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Tips / Tools to make the low end shine?

Looking for some good tips or a program (that isn't ridiculously priced) to help make the low ends shine. More interested in the tips part because it's not hard to do it with mastering tools. FWIW I use Ableton.

Hey Stephen.
I have a couple tips but you should be able to find lots of info using the search function

Firstly roll off low frequencies from all your tracks except your kick and bassline including your pad sounds... you can always add in lower end during your breakdowns.
Secondly..lol don't overdo it on the the reverb with your low end sounds.This will bring the sounds forward in the mix.Keep your lower bass and kick mono as well.
If you are programming your own sounds make sure to add some key tracking to your programs such that the lower you play down the keyboard the notes get a slight increase in volume.This will combat the natural "quieting" of your bass when your bassline drops.
Lastly be sure to compress your sounds.. There's a nice tutorial on here by David West callet "The perfect Kick" which will help alot

Well i hope this helps... I think its important to get all these things right during the production phase.
Wayne B

Its all about the source of the sound.

With a good source of bass sound you don`t really have to do much with it at all.

Oh... as for software I recommend PSP Vintage Warmer and BBE Sonic Maximizer. Also you must get Izotope Vinyl, It's free of charge, you just have to register via email.

usually the words bass & shine aren't in the same sentence. most people want their high end to shine. are you saying you want your bass to come thru more clearly?

eq with keytrack (on baselines ofcourse)

There is no such thing as a program to let the low end 'shine'. It's all a matter of proper mixing!

And a little tip, don't let anything come under 130 - 150Hz so you can keep that clear for the kick+(sub)bass.

the wording is a little strange. Bass and Shine are seldom used together.

You have an example of what you are trying to achieve ?

Best way is have good monitoring, with good monitoring you can't go wrong. Since bass is more of energy and feel portion of the track, and if you can feel it right, and hear it right, then you will have great bass. You have to know your monitors if you dont have the best bass feeling monitors.

As far as making them stand out, hi-pass cut as many tracks that are eating up 40-150hz frequencies that they should not be eating. Create space, and if the bass has higher frequencies during the attack phase, make sure you add some eq gain where it might need it in, usually somewhere between 1000khz-3000khz, so it stands out.

By shine I just meant clarity. I do roll off frequencies on all my tracks, even the bassline and sometimes the kick depending on which i'm using.

ill check out izotope vinyl.

i am doing all the obvious things like layering. One thing I have found to be quite helpful is parallel compression on the kick (and most all drums). I don't have too much trouble sitting a kick in a mix at the moment (knock on wood). I usually run them anywhere from 60-100hz (usually closer to 100.) Where I'm starting to run into problems is with the bass. To the poster who recommended raising the volume on lower notes, that is a great suggestion and can't believe I didn't think of it (it makes a lot of sense as lower frequencies are softer.) You would think compression would help with this, but I will def. check it out when I am back in the studio.

For the bassline, I compress it fairly hard and have been toying with some big band pass filters to help with frequency isolation but I'm not getting the type of results I was expecting. (Anybody ever try this with success?)

Are there any frequencies in the higher range that are notorious for effecting a bass line? I've read that boosting around 2 - 3 khz will make a bassline more snappy but I honestly don't hear shit when I boost there.

As for the source, of course I'm using good sources I've got some wicked virus sound fonts and I've created some sick patches in Blue. At this point I *think* it's more about EQing and proper use of FX. I'm still learning how each Ableton effect works on different instruments and frequencies and I'm guessing once I learn more about this I'll be able to improve the bass sound along with the rest. I really like the Saturator in Ableton but I don't ever hear anybody else talking about it? (I even think it sounds good on the master sometimes. I import all my DJ mixes to Ableton and apply a little Saturation to them along with the usual mastering)

clarity in bass is usually achieved by boosting the mid highs. But it is a trade off. A boost in the highs will make the bass area less pronounced. You mentioned that you tried this tho.

if it isn't working, then get a new bass sound, or change your arrangement. Life is too short

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Wiley By shine I just meant clarity. I do roll off frequencies on all my tracks, even the bassline and sometimes the kick depending on which i'm using. ill check out izotope vinyl. i am doing all the obvious things like layering. One thing I have found to be quite helpful is parallel compression on the kick (and most all drums). I don't have too much trouble sitting a kick in a mix at the moment (knock on wood). I usually run them anywhere from 60-100hz (usually closer to 100.) Where I'm starting to run into problems is with the bass. To the poster who recommended raising the volume on lower notes, that is a great suggestion and can't believe I didn't think of it (it makes a lot of sense as lower frequencies are softer.) You would think compression would help with this, but I will def. check it out when I am back in the studio. For the bassline, I compress it fairly hard and have been toying with some big band pass filters to help with frequency isolation but I'm not getting the type of results I was expecting. (Anybody ever try this with success?) Are there any frequencies in the higher range that are notorious for effecting a bass line? I've read that boosting around 2 - 3 khz will make a bassline more snappy but I honestly don't hear shit when I boost there. As for the source, of course I'm using good sources I've got some wicked virus sound fonts and I've created some sick patches in Blue. At this point I *think* it's more about EQing and proper use of FX. I'm still learning how each Ableton effect works on different instruments and frequencies and I'm guessing once I learn more about this I'll be able to improve the bass sound along with the rest. I really like the Saturator in Ableton but I don't ever hear anybody else talking about it? (I even think it sounds good on the master sometimes. I import all my DJ mixes to Ableton and apply a little Saturation to them along with the usual mastering)

Whered you get your virus soundfonts?

Only because I have a shitload and am always looking for more.
And yeh, a lot of times I'll take a virus lead and use it as a bass, will envelope it in a filter and just try to steal the harmonics from the font to dress up the main bass.
Then sometimes I'll throw it threw some bit crushing or distortion depending on the track.

Trilogy is also a great source for some solid bass sounds if you have never heard it

A friend sent me the Virus sounds. I don't know their exact origin (they were obviously ripped by somebody, but I don't know if it was a money type thing) - There are 119 different samples (not all bass, a bunch of random shit)

I have heard of Trilogy, but is it really worth the price tag?

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Wiley I have heard of Trilogy, but is it really worth the price tag?

Hands down, best VST for bass, and even better there a new one coming soon.

an update to trilogy or a better vst?

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Wiley an update to trilogy or a better vst?

Update to Trilogy.

It is going to be totally wicked fucking awesome.

And if you buy Trilogy in 2009 you get the update for free.

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Wiley an update to trilogy or a better vst?

Trilogy is a rompler like nexus but its dedicated to bass. Has sounds from all the popular synths juno, jupiter, virus, moog, odyssey, etc.

I can't really think of a single product that is as good for bass, unless you have a decent piece of hardware sitting around, which I don't. I'm gonna actually pm you a thought I just had.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox Trilogy is a rompler like nexus but its dedicated to bass. Has sounds from all the popular synths juno, jupiter, virus, moog, odyssey, etc. I can't really think of a single product that is as good for bass, unless you have a decent piece of hardware sitting around.

To be honest, if you really want great bass, get something like a Moog.. the bass from it is so good that you barely have to do anything with the recorded audio, it just sits right in the mix.

Trilogy is the VST instrument that sounds the most like it, and other analog bass synthesizers. Highly recommend it.

Neat.

So Trilogy + R-Bass = Top Shelf #1?

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Wiley Neat. So Trilogy + R-Bass = Top Shelf #1?

By R-Bass, do you mean the Waves bass enhancement plugin? The Waves effects have pretty hefty price tags, what is your definition of "ridiculously priced", as you referred to in your original post? (By the way, the Waves plugins aren't ridiculously priced in my book, I bought the gold bundle, they're good solid audio processors. The more expensive bundles are a bit out of my price range though).

Reading your posts though, I kind of get the impression that you expect the tools/ sounds to do a good bit of the work for you. You can have the greatest sounds, samples, plugins in the world, but if you don't put them together correctly you can make them sound absolutely horrible. There is no "automatic Top Shelf #1".

Maybe you'll need to apply some EQ. Maybe not. Maybe you'll need to apply some compression. Maybe not. Maybe Trilogy will offer you a lot of bass sounds which fit your style. Maybe not.

Having great sounds/ instruments/ samples is vital, but it's only the very start of the process. You'll still need to know why exactly you're applying R-Bass, why certain sounds fit together and other sounds don't (even though the sounds individually are fantastic). Get some great tools and spend a heap of time in the studio, learning how to get your low end to come through the way you want it.

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Wiley ill check out izotope vinyl.

The Izotope vinyl plugin, has no use regarding bass. It just simulates a 'vinyl' effect.

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Wiley Neat. So Trilogy + R-Bass = Top Shelf #1?

Trilogy alone is enough. If you put a R-Bass on top of it, you will get a much to heavy bass.

Just learn to layer your basslines and EQ them the right way. There are no such things as 'the best' plugin regarding bass. Many ways lead to Rome, you just have to pick the right road.

In regard to advice, I usually take the Trilogy 'Deeeeeeeeeeep' preset, and cutoff the high frequencies (>150Hz), this will create a nice subbass (I usually play the subbass -1 octave). Pull the attack up a little so it doesn't click that much and make sure, this subbass isn't playing at the same time as the kick and maybe route it to a SC compressor, just to make sure it has no conflicts with the kick. Most important, keep you subbass MONO en in the middle!!!

If you do this right, there is no need for bass enhancement or that kind of stuff, it will only creates a too heavy low-end, and you don't want that.

On top of that, you can create other types of basslines. Make sure they are cutoff below 150Hz.

Also a little tip to create a tight low-end, is tune the kick to the subbass, although this depends on the kick that you are using. I do it most of the times now, and it just sounds better.

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Its all about the source of the sound. With a good source of bass sound you don`t really have to do much with it at all.

100% agreed. I hate highpassing most of the sounds as it makes a mix sound very flat quite easily. My tip would be taking the time to find sounds that work well together with very little processing.

quote:

Originally posted by Storyteller 100% agreed. I hate highpassing most of the sounds as it makes a mix sound very flat quite easily. My tip would be taking the time to find sounds that work well together with very little processing.

Thats a good point that I've noticed as I've started high passing more. But I think highpassing can work on some of the more incidental sounds... Just need to be careful.

In terms of polishing bass stephen, you need to learn to program it. Using virus soundfonts is not on, it won't give the flexibility or sound quality you need.

What you need to get your bass sounding good:
Good filters
Good synth or two (need good oscillators for bass as the raw sound can't be disguised with effects)
Good idea of where the levels should be.
Some idea of what sub bass will sound like on a big system.

quote:

Originally posted by Storyteller 100% agreed. I hate highpassing most of the sounds as it makes a mix sound very flat quite easily. My tip would be taking the time to find sounds that work well together with very little processing.

ditto. no need to force things to work, just find a better source

quote:

Originally posted by Storyteller 100% agreed. I hate highpassing most of the sounds as it makes a mix sound very flat quite easily. My tip would be taking the time to find sounds that work well together with very little processing.

I like this tip as it's really what I've been doing, however I've kinda of exhausted my resources. I'm not a preset whore, but I'm not gonna lie and say I can construct a worthy bass note from scratch. I'm sure I could figure it out (and probably should) but I was just wanting to know the best resources for bass. I have found what I need though thanks to this thread. Thanks for answering my 1,000th question.

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