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Sidechaining in ANY version of Cubase with ANY compressor (tutorial)

So this is something that has been plaguing me for years ... first I used Twisted Lemon which was super easy to use, but was such a crappy compressor. Then I tried DB Audioware, same problem, again. Later I found some videos on YouTube that use the Quad-Group Channel method. But this only works with compressors that support a specific sidechain input ... and all the compressors I could find that support this, again, suck.

Somewhat by chance, I found an excellent solution (almost a hack) for sidechaining in ANY version of Cubase with ANY compressor. My favorite is Waves SSL Master Buss.

I'm eventually going to improve this with pictures, etc, but for now, just text. Here is a Cubase SX 3 project of this setup using only plugins included with SX 3. I'll try to make sure the file is available for at least a few years ... http://www.alanmarcero.com/sidechain.zip

The "jist" of what I'm about to explain: Basically, you set up two group channels, each with the same compressor. On Group 1, you pan the kick hard left and the instrument hard right. On Group 2 you pan the kick hard right and the instrument hard left (panning is reversed from Group 1). Adjust the panning of each group so you only hear the instrument and there ya go ...

Detailed explanation:
Before anyone flips out in frustration, note that Cubase has this weird bug/feature where you can only route a Group channel to *another* Group channel if the output group channel was created *after* the source group channel. Yeah, it's dumb ...

Alrighty, so you're going to want to setup six group channels. Create and name them in the following order (note that above bug/feature):
Silent
Instrument L
Instrument R
Sidechain L
Sidechain R
Output

You'll also need your instrument (VSTi or Audio) and two duplicate Kick/Trigger outputs. Name them Bass, Trigger L, and Trigger R.

Now I'm just going to run down the settings for each of the nine channels

Bass: This is your instrument to be sidechained. Put at -30 db as it will somewhat act as the input/threshold for your compressors. Then in the Sends (to the right of where VST Inserts are) put in Instrument L and Instrument R both at 0db. You can put in your Insert FX (reverb, eq, distortion) here. On the top of the channel in the mixer, route to Silent.

Trigger L: This is your trigger/kick which will give the compressor "pump". Put this at 0db and pan all the way to the Right (even though it's named "L"). Route this to Sidechain L.

Trigger R: This is your trigger/kick which will give the compressor "pump". Put this at 0db and pan all the way to the Left (even though it's named "R"). Route this to Sidechain R.

Silent: Pull the volume slider all the way down.

Instrument L: Pan this all the way to the Left and route to Sidechain L.

Instrument R: Pan this all the way to the Right and route to Sidechain R.

Sidechain L: Pan this all the way to the Left and put in your compressor. For settings, you probably want a low (negative) threshold and a pretty high Ratio. Attack at 0 and a pretty quick release. Route to Output.

Sidechain R: Pan this all the way to the Right and put in your compressor. Give it identicle settings to the compressor in Sidechain L. Route to output.

Output: This should now have only the sidechained signal. You can increase the input gain on the top of the channel. You'll probably want it at about +12db and then adjust the slider as needed.

And there ya go ... On each compressor, the kick needs to be louder than the instrument. How much louder will affect how much of a sidechain effect you get. So basically, your two compressors are compressing the kick, but all your hear is the instrument. Neat huh?

Thanks for posting.

This is the method i use for sidechaining though, which seems alot easier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkl8B-0Ixs0

Dont know if you are familiar with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Thanks for posting. This is the method i use for sidechaining though, which seems alot easier. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkl8B-0Ixs0 Dont know if you are familiar with it.

This is a variation on the "Quadro" method I talked about. Again, you can only do this with compressors that support such a feature... which all suck. The point of this tutorial was to show how to sidechain using ANY compressor. Waves and UAD kick the shit out of Beatpuncher ...

quote:

Originally posted by alanzo This is a variation on the "Quadro" method I talked about. Again, you can only do this with compressors that support such a feature... which all suck. The point of this tutorial was to show how to sidechain using ANY compressor. Waves and UAD kick the shit out of Beatpuncher ...

Ok cool, will definitely check this out!

You can do the same in FL. Only in FL you mute the side chain channel. And the midi input controls the compressor via automation.

Sidechain is nothing more then triggered volumelowering.
Sidekick is fine for that. (you could eventually even just draw volume curves. for punch. colour or tone, you compres seperately without SC

True, Automation truly makes it all obsolete.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir True, Automation truly makes it all obsolete.

Sidechaining is automating the automation, duuuh!

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Sidechaining is automating the automation, duuuh!

Really?

Automating the compressor with MIDI rather than sidechaning? That sounds really dumb and inaccurate. I had a discussion with someone on the Anjunabeats forums about this. I think the discussion will help everyone here ...

quote:

if this works, I will literally become your slave.

Not gay, but I'm flattered. Dont' forget to check out the Cubase SX 3 project I included ... it should work on any Cubase SX 3,4,5 so long as you still have the included plugins installed.

quote:

it would seem like a fix that might not sound all that good.

Sounds great to me. The key is to make sure that 1. the kick and instrument are hard panned to opposite channels, and 2. to make sure the kick is considerably louder than the instrument. The kick will pass the compressors threshold, but the instrument won't resulting in both channels getting an equal and smooth reduction in dB; by panning out the kick, all you hear is the instrument.

A compressor that supports native sidechaining may act slightly different in that when sidechain is enabled, the compressor will only compress when the trigger passes the threshold. But I think that so long as the instrument is quieter than the trigger, this method works just as well. Even if you turn the instrument up to the same level as the kick, it doesn't sound like crap ... it just sounds like it would if you ran the two instruments through separate compressors.

Hrmmmmm ... maybe that's the key... since in order for a compressor to work in stereo, it's logically two compressors in one (you can see this when you look at UAD's Fairchild or Neve 33609). If you put the kick and the instrument on the same channel, it'll sound like crap because it's compressing the two together. But if you separate them entirely to opposite channels, it sounds just as if they both have their own compressor. So long as the kick is considerably louder than the instrument, only the kick will pass the compressor's threshold thus only triggering on the kick. Bam, I bet that's why this works so well ...

quote:

Out of interest, do you use Sonar, Logic or Cubase 4/5? Is this "workaround" as good as using an actual side-chain method?

I just use Cubase SX 3. I imagine that if you use your DAW's method of native sidechaining, it'll sound the same. Problem is, the plugin has to have a separate mutable sidechain input. The only plugin I've found that supports native sidechaining and sounds decent enough is otiumFX Compadre Beatpuncher. But I much-more like the idea of using my $250 UAD Neve compressor on my most important channel (bass line) rather than some plugin from a random company. For me, it's mostly an issue of trust.

you make things overly complicated

on track one you have A
on track 2 you have B

you want B to make space for A
that space has 4 dimensions:
- lowering volume
- time it takes to lower volume (attack)
- time to hold down volume (release)
- time it takes to release (knee)

you can either draw this yourself or have it triggered by a plug.
There is no "audiophile" side in Sidechaining, so it doesn't make any difference HOW you do it, as long as you have control over these 4 parameters.....

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie you make things overly complicated on track one you have A on track 2 you have B you want B to make space for A that space has 4 dimensions: - lowering volume - time it takes to lower volume (attack) - time to hold down volume (release) - time it takes to release (knee) you can either draw this yourself or have it triggered by a plug. There is no "audiophile" side in Sidechaining, so it doesn't make any difference HOW you do it, as long as you have control over these 4 parameters.....

It's all about quality. I would much rather use a real compressor on my bassline than some 2-bit hacked together plugin from an unknown company. If you're cool with freeware compressors and/or automating a compressor with MIDI, that's fine ... me, I prefer the best and that's what this thread is about.

quadro bus and "the glue" compressor for me.

though i'm waiting for someone to do me VST2 to VST3 bridge plugin with sidechain support.

sidechaining doesn't have much to do with quality, but everything with timing abd dynamics.

The SX3 method is for people who don't want to purchase 4 or 5 (for whatever (less)appearent reason.

Cubase 4/5 plugins provide great sidechain potential, if you know how to use them.
Also when you've got TC Electronics Powercore V3 software, you can sidechain all Powercore plugins via the sidechainer.
When you've got Duende, you sidechain the SSL channelstrip
for anything else you can use sidekick.

A software compressor is nothing else than an algorithm for dynamics and colouring.depending on the endorsement it might say to emulate certain outboard classics, but it's still maths providing emulations. it's not something analoque or rocket science.....

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie you make things overly complicated on track one you have A on track 2 you have B you want B to make space for A that space has 4 dimensions: - lowering volume - time it takes to lower volume (attack) - time to hold down volume (release) - time it takes to release (knee) you can either draw this yourself or have it triggered by a plug. There is no "audiophile" side in Sidechaining, so it doesn't make any difference HOW you do it, as long as you have control over these 4 parameters.....

If it is not acting on the kick you are playing it may sound odd/out of sync. I much prefer compression

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie A software compressor is nothing else than an algorithm for dynamics and colouring.depending on the endorsement it might say to emulate certain outboard classics, but it's still maths providing emulations. it's not something analoque or rocket science.....

Plenty of companies still manage to screw it up. Try sidechaining a pure sine wave through something crappy like Twisted Lemon or db Audioware. You should then hear all the digital artifacts I'm talking about.

More high quality compressors like Beatpuncher and probably a few others are great and don't have much (if any) digital artifacts. But this is a method for using ANY compressor the user wants ... even if it doesn't "support" sidechaining.

My other big gripe with using everything else on the market is that it's all very buggy. I haven't been able to find a single "compressor" that doesn't require re-configuration at start up or, in the case of Beatpuncher, would completely crap out.

True, hence it's better to embed it ASAP so it's secured and consistent during the mixing process
And a lot of "artifacts" are actually intended emulation of vintage outboard. (i.e. the clipping of the VU, the darkening/distortion of sound) also note that the biggest pitfall of all all VST compressor plugins is that they go apeshit on high ratio's and extreme thresholds. (i.e. 6/1 on -20db.) for some reason there still not able to emulate that properly.



In C4 and up, the best way to sidechain is using the "vintage compressor" which as VST3 can accept any triggersource AND keeps its settings. Sidekick is good for those sidechained strings and pads. you know the cheap overdone effect often heard on a lot "me too" tracks.

Bass sidechaining should be subtle in order to maintain drive an pressure.

quote:

Originally posted by alanzo Automating the compressor with MIDI rather than sidechaning? That sounds really dumb and inaccurate.

I'm trying to visualize how that would actually be done, and what advantage it would have over simply automating the volume. What parameters of the compressor would you tie to the MIDI note or CC - threshold? Ratio? Doesn't really make much sense...

The point of side-chained compression and really any compression is that it's transparent and you don't have to think about it.

quote:

Originally posted by alanzo Automating the compressor with MIDI rather than sidechaning? That sounds really dumb and inaccurate.

Open a blank channel, put a midi half note on each kick. The midi notes act as a controller for the compressor on/off. Set a envelope. Side Chain Complete. Don't know an easier way to do it. Adjust settings to fit the song.

Or you can do volume automation, but it won't be perfect if you do it manually.

i don't think cronodir is wrong in any regard.
it all depends on intention

using a midi trigger or automation is sometimes the best solution. It really just depends on the reason you are using sidechain compression.

*bump* ... I'm using this method on my new track. It works great! Can I get a posting on the master list, diginut? kthxbai

I tried doing this, but did not quite work out.. the compressor settings, and Trigger 1 and 2 i did not quite understand.

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle I tried doing this, but did not quite work out.. the compressor settings, and Trigger 1 and 2 i did not quite understand.

Try taking a look at the included cubase project

quote:

Originally posted by alanzo Try taking a look at the included cubase project

Yep I got it, worked. Okey when you use the compressor, you need to use 2 compressors and provide identical settings on both.. what is your trick there ? maybe channel linking would work ? Or do you just tune in one of the compressors and just copy the setting over to the other ?

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Yep I got it, worked. Okey when you use the compressor, you need to use 2 compressors and provide identical settings on both.. what is your trick there ? maybe channel linking would work ? Or do you just tune in one of the compressors and just copy the setting over to the other ?

I just copied the settings. Something like channel linking would be handy, does cubase have a feature like this?

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