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What to look for in a turntable?

Hey guys,

I posted a similar thread a little while ago... asking whether I should get used technics vs. new stanton/numark/vestax etc. to use with traktor duo.

I am constantly checking craigslist/kijiji to see what comes up in terms of used turntables. BTW I know absolutely nothing about turntables, I've been using only CDJs until now.

Anyways... I see some good deals come up on kijiji/craigslist but I dont know what I should be looking for in a turntable.

i.e. some random turntable comes up like a stantion t.120 for instance... but I have no clue what type of features/characteristics I should be looking out for to signify which turntables are good/bad. One thing I've noticed is 'wow and flutter'; tried looking it up on google... seems to be some sort of natural error rate or something (can someone clarify?), what level of 'wow and flutter' is considered acceptable?

Overall what I am asking for here is: what features/characteristics should I be looking for in vinyl turntables?

You should look for the characteristics "1200" and "Technics", imo

quote:

Originally posted by david.michael You should look for the characteristics "1200" and "Technics", imo

hahaha, if I can find a good pair that I can afford I will defintiely get them.

But if I can get another pair for like half the price i would probably go for it, seeing that I already have CDJs and am just getting turntables for some fun, who knows if I will switch over to them full time or whatever. As of now, I am just getting them to screw around with so I can settle for something that isnt as good as the technics 1200s!

You should really look for a pair of in good condition used 1200's on craigslist. You can get really good deals right now, given the economy and people going CDJ/digital only.

One big reason is if you decide to sell them again, you can make back your money.

Other tables in the same league as 1200's: Stantion ST150's, Numark TTX, the high end Vestax. But those you won't likely come across.

There are a few "budget" decks that are "ok", but again, I wouldn't bother.

And to answer your question: Wow and flutter is a measurement of the irregularity in playback speed of the turntable. Since you are dealing with a rotating platter, the platter will vary in speed (just a tiny amount, not usually audible). This also happens with tape decks. If the wow and flutter is too great (as in many belt drive tables), it can make beatmatching more difficult.

quote:

Originally posted by teufel-man hahaha, if I can find a good pair that I can afford I will defintiely get them. But if I can get another pair for like half the price i would probably go for it, seeing that I already have CDJs and am just getting turntables for some fun, who knows if I will switch over to them full time or whatever. As of now, I am just getting them to screw around with so I can settle for something that isnt as good as the technics 1200s!

try to get your turntables in pairs.

chances are 2 used turntables sold together will have the same usage and the same kinks making it easier to mix. Turntables are not like cdjs, with usage over time they tend to develop characteristics of their own due to how they were used and such.

need i say that hi-end Stanton and Numark tts are > Techs?
guess not

quote:

Originally posted by boris_the_bear need i say that hi-end Stanton and Numark tts are > Techs? guess not

really?

Actually yes. The ST-150 and TTX are built really well, have higher torque, have niceties like line and digital outputs, switchable pitch range, removable cables, no need for ground, even key correction.

They aren't really any cheaper than 1200's, but you do get good more table for the money. Resale probably isn't a high though.

Personally I like the Stanton ST150's more than the TTX.

quote:

Originally posted by teufel-man really?

two words, technics 1200's, they are the industry standard of turntables. You'll find them in most clubs. The quality of the 1200 surpasses most of the turntables you see today.

quote:

Originally posted by orTof�nChiLd two words, technics 1200's, they are the industry standard of turntables. You'll find them in most clubs. The quality of the 1200 surpasses most of the turntables you see today.

Yeah I am totally aware of this, I just want to know what sort of things to look out for if I find a really good deal on something else.

I am in Toronto... and as far as i can tell the price for used tech 1200s seems to be about $400, wouldnt mind finding somethign more around the $250/table range if it will allow me to play records without any major drawbacks.

quote:

Originally posted by teufel-man Yeah I am totally aware of this, I just want to know what sort of things to look out for if I find a really good deal on something else. I am in Toronto... and as far as i can tell the price for used tech 1200s seems to be about $400, wouldnt mind finding somethign more around the $250/table range if it will allow me to play records without any major drawbacks.

well if you find something else rather than technics look for direct drive, wow and flutter and high torq for quick startups

my advice would be, keep checking ads, and try google for anything hidden. surely you can get a steal, if you wait around for it... whent he pitch is set to 0.00% difference the dots on the patter shouldnt be moving, so most of ur worries are included in there. next i guess i would be the toenarm, make sure its not fked up, not too hard to tell. also, practice getting the first beat, it shouldnt skip... but skips are retarded, hate them, even if youve calibrated your stuff it can still happen. I wouldnt get anything other than a used tech 12, even if theyre fucking ancient theyll still be over then decent. I grabbed this fucked up pair long time ago, they were atleast 6 years, the motor was still beautiful. Dont worry about things like one side of the cable doesnt work, you can get that fix or repair that shit yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by orTof�nChiLd well if you find something else rather than technics look for direct drive, wow and flutter and high torq for quick startups

quote:

Originally posted by msz my advice would be, keep checking ads, and try google for anything hidden. surely you can get a steal, if you wait around for it... whent he pitch is set to 0.00% difference the dots on the patter shouldnt be moving, so most of ur worries are included in there. next i guess i would be the toenarm, make sure its not fked up, not too hard to tell. also, practice getting the first beat, it shouldnt skip... but skips are retarded, hate them, even if youve calibrated your stuff it can still happen. I wouldnt get anything other than a used tech 12, even if theyre fucking ancient theyll still be over then decent. I grabbed this fucked up pair long time ago, they were atleast 6 years, the motor was still beautiful. Dont worry about things like one side of the cable doesnt work, you can get that fix or repair that shit yourself.

Thanks guys!

BTW whats this thing about the dots on the platter when the pitch is at 0.00%

Also... what type of needles/cartridges would be suitable for my purposes? I didn't realise they were so expensive! are that that important? Sorry for the noob questions... I dont want to spend $800 on used turntables and then have to shell out another $250 for needles/cartridges!

quote:

Originally posted by teufel-man Yeah I am totally aware of this, I just want to know what sort of things to look out for if I find a really good deal on something else. I am in Toronto... and as far as i can tell the price for used tech 1200s seems to be about $400, wouldnt mind finding somethign more around the $250/table range if it will allow me to play records without any major drawbacks.

Just save up and get Techs - everything else is just a copy, with more bells and whistles added, and there's really no need.

There's a reason Technics hold their resale value - it's becuase they're built like tanks and work so damn well. That difference of $150 is worth it I promise you.

Don't buy damaged decks or ones that have huge amounts of wear on them - not saying they won't work, it's just you don't want to have to service them as soon as you buy them.

You should be be able to pick up good condition second hand ones for a decent price, and it's an especially good time to buy them with the economy.

I'm a technics qualified service engineer and trust me, they got it right with the 1200's/1210's. It really is a feat of engineering. I know some people that are still using technics from the early 80's and all they do is have them serviced every few years.

MSZ adive is spot on in what to look for in a used pair. As more detail:

1, hold the gimball suspension mount (where the tonearm pivots) and very gently push it against the directions of their normal travel - it should not have play.
2, Check for excessive wear around the ptich slider and start stop button (these are signs it's been caned).
3, The tonearm base, when in the "locked" position (with the little slider behind the antiskate dial) should not move.
4, The platter should not move beyond a little flex (3mm?) when a small amount of pressure is applied to the edge.
5, Check that the pitch slider is smooth across it entire span - but more often than you'll find the part from 0 to +4 is is slightly looser/easier to push - this is perfectly normal. What you're looking for is a gritty/grinding feel at any point in the slider.
6, Check the pop up light actually work. I've seen a lot of people buy used ones who forgot to check and then they're pissed when it doesn't work. It's not a big fix even if it doesn't (takes about half an hour and $5 worth of parts).

Basically if it fails on any of these by a small amount then it's still worth buying but get a further discount. If any of these are more than a little, either make them an offer with the cost of a full service discounted (around $80-$100 per deck) or walk away.

hope this helps and good luck - let us know how you get on!!

Stanton 500's will be fine for beginner use and shouldn;t set you back more than what $30 each. Personally I like Ortofon Concords becasue of their frequency response but they go for about $70 each and upwards depending on the model.

good post dj rann

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN

Thanks for the post/advice man! Yeah I will definitely hold out for the technics then, will have to save up a little more cash though!

the shure m44-g or m44-7 needles are a good beginner needle too that will last you a good while and aren't that expensive, you'll need the headshell though as well, the sc35c carts are the first ones i started out with

otherwise you could go with the shure whitelabels, which are the needle i use

only whitelabels touch my whitelabels

http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Produ...edles/index.htm

Alright I got another question...... I dont know jack shit about needles/cartridges but I have a feeling that more expensive needles/cartridges lead to better sound quality.

So if my assumption is true.... if I am using traktor scratch, wouldnt the quality of the needle not matter since the sound is playing from the computer and not from the record... and the needle is only reading the timecode from the record? or would a better quality needle read the timecode better (if this is even possible)?

quote:

Originally posted by orTof�nChiLd the 1200 surpasses most of the turntables you see today.

surpass in what? oh...don't bother

quote:

Originally posted by teufel-man Alright I got another question...... I dont know jack shit about needles/cartridges but I have a feeling that more expensive needles/cartridges lead to better sound quality. So if my assumption is true.... if I am using traktor scratch, wouldnt the quality of the needle not matter since the sound is playing from the computer and not from the record... and the needle is only reading the timecode from the record? or would a better quality needle read the timecode better (if this is even possible)?

ortofon makes the digitrack needles desinged for dvs use

they obviously work for analog records too

it's page #3 under "Products":
http://www.ortofon-dj.com/disco/

quote:

Originally posted by teufel-man I am in Toronto... and as far as i can tell the price for used tech 1200s seems to be about $400, wouldnt mind finding somethign more around the $250/table range if it will allow me to play records without any major drawbacks.

It may be worth it to watch for deals for a while.

I got a PAIR of 1210's for just over $400, with carts and coffins.

Not that this is at all typical, I know I got them for a steal.

get a pair of technics from walmart

quote:

Originally posted by david.michael It may be worth it to watch for deals for a while. I got a PAIR of 1210's for just over $400, with carts and coffins. Not that this is at all typical, I know I got them for a steal.

So the pair was $400, or $400 per table?

When I said $400 I meant per deck! If you got the pair for that much then thats an incredible deal!

Even $400 each + carts and coffins isnt a bad deal...

quote:

Originally posted by teufel-man So the pair was $400, or $400 per table? When I said $400 I meant per deck! If you got the pair for that much then thats an incredible deal! Even $400 each + carts and coffins isnt a bad deal...

Yeah, I got it for a little over $400 (or just under $500... can't remember the exact price) for the pair. Not typical at all, granted.

dawg i remember i paid 600 for 2 5yearsold techs, and mixer in etobicoke, some gay dj was sellin and i had to sanitize my gear shortly after to not recieve his aids

i passed on the savings when i sold, about 500$

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