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pioneer trouble

hey guys , i was wondering if someone could help me. I'm having a problem with my dj set up. I have 2 pioneer cdj 1000MK2 and a djm 600 mixer.

now the problem is that the sound seems to be phasing. example, when just a kick is playing you can hear the highs cutting in and out and the bass level seems inconsistant. it's not the monitors and i don't think it's the cdjs. the odd thing on my mixer is when i move the master fader from left to right it the level stays centered. my mixer is set on stereo and i can tell that it's coming throw in stereo, but this lite phasing sound i can't get rid of.

has anyone experienced this, or know what i should do . thanks

I don't mean to be silly or anything but have you check that none of the effects are on etc..

Does it do it with both decks?

Have you made sure that you've plugged the cdj's into the line in RCA inputs.

When you say phasing do you mean 1 song played on it's own does it or when you're mixing one song into another one it starts phasing?

ok i figured out what it was. it's from the cdj, when i have the master tempo botton on it makes it sound like shit. is this normal or do i need to get these fixed?

quote:

Originally posted by lowski ok i figured out what it was. it's from the cdj, when i have the master tempo botton on it makes it sound like shit. is this normal or do i need to get these fixed?

Well, it shouldn't sound like "shit" unless you're pitching way up or down. The master tempo under typical use only has a barely noticeable degradation in sound. It's practically imperceptible.

i have my temp range set to +/- 6, and within that range it's phasing. Should i take them in?

nah you dont need to take them in, its just a pitch correction algorithm built into the firmware of the cdj. The only thing i can see of improving it might be the audio format.
Such a mp3 now you can have vbr or cbr, i remember reading (pioneer forums) that playing in vbr created some artifacts, dont quote me though! Oh and this would not apply to you as you cant play mp3 lol.

how do i fix this problem then. i'm already only playing 320kbps quailty songs. do the cdj 800's have this problem to?. maybe i'll just get new decks, cuz i can't record a quilty sounding mix with these

record a sample and post it up

It sounds a bit weird that both cd decks are having the same issue?
have you tried the cdj's on another input source or atleast put another cd player through your mixer?

have you made sure that the cdjs have the most current firmware?

quote:

Originally posted by lowski how do i fix this problem then. i'm already only playing 320kbps quailty songs. do the cdj 800's have this problem to?. maybe i'll just get new decks, cuz i can't record a quilty sounding mix with these

It's not a fault as such with the CDJ's - I personally don't like to use master tempo at all - it just doesn't sound good, most of the time it sounds like the percussion timing is off in the track itself. It gets especially bad at anything over 3%. You get like a "second kick" which is slightly off and then weird artifacts in other frequency bands.

When you say mp3, you mean you're burning 320's to audio CD's? I would just buy the wav's in the first place, especially as you have a really great setup.

Firmware might help, but TBH, master tempo is not a good idea if the highest quality is what you're after.

quote:

Originally posted by i got big pants have you made sure that the cdjs have the most current firmware?

hey thanks for the help guys

how can i tell what firmware i have?. i'm googling around but i don't quite understand what it is.


so dj rann, what you are saying is that i'm out of luck and need to start djing with it off?. i hate the sound of having to touch a track to slow it down or speed it up while you are mixing.

yeah the track quailty is 320 and i burn them to an audio cd. as for getting the wav?, the files are way to big, and downloading them would take forever.

i will post a sample of the master tempo on/off to show you guys how shitty it sounds hopefully there's something that can be improved cuz i really like using the master tempo

quote:

Originally posted by lowski i hate the sound of having to touch a track to slow it down or speed it up while you are mixing.

You have to do that anyway, regardless of whether master tempo is on or off.

You never answered miamitranceman's post anyway. You said at +6/-6 they are phasing. Did you mean that they are phasing when you pitch them up to +6%, or that they were phasing with the pitch set at 0% but the range selector on +6/-6?

Set the pitch to 0%, i.e the slider in the exact middle where it "clicks", and then tell us what it sounds like. I think you've just been pitching it up ridiculously high and the master tempo is compensating by making the music sound like shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated You have to do that anyway, regardless of whether master tempo is on or off. You never answered miamitranceman's post anyway. You said at +6/-6 they are phasing. Did you mean that they are phasing when you pitch them up to +6%, or that they were phasing with the pitch set at 0% but the range selector on +6/-6? Set the pitch to 0%, i.e the slider in the exact middle where it "clicks", and then tell us what it sounds like. I think you've just been pitching it up ridiculously high and the master tempo is compensating by making the music sound like shit.

That's my hunch as well.

In reference to the first part of your answer, I think he meant that when you have the master tempo on and you're adjusting the platter to beatmatch or correct, you don't get that pitch adjusting speed up or slow down sound, which is pretty handy for hiding adjustments actually.

But anyway, we'll have to get a sample up there.

ok here's a sample. the song is "hamilton - a limit of perception"

first off these are my cdj settings: my tempo range is +/-6 (you know where it says +/-6, 10, 16, 100) i always have it on +/-6.

ok the songs actual tempo is 132bpm. i have it pushed up to 136bpm

the screen says; tempo +2.66% (playback tempo display), +/-6 (tempo adjustment range indicator), and 136bpm.

the sample first starts with the MT botton off for 8 bars then on for 8 bars


http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?zooojmymizj

as you can here it sounds like shit

oh and yes miamitranceman that is what i meen. when you touch the platter to adjust when the Mt botton is off you can hear the pitch change. i hate that sound, may as well use records then hahaha

quote:

Originally posted by miamitranceman That's my hunch as well. In reference to the first part of your answer, I think he meant that when you have the master tempo on and you're adjusting the platter to beatmatch or correct, you don't get that pitch adjusting speed up or slow down sound, which is pretty handy for hiding adjustments actually.

While this is true - and I hate to be elitist about it - you shouldn't "touch" the platter when in the mix. Just make adjustments with the pitch slider and you don't get that momentary speed up/down sound.

Really, you've just got to learn not to touch the platter. -it;s not worth the compromise of quality to use the master tempo function.

As mentioned before anything close to 3% with Master tempo sadly results in shitty sound quality. There's no easy fix for this one I think, just to teach yourself to use the pitch slider (and stop cheating )

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN While this is true - and I hate to be elitist about it - you shouldn't "touch" the platter when in the mix. Just make adjustments with the pitch slider and you don't get that momentary speed up/down sound. Really, you've just got to learn not to touch the platter. -it;s not worth the compromise of quality to use the master tempo function. As mentioned before anything close to 3% with Master tempo sadly results in shitty sound quality. There's no easy fix for this one I think, just to teach yourself to use the pitch slider (and stop cheating )

Ah, that's a discussion for a whole new thread right there.

quote:

Originally posted by lowski ok here's a sample. the song is "hamilton - a limit of perception" first off these are my cdj settings: my tempo range is +/-6 (you know where it says +/-6, 10, 16, 100) i always have it on +/-6. ok the songs actual tempo is 132bpm. i have it pushed up to 136bpm the screen says; tempo +2.66% (playback tempo display), +/-6 (tempo adjustment range indicator), and 136bpm. the sample first starts with the MT botton off for 8 bars then on for 8 bars http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?zooojmymizj as you can here it sounds like shit

Yep, unfortunately, that's just the master tempo algorithm. Believe it or not, it's one of the best out there built right into a CDJ.

The only alternative would be to incorporate a DVS. I use Torq and the newest version incorporates zPlane Elastique timestretching (like Ableton) that sounds amazing. The original version of Torq's time stretching was complete crap, but zPlane has made all the difference.

I'd rate it even better than Pio's master tempo in fact, but there are still upper and lower limits.

Why is using master tempo "cheating"? All it does is lock the pitch of the track while changing the tempo. Sort of like the "Key Lock" function in Traktor.

dj rann, if you use the tempo slider to adjust to correct the ptcih then you lose the proper bpm. i found a way to get perfect match everytime but you can't touch the slider. that's one of the reasons i hated vinyl so much, you would need to adjust with the slider and you would lose the match you just had.


miamitranceman what is a dvs?

thanks for the help guys

quote:

Originally posted by lowski dj rann, if you use the tempo slider to adjust to correct the ptcih then you lose the proper bpm. i found a way to get perfect match everytime but you can't touch the slider. that's one of the reasons i hated vinyl so much, you would need to adjust with the slider and you would lose the match you just had. miamitranceman what is a dvs? thanks for the help guys

Google Torq Conectiv, Serato Scratch Live, and Traktor Scratch. Those are the three most popular out there. In a nutshell, the program syncs your external decks with the decks on the program using control cds or control vinyl and you can manipulate your mp3s like actual vinyl or burned cds.
Some DVS's are more bare bones emulation, and others have effects, sampling, looping, video integration, etc.

Feel free to hop over to the Torq forums at http://www.torq-dj.com/forum/ and check out some of the vids.

quote:

Originally posted by lowski dj rann, if you use the tempo slider to adjust to correct the ptcih then you lose the proper bpm. i found a way to get perfect match everytime but you can't touch the slider. that's one of the reasons i hated vinyl so much, you would need to adjust with the slider and you would lose the match you just had. miamitranceman what is a dvs? thanks for the help guys

Hmmmmm.....So I think what you're doing is getting the BPM's of all the tracks you want to play and then doing the math to figure out what the % increase or decrease is for the new track coming in?


If I'm right, and you're doing it the "math" way, and you drop the cued track slightly off in terms of timing, then you still need to get it to match up, so rather than touching it with master tempo on, just do it with the pitch slider. For instance, in the case where the track coming is behind in terms of time, you just push the pitch slider slightly further than your calculated % until it's back in time, then just drop it back to that correct % when it's all timed perfectly. You do the same to slow it down.

but....

......You gotta learn to pitch mix man. What happens if you need to switch it up in a club and don't have a calculator handy or don't know the original bpm? What if the decks don't have bpm readouts or they don't work. I've been there and you can't rely on technology in club situations.....

Seriously, a great way to learn it is just ban yourself from touching the platter for a month. I promise you that if you do that it makes things so much easier, you won't have to use master tempo anymore, you'll be a better DJ for it.

Sorry if I'm waaay off base or got the wrong end of the stick and you already do this - I'm just having to guess from your answers.

hahah that's a good guess, quite entertaining, but no i don't do math. my mixing is really good. and yeah i used to pitch mix in clubs when i used vinyl, no problem. cdj is way better takes seconds to match and then you have nothing to do but wait until its time to bring it in

i actually tried not using the mt and not touching the platter last night, i actually had no problems. i still don't understand why pioneer would have a MT if it sounds so shitty, like seriously who could get away with using it. they need to fix that asap

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