more.

Its a problem when they make crap music and gets support from Armin van Buuren.

Thing is back in 1999 DJ`s were not in control of of the music, they were the music, there was no other alternative, they just had all good music that existed.
Whereas now, there are thousands of times more available music, and the DJ`s are in control of what people are listening too.
You cant blame the audience.. there is simply too much music for people too handle in such a small marked as trance, they have to follow the DJs.

As long as the big trance DJs continue to support cheesy trance music because it keeps them famous, its never going to stop.

Trance has become like mp3.com was back in the days, only there is no higher standard.

The downhill is going to continue for sure.

I also want to point out that the Prog House scene does not suffer from this, because those DJs are always looking for new and groundbreaking music.

I think the use of saw & sine with Trance is for sure over done. Many will argue they are the building blocks of any Trance track, but I think it's time we start using them sparingly and start focusing on true instrument sounds (synthesized or audio, just need to get away from so much heavy synth sounds)

I have to disagree with the poster above about Prog House and really every genre. They're all too formulaic and rely upon too many rules and the producers don't want to create tracks that won't sell or get air play. There is a lot of experimentation with EDM, but it rarely ever yields anything worth while, which discourages most from going against the grain. (there may be a lot that do experiment heavily, but we don't know because we never hear from them, which proves my point about DJ's not supporting tracks that unorthodox)

My biggest gripe is it seems that producers for Trance and most likely other genres already have a course plotted out in their head. Fill the intro for a minute or two, do a little break, start pounding away, throw in a bigger break and build it up, and then pound away some more and eventually out.

Tracks simply were not made that way back in the day. They had a much more unique feeling to them which made a lot of people happy as the tracks were pumped out.

Somewhere along the way, around the turn of the century, people started in with this whole "progressive" nonsense and Trance hasn't been the same since. Every track more or less has the same structure as any other in todays day. Are there tracks that stand out? Of course, but they don't come close to standing out like the tracks did back in the late 90's which I deeply miss.

This almost makes me want to produce some late 90's style Trance.

We need a nice guide on how it was done back in the day that can be translated into todays software. (ie. no side chaining, a limited number of channels and voices, etc)

i agree with all reply's thus far always good to hear other peoples take on the issues.as producers i think its our duty to keep shit alive and intresting.

with what palm was saying 2010 is going to bring some good waves i hope.time will tell.

and to the point about sounds being separate compared to the early days when producers would spend time on finding things.
has almost gone in replacement for entreasting things made with build ups ect witch has led to tracks going less fat and full.

There is so much room for experimenting and making new sounds and combinations in music, you just have to let go of any references to other music styles, artists and tracks as you can, experiment and create you own vision.

THAT was how music used to be made, and that is why that music is unique, producers did not know what they wanted to make!

Its extremely easy, just stop copying others.

and start making breaks, dnb with uplifting melos and werd noises. this must be the future it has to be. were living the future with all this technology and people listen to house and minimal??? whats techno about that? thats why i fell for trance to start with it felt somewhat like a timewarp between ancient tribal feelings with technology. phatt.

I'll be the odd-man-out here and state publicly that I love a lot of the newer prog/house stuff, even more so than a lot of the late 90s trance. And, just to make you guys cringe even more, I really love the cheesy pop-trance vocal stuff from the early- to mid-2000s - Fragma, Ian van Dahl, Lasgo, and, yes, even Cascada. I always liked trance back in the mid-90s, but didn't really get heavily into it until it started to "evolve" (for better or worse is up to you) towards its current state. I hope I'm still allowed to post here after that confession.

I think palm nailed it earlier with his 20-year cycle reference. I was in my late teens during the 80s and was heavily influenced by a lot of new wave/synth-pop stuff and early techno. The music that has been coming out over the past 6-7 years reminds me a lot of those days.

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Wiley If you can't tell by now, I miss those 99' days. I dig and dig for producers who produce 99 sounding music and have a total of 4 that do it and I'm not sure if they're going it on purpose or if they just don't know any better.

Hey Stephen - just out of curiosity, who are some of the producers that you are referring to?

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Wiley We need a nice guide on how it was done back in the day that can be translated into todays software. (ie. no side chaining, a limited number of channels and voices, etc)

i don't know about that...then we'll have a bunch of people attempting to recreate old school trance by following a guide, which will only result in a specific layout everyone will use like todays trance. all you need to do is listen, appreciate, & analyze old tracks.

let your ears be your teacher

imo, trance producers back in the day focused more on the creative aspects of a track than engineering & vice versa. of course, there are exceptions

Trance never went bad - I can give the names of some shocking trance form 'back then', stop being spoon-fed and winging about Armin.

I've not problen with him at all, I only listened to a few ASOTS and thought they were ok. BUT he doesn't play trance how I like it so I listen to other artists and DJs.

Try listening to some of the other radio shows around, some great stuff being played. Try Afterhours.fm @ ah.fm or ETN.fm, they play a nice range of trance and progressive.

With tech-trance, prog house/trance, psy, hard etc there is so much trance there for the taking. Its up to DJ's to take from each style and create from there. Just cos Armin doesn't play this or that there are hundreds of other ones who do.

Now we have an easily distributable, effective music format in mp3 you music can be out there for DJs to play. You dont need a dj friendly intro now we have easy to use harmonic / key tools and CJ tools like Ableton. I've been noticing a big increase in un-dj-friendly intros - such as straight into melodys or fading up kick drums.

IF you want to put a DnB bass in a track do it, just do it well and it will get noticed.

dont get me wrong i dont have any problems with armin either, i actually respect him alot coming that far with nothing but hard work, even without the talent of producing he come this far and that says alot about his effort in his earlier days, now he just rides the wave he made, so thats good for him. my problem is like with fotball, the fucking hooligans. fotball is a cool sport but the supporters sucks and the ever expanding place fotball have in media fucking annoys me, i cant choose not know anything about fotball cause i would have to live on the moon. its sort of the same with armin and tiesto, u have to search for trancemusic on the most mysterious places to avoid them and their playlists, radioshows, releases, remixes, concerts (omg trance-concert what happened?) and their narrowminded fans/hooligans. to sum up what i really hate is humans and human behaviour in masses. once more than ten people have the same opinion on something it can be labeled as a problem.

quote:

Originally posted by palm ...i cant choose not know anything about fotball cause i would have to live on the moon.

Or the U.S.

same thing, pluss theres the NFL or NBA or NHL or some other shits. and fat females thinking their beatiful, what a country.

Its all about the 50s 60s 70s and 80s. Screw 99 vs 2009, neither of them win.

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