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should i bother getting monitors if my room isn't treated properly

well ta, here's the deal:

for the past year i've been using nothing but headphones for music production & recreational purposes ie. music, movies,etc. not only is this unhealthy for my ears but it's also really frustrating when i listen to my productions with speakers and the levels are totally off; low end is too loud; bassline vanished; kick overpowers everything & what have you. because of this block, i took a 5-7 month break from the audio engineering aspect(still am) & just focused on musical composition.

but the long wait is over, or at least i thought. i was planning on going out today to look at yamaha hs80m's & hs50m's but guess the funk what? that's right, room acoustics hits me in the face. most of the rooms in my house suck acoustically(hollow walls & such) and i've yet to build any basstraps & the like.

so my question is, is room treatment that big of a deal? should i drop money on monitors if my room isn't treated properly? i mean, i could do some things like hanging up thick blankets, leave my clothes closet open, and maybe even dragging my queen size bed into the room and have it sitting vertically.

damn this shit!! didn't think this would be such a burden

short version: should i bother getting monitors if i have crappy walls and all that funk.

thanks ta

Re: should i bother getting monitors if my room isn't treated properly

quote:

Originally posted by hundred short version: should i bother getting monitors if i have crappy walls and all that funk. thanks ta

yes...they are pretty much just better than average speakers..and it seems you are only producing on headphones...so I ask why not?

Of course. I would say that 9/10 people here with monitors have an untreated room.

Bruz, room acoustics aren't that important if you're only getting HS80Ms. If you're getting cheap monitors like that, just do the best with what you have - position them properly, probably get monitor stands and rearrange things in your room. Probably Mackies and above are when you should start to think about acoustic treatment.

Just keep the distance between the monitors as small as possible. This fixed most acoustic problems for me at my old place which was atrocious. It will make a smaller sweet spot but that shouldn't be too big of an issue to overcome.

alright thanks for the advice lads, i'll go ahead and purchase the hs50m's.

quick question: in the monitor thread, someone mentioned how yamaha hs80m is good for acoustic music and not edm. is this true? does it apply for all yamaha studio monitors? a friend of mine today said the same thing when i told him i was going to cop hs50m's for mixing.

don't treat the room

buy the yamaha's

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Wiley don't treat the room buy the yamaha's

i can't tell if you're being sarcastic or serious but thanks

yamaha is a good company, i'm sure you'll be fine

I tend to decide whether or not my room needs treatment by ear ... if when, for example, you play a soloed kick drum and you hear a lot of reverberation from the room when the sample is done playing, there's a problem.

Yes, there are frequency problems even if there's no echo/reverb in your room, but for the most part, those problems are in the lower frequencies. I definitely noticed a difference when I put in bass traps, but if there was no reverb/echo in my room to begin with, I doubt I would have heard much difference in higher frequencies.

To do a simple test, just sit in your mixing position and snap your fingers ... make loud short noises and listen to how the room sounds. If you hear a lot more than your finger snapping, there's a problem.

Try doing that test and post back with your findings ...

quote:

Originally posted by hundred alright thanks for the advice lads, i'll go ahead and purchase the hs50m's. quick question: in the monitor thread, someone mentioned how yamaha hs80m is good for acoustic music and not edm. is this true? does it apply for all yamaha studio monitors? a friend of mine today said the same thing when i told him i was going to cop hs50m's for mixing.

I have the hs50's and am soon upgrading to hs80's. People say that because they are flat monitors. They are actually more ideal than other similarly priced monitors if you use a sub. If you don't some people don't like mixing on them because they have a lot of mid and high range in them but the low isn't as emphatic as other monitors. This is why they're called flat eq monitors. I find it much easier to mix on them but they just don't sound as pleasing while doing so. Depends if you want something to mix easily on or something slightly more difficult to mix with that sounds a little better. Just make sure you have some other references for your tracks if you get them, or as I said, pick up a sub as well. Either way you'll be fine.

quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1 or as I said, pick up a sub as well.

this is bad advice.

if you are planning on getting a 2.1 system, you should use 6-7" monitors, not 8". 8" monitors try to be a 2.1 (or 3-way monitor) replacement, by sacrificing the mid range. to get accurate mids, 6-7" is the biggest you should go in a 2 way monitor, unless you are spending a lot of money (Genelec, Event OPAL and so on). the ideal mid woofer size is around ~3-5", like you will see on most 3 way monitors. hence, even 6-7" is a compromise.

hs50ms are too small to be of any real use on their own. likewise, they do not have the bass extension to crossover with a sub well at 90hz. i wouldn't buy them... ever. a 6-7" woofer in a 2-way monitor is the least and the most that you should use with a sub.

my advice...

1. get 8" monitors, accept the less than ideal midrange and do not buy a sub.

or

2. buy a pair of 6-7" monitors and maybe think about getting a sub later on. be aware though, that subs have their own set of problems. among other things, you are pretty much guaranteed to need some kind of acoustic treatment.

No sub required if your monitors are decent enough. Bass traps help with hearing lower frequencies as well, I also like to put a low pass cut on my tracks to do a 'bass check' periodically.

I have the HS80M's along with an ESI JULI@ sound card. Running TRS.

Was wondering if there are any trips & tracks and do's / dont do's for these monitors

Here is a link to my soundcard....would love to hear some feedback from you autophiles to see if you think it is a good back for the buck.



http://www.esi-audio.com/products/julia/

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Wiley I have the HS80M's along with an ESI JULI@ sound card. Running TRS. Was wondering if there are any trips & tracks and do's / dont do's for these monitors

They are rear ported, so don't put them in front of a window. Also, make sure they are at least 50cm away from the back wall.

Other than that, the normal monitor positioning rules apply:
1. equilateral triangle with listening position, 90-120cm at all lengths
2. decouple them from your desk or use stands.

I always recommend using passive volume control. Most affordable controllers aren't that good quality though (eg. SM Pro Audio), so you are probably best off buying an attenuator and making it yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Wiley Here is a link to my soundcard....would love to hear some feedback from you autophiles to see if you think it is a good back for the buck.

The Juli@s have decent enough ADC/DAC, for a home studio. You shouldn't need to ever upgrade, unless you need more IO.

dude just get monitors, they are sweet

a room treatment is for later!

Well I'd say that you'll notice a huge difference with some proper monitors, but they won't shine to their full potential in an untreated room.
You'll be able to do better with monitors, you'll just have to realize that you're missing on 40%-ish of what you can get out of them.
Some acoustic foam placed with a mirror test (generally you go around the walls with a mirror and wherever you can see the position your monitors are in the mirror, there's the place for foam or carpets&likewise high frequency absorbant material), with assuring you at least break the 90 degree angles of the corners, not necessarily those really expensive proper bass traps, you could treat your room from crap to pretty managable for I'd say 100euro.

TL;DR: monitors now will surely be better, you just won't get the maximum from them without at least basic acoustic treatment.

I got by on producing in untreated rooms for years, so it's certainly not impossible to get good mixes.

Just makes sure of the following:

* If possible sit at 40% of the length of the room.
* Make sure your monitors are facing down the longest wall of the room.
* Have your monitors set up in an equal triangle from your seat.
* Try to avoid a room that has all walls/ceiling of the same height.
* Take your mixes & check them on as many other systems as possible, this will help you learn the pitfalls of your room & how to get around them until you get treatment.

thanks for the tips guys

quote:

Originally posted by Getafix * If possible sit at 40% of the length of the room. * Make sure your monitors are facing down the longest wall of the room.

hey getafix, what exactly do you mean by this? i think i know what you mean but i'm not quite sure.

yeah, i think i'll be going with hs80m..shit, i keep jumping back and forth.

This picture might help clear out what i meant.


So like in the picture, you should make sure that your monitors are facing the wall that is furthest away from your seating position.

The 40% rule is also easy, suppose your room is 10 feet long. Your seating position should be 4 feet from the wall facing you. Hope this helps.

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