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Does electronic music in a movie make it seem "dated?"

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Electronic music dates a film and makes it seem corny. These people are investing hundreds of millions of dollars and they want their movies to be classic. ...If you want to see the tragiic consequence of an electronic score, watch "Logan's Run." It's a joke. All these silly, squirty, analog synthesizers trying to seem "futuristic." Ugh.

From an interesting thread on the "Gearslutz" forum.

I have to say that I sort of agree, at least in the case of some of the early movies to feature prominent electronic soundtracks, like A Clockwork Orange. Maybe it's a bit heretical to say this, but I found the electronic parts of that soundtrack to be quite cheesy in spite of the fact that they consist mostly of electronic "re-works" of famous classical pieces. It wasn't the music but rather the sounds themselves that struck me as embarrassingly dated. I guess some people now might see this as having a kind of kitschy charm to it, but it seems to me it's impossible to take it seriously in the "futuristic" way it was probably intended.

Of course, it's possible that electronic soundtracks of today will end up sounding less dated as they tend to be less "dry" and have a more natural and spacious use of reverb that doesn't put the "synthetic" character of the sounds front and center. And they also tend to mix in more samples and conventional orchestral sounds as well.

Any thoughts?

It's not like Clockwork Orange would look nondated without the music. Those old movies are dated, period. That the music used in them sounds dated as well is just a logical consequence.

Fortunately, not to most viewers. I say leave the good stuff out of the movies.

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Originally posted by creon444 It's not like Clockwork Orange would look nondated without the music. Those old movies are dated, period. That the music used in them sounds dated as well is just a logical consequence.

But I think Kubrick's 2001, for example, has aged much better in spite of being made three years before Clockwork Orange, and I think at least part of this is attributable to the kind of music used -- leaving aside the fact that the popularity of 2001 turned Strauss's Zarathustra into a cliche. Of course the filming techniques make both movies look dated, but I'm interested only in the effect of the soundtracks.

But I don't think you could find an old movie with dated music in it that would all of a sudden seem less time-worn if you removed the music. Everything seems rusty in such movies.

There are "dated" sounds from every decade, i guess. In the 70s electronic music and synthesizers were much of a novelty, so you get all these rudimentary exercises that might have been cool and futuristic back then but perhaps do not really integrate with and help the films that much, and rather can be seen as distracting. In the 80s you have that more expensive-sounding, at times bombastic but ultimately plastic and still primitive sound where you go "hey, this is from the 80s!". Everybody got all these new awesome synths and used the same presets everywhere. In the 90s you get raw TB-303s, dry hedonistic dance beats and shit.

As you say, the use of electronic instruments and sound sources has matured over the years, in film music and in music in general. There are highs and lows everywhere. Many times what sounds dated or distracting can be a matter of context, type of movie etc. The retro and kitsch factors are not be underestimated, such aspects can be very valuable.

There are examples of artistically highly successful electronic scores, the most obvious example is Blade Runner, from the early 80s. It's one of those where i wouldn't want the music to be any different than it is, it never sounds cheesy to me. It's not only an integral part of the film but it also elevates it. It's not transparent, it wants to be noticed and it certainly doesn't sound like something from 2009, but it also has the more general traits of Vangelis' music which aren't specifically an 80s thing. It has (for us in 2009) some of the retro element but it also stands out together with the visuals as a unique vision of the future, ergo 'retro-future'. It stands alone in bubble of sorts that isn't our past, certainly not the present and probably not quite our future.

depends on the movie. if it where a movie from the middle-age or whatever it would be lol.

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Originally posted by SMC There are "dated" sounds from every decade, i guess. In the 70s electronic music and synthesizers were much of a novelty, so you get all these rudimentary exercises that might have been cool and futuristic back then but perhaps do not really integrate with and help the films that much, and rather can be seen as distracting. In the 80s you have that more expensive-sounding, at times bombastic but ultimately plastic and still primitive sound where you go "hey, this is from the 80s!". Everybody got all these new awesome synths and used the same presets everywhere. In the 90s you get raw TB-303s, dry hedonistic dance beats and shit.

That's exactly the sort of thing I have in mind, the "have novel instrument, must use!" mentality that seems to have inspired some of the synth use in soundtracks. But then later it makes them seem like ridiculous victims of a trend.

Like you, I enjoy the Bladerunner soundtrack, although apparently some people put it in the same "plastic" category we have in mind. I remember reading an interview with Paul Lansky, the experimental computer musician famously sampled by Radiohead in "Idioteque":

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Interviewer: Do you feel that the tried and tested orchestral scores for blockbuster film soundtracks should be making way for more digitally produced music? A case in point is Blade Runner, in which Vangelis produced an awe inpiring soundtrack that worked so well with the visuals. Couldn't the recent assault on The Rock have faired equally as well with the same kind of treatment instead of the usual Philharmonic Orchestra treatment? Lansky: I think that Hollywood has done a really crummy job using sound machines for soundtracks. I'm sorry to say that I did not like the Vangelis track. It sounded to me like the kind of plastic synthesizer music I've grown allergic to. I think that the use of real instruments in recent movies is a reaction to this kind of thing. It really got to sound cheap and artificial. Commercial synthesizers were used much too much. For one reason or another, the sound of synthesizer soundtracks has come to be associated with low budget films, and the sound of orchestras with high budget ones. Unfortunately the music is often no better in either, it just depends on the budget. There is often an underlying assumption in questions like this that machines are eventually going to take over the job of making music. I feel pretty confident that this is not the way things are going to go.

http://www.electronicmusic.com/feat...paullansky.html

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles That's exactly the sort of thing I have in mind, the "have novel instrument, must use!" mentality that seems to have inspired some of the synth use in soundtracks. But then later it makes them seem like ridiculous victims of a trend. Like you, I enjoy the Bladerunner soundtrack, although apparently some people put it in the same "plastic" category we have in mind. I remember reading an interview with Paul Lansky, the experimental computer musician famously sampled by Radiohead in "Idioteque": http://www.electronicmusic.com/feat...paullansky.html

It is certainly to some extent a matter of personal background, experience, taste, sense for subtleties. There might be a line somewhere that divides plastic/cheesy and appropriate/tasteful, it's probably thin. When it comes to Blade Runner i think it just "hits the note", it walks the line between the two sides. I'm not really a huge Vangelis fan in general.

i would say that it's probably true that highly electronic scores become very dated, just as the technology that formed the basis of those soundtracks becomes dated over time.

The instruments that make up an orchestra on the other hand, have been used so long and are so established that they no longer belong to any time period...only the style that they are played in can seem to "date" the scores.

Two words:

Blade Runner

Case closed. The movie, the music, the visuals - the result was a movie that spawned a generation of die-hard fans, and the film has been immortalized since then. The music MADE that movie. I was blown away by the combination.

For some movies, yes, for others the music might be bad. Its all about selection.

Electronic music was great in such films as Matrix and Terminator - the couple I can think of. Not so good in movies like Hackers and The Beach, IMO.

Inspiring music at the right time in a good film is a PERFECT combination.

I personally like movie scores. My favourites apart from Blade Runners have to be Total Recall and Planet of the Apes (2001).

EDIT: So what that music may make some movies "dated"? Nothing wrong with that, but rather is gives a movie a classic touch.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium EDIT: So what that music may make some movies "dated"?

Because "dated" music can sound cheesy and annoying, detracting from the enjoyment of the film, at least for me.

I agree with everything SMC said, really.

Now, my own bit: I think it's correct to say that some movies featuring electronic music seem dated, but it�s not specifically because they contain electronic music, it�s because the music itself has dated. Listen to �Strings of Life� outside the context of anything else. It sounds incredibly tinny and primitive. Put this into a movie and voila! The movie is �dated�.

Electronic music is still very much in a stage of development, whereas rock, classical and all other kinds of music are into the period where the music doesn�t change much from decade to decade. As SMC said, it�s very easy to pick which decade electronic music has come from. Firstly, because the technology is still advancing, and secondly, because the range of sounds available to electronic musicians is much greater than non-electronic musicians, there are cyclical trends where certain sounds and themes become more popular or fall by the wayside.

Lastly, people have mentioned �Blade Runner�. What about �The Godfather�? Giorgio Moroder did a stellar job with that and I think it still sounds fresh.

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Originally posted by Domesticated Now, my own bit: I think it's correct to say that some movies featuring electronic music seem dated, but it�s not specifically because they contain electronic music, it�s because the music itself has dated.

Well, yeah, I think the point is that electronic music doesn't automatically "date" a film, but it's more likely to do so than a conventional orchestral score is, because electronic music relies so much for its sound on the state of technology at the time. Like you said, it's always developing.

I quite like synth classical (in particular in clockwork orange, cosmos and blade runner). Clockwork orange looks quite dated just from the camera quality, haircuts and everything else anyway. Just depends on how much you like certain aspects of the 70s really. I think synths will probably sound a lot less dated from the 90s onwards (just because of the fact that the unstable pitch is nearly gone in the early 90s onwards and then comepletely gone with digital synths, so a pad sound will likely sound more similar).

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Originally posted by Domesticated Electronic music is still very much in a stage of development, whereas rock, classical and all other kinds of music are into the period where the music doesn�t change much from decade to decade.

If we're talking metal or indie rock or anything, they did not exist in the 80s, and I'd place a bet they'd sound very different in 10 years. I mean atreyu (a fairly emo influenced metalcore band) featured in underworld evolution. Doesn't sound too dated atm, but probably will in 10 years.

Then again I'm getting the feeling this is more about the abstract sortof movies that people might be still likely to watch in 20 years.

Blade Runner does sound a bit plasticky but it suits the movie well.

I think the worst part of the score is the tenor sax love theme.

i see what the OP means, but if it's done well it works for the film. it worked for... ehhhhh... the matrix, i guess.

i think a good example of a film feeling dated from too much electronic music is "hackers." still have a soft spot for the movie (and the soundtrack) though

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Originally posted by Domesticated Lastly, people have mentioned �Blade Runner�. What about �The Godfather�? Giorgio Moroder did a stellar job with that and I think it still sounds fresh.

That was Nino Rota. Oh, maybe you're talking about Scarface?

I don't understand why people keep citing The Matrix as an example. First of all the actual score is orchestral. Then the movie features a wide mix of tracks by various artists ranging from rock and metal with industrial leanings to electronic music in the form of big beat and trip hop, which is quite organic-sounding electronic music.

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Originally posted by Darkarbiter If we're talking metal or indie rock or anything, they did not exist in the 80s

That is preposterous.

people's opinions on movie soundtracks are influenced by society trends and standards. most movies have organic sounds like orchestras for a spaceship scene or acoustic guitar for a sunset scene. its been that way for a long time, but even then you can tell a time period of a movie. for example an old black and white movie from the 50's with violins, piano, horns sounds way different than a movie from the 80's using the same exact instruments.

im glad some movie makers have the balls to make a soundtrack a little different than movies in the past, because then that changes the standards a little bit. at what point did the music in movies of the 50's change to what it sounds like in the 70's, 80's, etc? when some brave soul decided to make music that sounds a little bit different (even though the same instruments were used).

the thing with movie music, is that most of it is ominous tones to create moods. it cant be too front and center and steal the show with catchy melodies and vocals when there is important dialogue going on, but then for example in the action car chase scene you can have a normal song with all that stuff. so how does electronic music fit into that? probably a movie that needs the feeling or mood most people associate when they hear electronic sounding music. for example in old sci fi or horror movies the theremin was used (that's considered electronic, right? or are we focusing on synthesizers?).

check out this article:
http://www.datatransmission.co.uk/v...spx?newsID=2773

dubstep in movies now? most people are excited by it, but i dont think its that far fetched because a lot of dubstep already sounds like movies. a lot of dubstep samples movies and uses typical organic movie soundtrack sounds too. but they also talk about how its not just daft punk being used for tron.

tron using electronic sounding music is not really that forward thinking or progressive minded. any sci fi movie using artificial or syntesized sounds i dont think is a real stretch or taking many chances. now a movie such as benjamin button with electronic syntesizer music, that i'd like to see. heh,

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Originally posted by stev�sto dubstep in movies now?

Oh yeah, some of it was used in my favourite Children of Men. Tunes like Anti War Dub sounded good as a soundtrack to not-so-distant, post apocalyptic future.

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Originally posted by SMC That is preposterous.

LOL at metal "not existing" in the '80s.

1980s was the decade of metal! What is up with people not knowing any music history?!

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles LOL at metal "not existing" in the '80s. 1980s was the decade of metal! What is up with people not knowing any music history?!

Yeah, it was huge. I personally don't think the 80s were the best years in metal, but it was an essential and crucial period in the evolution of the genre after its foundations were laid in the 70s.

Indie rock as well was practically born in the 80s when the post-punk movement started to branch out in different directions.

I don't think the '80s were the best either, for the most part, but there's no denying that they represented a peak in metal's popularity. Certainly here in the US anyway.

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Originally posted by paulandrews Oh yeah, some of it was used in my favourite Children of Men. Tunes like Anti War Dub sounded good as a soundtrack to not-so-distant, post apocalyptic future.

Yeah, I was really surprised to hear a bit of dubstep when I saw that movie upon release... like the Spaceape track in particular.

PS great mix for the genre competition, opened my eyes to some good music.

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