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clairvoyancey, spiritual healing and****..

does anyone actually believe in this?, or does anyone see a clairvoyant?

reason for my asking is:

my missus's mum see's one every once in a while, and tonight my misuss went with her, and the clairvoyant type lady person picked up on me having panic disorder, thruogh my missus [fuck knows how].

the lady said i need 'healing' and she would be willing to do it for free, for as many sessions as it requires, all free of charge, and guarantee's my fianc� that she can cure me.

im gonna give it a shot, as this illness is an absolute nightmare to live with. I have tried meds,, hypnotherapy and stuff, but nothing has worked, so im willing to give it a shot.

but has anyone else tried anything like this?

I'm usually skeptical of other people being able to "cure" through clairvoyancy (is that a word?). First, I would find out from the missus if she happened to mention your illness offhand in conversation with the "clairvoyant." That's a pretty common trick that some sneaky bastards will use.

I do believe in the ability to heal oneself with the power of the mind, but I don't believe it's possible for one human to do the same for another person. I see it as an internal characteristic only, and even then it is one that VERY FEW people can recognize, let alone control.

This "clairvoyant" may be able steer you in the right direction only if you're willing to help yourself.

Just my two cents.

quote:

Originally posted by Brian Scott I'm usually skeptical of other people being able to "cure" through clairvoyancy (is that a word?). First, I would find out from the missus if she happened to mention your illness offhand in conversation with the "clairvoyant." That's a pretty common trick that some sneaky bastards will use. I do believe in the ability to heal oneself with the power of the mind, but I don't believe it's possible for one human to do the same for another person. I see it as an internal characteristic only, and even then it is one that VERY FEW people can recognize, let alone control. This "clairvoyant" may be able steer you in the right direction only if you're willing to help yourself. Just my two cents.

well it was Zoe's [my misuss]'s mum who went for the 'reading?' but Zoe just went with her for the journey, but apparently the lady was picking up on my house because of Zoe being there, she then went on to describe what my living room looks like, and said something about how our toilet seat is broken [which it is] and also said to Zoe that she should be careful on the toilet seat with her back [cos she has a bad back]. she picked up on all this while trying to ascertain her mums 'energy?'. and then went onto say "do you have anxiety?" to which Zoe replied, no but my boyfriend does, she then says "ahh he has a disorder?" so Zoe replies, yeah he has panic disorder, and she says "well he needs to come see me, he needs healing"

im usually skeptical about this stuff too, but from what the missus says it all sounds real enough.

with regards to spiritual healing, i dunno, i guess your right about only being able to help yourself. but if this woman can visualize and predict these things, then perhaps she can do some good for me. god knows [no im not religious fuck off] id do anything to get rid of this illness

Lemme know how this goes, I'm curious to know what the person will do

Well if she's offering to do it for free, go for it. I see no harm in it.


edit: whoa fuck, I just had a deja vu/totally dreamt about this ages ago. Seriously, lol.

Re: clairvoyancey, spiritual healing and****..

quote:

Originally posted by [N]�k|��[Z] does anyone actually believe in this?

i do, mostly.



check out this book: "the holographic universe" by michael talbot

people that believe in this bullshit make me irrationally angry.

I think the successful ones are very good psychologists.. probably more on an intuitive level. I guess they might even have some success treating a mental disorder. It won't have anything to do with spooky clairvoyance tho.

Have u tried therapy or psychoanalysis?

quote:

Originally posted by astroboy I think the successful ones are very good psychologists.. probably more on an intuitive level. I guess they might even have some success treating a mental disorder. It won't have anything to do with spooky clairvoyance tho. Have u tried therapy or psychoanalysis?

there is no such thing as spooky clairvoyance

it is a natural phenomenon that will eventually be understood in a scientific way.


i don't understand this vintage idea that people have that the material world and the world of the spirit and mind are somehow separate

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec there is no such thing as spooky clairvoyance it is a natural phenomenon that will eventually be understood in a scientific way. i don't understand this vintage idea that people have that the material world and the world of the spirit and mind are somehow separate

I have a belief in an element of humanity that is beyond what is currently described by physics (call it a spirit or animus or whatever) that stems from my philosophical understanding of free will. However I wouldn't speculate as to the specifics of what it's nature is or how it works, because there is no evidence.

What I don't understand is how:

a) Someone can simply accept what they are being told without questioning it.

b) How someone can believe something for which there is no observable evidence. Particularly when there is a clear explanation involving phenomena for which there is a wealth of scientific evidence. It's pure belief flying in the face of reason..

Occam's fucking razor people!

It just all seems so arbitrary.



PS - no offence to your personal beliefs. Judging by ur avatar you've got a good taste in films so you can't be all bad

quote:

Originally posted by astroboy Occam's fucking razor people!

i hate when people say that

occam's razor tends to be completely relative to the current zeitgeist, or used in favor of anyone's argument.

let me use it :


i tend to think that occam's razor would rather disprove the existence of a bajillion types of mysterious and spurious subatomic particles and support the notion that we create their semblance simply by looking for them.

"Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily."


the whole of materialist science is an attempt to multiply/divide entities rather than to unify them.

^ Some varieties of physicalism (e.g. Quine) define "physicality" in terms of perceptions:

quote:

The physical conceptual scheme simplifies our account of experience because of the way myriad scattered sense events come to be associated with single so-called objects; still there is no likelihood that each sentence about physical objects can be translated, however deviously and complexly, into the phenomenalistic language. Physical objects are postulated entities which round out and simplify our account of the flux of experience, just as the introduction of irrational numbers simplifies laws of arithmetic. From the point of view of the elementary arithmetic of rational numbers alone, the broader arithmetic of rational and irrational numbers would have the status of a convenient myth, simpler than the literal truth (namely, the arithmetic of rationals) and yet containing that literal truth as a scattered part. Similarly, from a phenomenalistic point of view, the conceptual scheme of physical objects is a convenient myth, simpler than the literal truth and yet containing that literal truth as a scattered part.

Quine - "On What There Is" (full article)

^ Worth a read, if you're into philosophy and ontology.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec i hate when people say that occam's razor tends to be completely relative to the current zeitgeist, or used in favor of anyone's argument. let me use it : i tend to think that occam's razor would rather disprove the existence of a bajillion types of mysterious and spurious subatomic particles and support the notion that we create their semblance simply by looking for them.

You may be right... and you may be proved right in due course. Sometimes I think quantum mechanics will turn out to be the voodoo of the 20th century. People will look back and say "what the fuck were they smoking".. don't get me started on string theory. Or they might turn out to be right .

I just think when I hear something like this:

quote:

and then went onto say "do you have anxiety?" to which Zoe replied, no but my boyfriend does, she then says "ahh he has a disorder?" so Zoe replies, yeah he has panic disorder, and she says "well he needs to come see me, he needs healing"

I tend to think either she iseither:

- tapping into the astral realm to divine this information, or

- she's just poking and prodding with vague questions and homing in on details as she gets more information from the person she's reading. She can read people's reactions/body language and verbal cues very well.. but I wouldn't say there's anything "supernatural" or spiritual about what's happening.

Seems comon sense to take the latter explanation because it doesn't require as many outlandish assumptions.


Accepting the former explanation requires particular credulousness. If I told you I'm typing this psychically without actually touching the keyboard would you assume a whole new unexplored branch of science into existence to make my telekinesis possible or just assume I'm lying (the most elegant possible solution)?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec i don't understand this vintage idea that people have that the material world and the world of the spirit and mind are somehow separate

and i don't understand this archaic idea that there is a world of the spirit.

Re: clairvoyancey, spiritual healing and****..

quote:

Originally posted by [N]�k|��[Z] does anyone actually believe in this?

Sadly, yes.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN and i don't understand this archaic idea that there is a world of the spirit.

lol you're missing the entire point of what i was attempting to say.

there is no world of the spirit. spirit is matter, matter is spirit.

matter is like the particle state of a quantum, spirit like the wave.

spirit exists without time and space. in the act of observing/perceiving/becoming aware of this spirit/energy/information/idea, it assumes particle form.

they are two nonlocal aspects of the same essential truth.

if spirit is matter, how does matter exist without time or space?

Re: Re: clairvoyancey, spiritual healing and****..

quote:

Originally posted by ******** She's trying to take your sole, if she's hot do it, it'll be fun...

OR


?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec matter is like the particle state of a quantum, spirit like the wave.

This is the essence of the wave...

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN if spirit is matter, how does matter exist without time or space?

it doesn't



at least not like it appears to. try to find an electron in space.

Plus time and space are observer-relative.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec it doesn't at least not like it appears to. try to find an electron in space.

Cant we know where it is, just not where its going? (or reverse).

I dunno, you're getting me all confused when all I wanted to do was make fun of people who believe in psi powers.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Cant we know where it is, just not where its going? (or reverse).

that's the point - basically the scientific consensus is that the particle appears only when you decide to look for it.

then it looks like matter really isn't all it's cracked up to be


or in fact could be much, much, much more.

Haha, PKC doesn't get it!!


*points*

Electrons are represented as probability densities rather than point-particles, I think.



There's lively philosophical debate about whether the representations should be taken as "true" or just useful conceptual tools:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-r...lism_in_Science

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